24" and 29" - different enough?

yes, definitely noticable, but get a big slick and short cranks on the
29er.

no idea on the gazz, first i've heard.

--
onelesscar

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my love as deep
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that gazz rumour has been going ever since i got in to unicycling,
nothing's ever come of it

--
kington99

Dave

- what a thoroughly post-modern subversion of the cycling genre -
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412 said:

When comparing the 24"*3 Gazz to normal 26" XC tyres the 24" is actually
bigger... (or at least roughly the same size, depending on which tire
you compare to).

How did you come to that conclusion? My mountain bike wheel/tyre has
significantly larger diameter than my 24x2.6 muni, even without bigger
than average tyres on the bike. I hear this quoted a lot, and I wonder
how people work it out. The difference isn't massive, but a 24 is not
bigger than a 26.

Either way, yes you will notice a difference, especially with shortish
cranks. I've been on the occasional muni ride with people on 29ers and
trying to keep up nearly made my legs fall off, while they were
pootling along happily.

It's also worth considering that there's more to it than outright
diameter. The 29er isn't just bigger, but with a lighter tyre than a 3"
downhill muni tyre it'll probably be quicker anyway, especially in
terms of acceleration.

John

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johnhimsworth

Never argue with an idiot; they drag you down to their level and then
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412 said:

Ps. Is it true that the Gazz 24*3.0 is discontinued? (Should one start
hoarding them...?)

Looks like it. But I don't know for sure. The current 'Nokian Tyres
web site' (http://www.suomityres.fi/specs.htm) does not list the 24x3
Gazzaloddi and hasn't for a while. At one time UDC bought up all the
remaining stock of the 24x3 Gazz tyres. I'm not sure if they're still
selling off from that stock or if more have been made since.

I don't think it's necessary to panic, although I did when the first
announcement that Nokian was discontinuing the 24x3 Gazz and bought up
a couple (this was a couple years ago). The Duro tyre that comes stock
on the KH is plenty good and is more maneuverable than the Gazz.
Though it has slightly less volume. It's less expensive. I may even
switch to it even though I have a few Gazz tyres left.

--
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johnhimsworth said:

How did you come to that conclusion? My mountain bike wheel/tyre has
significantly larger diameter than my 24x2.6 muni, even without bigger
than average tyres on the bike. I hear this quoted a lot, and I wonder
how people work it out. The difference isn't massive, but a 24 is not
bigger than a 26.

A quick measure of my 24x3 Gazz muni tyre gives a diameter of about
26"

A quick measure of my 26x2.1 Panaracer XC Pro MTB tyre gives a diameter
of about 26.5"

Those are quick measurements that I did about 1 minute ago and don't
take into account sitting on the unicycle or bike. They also don't
account for actual rolling distance with rider weight.

But with a 24x3 Gazz the unweighted diameter is just a bit less than
the diameter of a typical 26" XC MTB wheel. A 24x2.6 isn't as bit as
the Gazz 24x3.

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First, nice to hear that the Gazz ain't going anywhere, it's so lovely -
much nicer than the Duro/Halo IMHO.

Regarding the "24x3.0" being bigger than 26, I put them next to each
other and to my eye the Gazz appeared higher than the Hutchinson Spider
26x2.0. (I havn't really measured accurately, but the 24x3.0 looks to
be the same "height" as the Gazz 26x2.3.) As you say, the difference is
hardly massive, but it would depend greatly on the tire. (EDIT: Theres
is a "huge" difference in height when comparing a Gazz 3.0 with a
24x2.6 tire such as the the one that came stock on the KH XC version
last year.)

My thinking was that since 24"x.3"~26"x2.X" and 26"x2.X"~700c(aka 29er
when talkning mtb)x23mm" (my roadracing bike), there is a potential
that the radius/height/circumference (choose any) difference from my
KH24 compared to a KH29 would be to small to motivate having both.

Regarding getting a slick instead, would it make a big difference? (I
have a faint memory of my Hookworm compared to a Kenda 2.6 knobbly, but
it's indeed faint... also I would like to retain som terrain
capabilities if possible + the big apple (?) slick looks hideous. :-P)

There seems to be consensus on the issue of retrofitting 125mm
cranks...

Has anyone got a number on the rough % difference in speed, given the
leg speed? (Or is it perhaps one of those things that are better to try
for one self.)

--
412
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I have a KH29 with the 2.1" Kenda Klaw tire and 150mmcranks and an Onza
24with the Duro 3" tire and 165mmcranks. I now have a KH24 on order
with the Duro 3" tire. I am replacing my Onza only because I don't like
the frame design. the KH frame curves in at the crown saving you many
burises on the insides of the knees or catching of the shin guards on
the crown. However this is not your question.

On the KH29 I average 16 to 18MPH and on the Onza I average 12 to
14MPH. I go riding a lot on trails with a friend who has the
odometer/speedometer on his bike. That is a 40 to 50% increase in
speed! The 24 is much better for hard muni. The 29 is much better for
road riding and cross country on dirt roads or light muni. The 150mm
cranks do make the 29 much harder to balance and manuever. If I were
riding only on the road I would probably get the 125mm cranks. However
once you go off road and need to do sharp turns and have any kind of
manueverability and to deal with surprises such as sand patches and mud
puddles or rocks and gravel keep the 150mm cranks.

I actually want to try to put the 165mm cranks on the 29 to see what
kind of an effect they would have on speed and balance.

Unicorn

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Unicorn
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Unicorn said:

On the KH29 I average 16 to 18MPH

:eek: [censored]... are you sure? I consider myself fairly quick and
I usually average no more than 10mph cross-country. Even my top speed
isn't as high as that (I don't think I've been faster than 15mph even
in a sprint).

On a smooth trail I reckon I could probably keep up 12mph over a couple
of miles, but 16-18 is incredible! Are you using very short cranks and
only riding smooth trails? Still impressive even then.

Rob

EDIT: Just noticed you said 150mm cranks.

--
rob.northcott

'Dartmoor Muni Weekend'
(http://www.unicyclist.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46116) - Last
weekend in May 2006
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He's got a jet engine attached to his back.

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ivan

Read me! thank you.
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412 said:

My thinking was that since 24"x.3"~26"x2.X" and 26"x2.X"~700c(aka 29er
when talkning mtb)x23mm" (my roadracing bike), there is a potential
that the radius/height/circumference (choose any) difference from my
KH24 compared to a KH29 would be to small to motivate having both.

Regarding getting a slick instead, would it make a big difference? (I
have a faint memory of my Hookworm compared to a Kenda 2.6 knobbly, but
it's indeed faint... also I would like to retain som terrain
capabilities if possible + the big apple (?) slick looks hideous. :-P)

Personally, I love the Big Apple, including for off-road. The only
thing it doesn't do well is deal with loose surfaces. And the
difference between a 29er with a Big Apple and a 24x3" with a Gazz is
enormous--even the difference between a 29er and a 26x3". Diameter is
only one of the many aspects of tire behavior, and the 29er behaves
light years better on roads than any of the 3" tires.

--
tholub
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I've been riding a Nimbus 24" Muni for the last month, but mostly on the
street. I just ordered the KH 29" to replace the Muni for street and
light trails riding, but will keep riding the 24 for off-road muni
until I break it. Then it's time for the KH 24!

--
ahollow
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I'm in the process of discovering just how far I can push things, Muni
wise, on a KH 29er. I need to do a few more 29er rides, and get the
gear dialed in (currently using a Nokian heavy duty 26 X 3 DH tube,
Kenda Nevegal 29 X 2.2 tire and 175 dirt jumper cranks) before I know
enough to post anything really worthwhile.

For the time being--On freeride and intermediate tech trails the 29er
is vastly superior and WAY faster than a 24. But once it gets steep
and rocky--hold the hell on because at low PSI that tire folds over
like crazy (no true DH 29er tires exist, only single ply sidewall
tires--in June the first DH tires arrive) and the big 29 wheel can run
away from you in a flash! Right now the beggest liability in doing 29er
tech Muni is the lack of a DH tire. With what we got, keeping a high
pressue keeps the tire on the rim (this last weekend I folded the tire
right off the rim on a steep rocky bit) but makes drops and rocky
rolling very difficult.

But I'm still experimenting . . .

In a word, 29er for freeride and up to advanced intermediate Muni.
Beyond that and you're in for a very wild ride.

JL

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vivalargo
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Would a brake help with the steep descents on a KH29? Especially
running shorter cranks, it seems the brake could help stabilize the
ride.

Guess I should start looking for that, too. Any good vendors and
sources for the complete brake setup? (I'll also do a SeaRcH later)
🙂

--
ahollow
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ahollow said:

Would a brake help with the steep descents on a KH29? Especially
running shorter cranks, it seems the brake could help stabilize the
ride.

Guess I should start looking for that, too. Any good vendors and
sources for the complete brake setup? (I'll also do a SeaRcH later)
🙂

Contextualizing: When vivalargo says "steep downhill," he means, "crazy
[censored] that people from South Jersey wouldn't even identify as ridable."
A 29er is fine on cross-country downhills without a brake.

--
tholub
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Unless you're going to be riding serious off-road (like John and Josh)
with your 29er, you may want to consider saving some money and going
square taper.

My Logic: With square taper, you can use a variety of inexpensive
cranks, maybe 170's for steep MUni, 102's for flat road, and a whole
bunch in between. With the KH, your crank arm options are limited to
125,150,137 and165 (all good options, but no 102,110). Also, if you buy
all four lengths, you're out a good chunk of change @ $76 a pair)
Decent square taper cranks can be had for $25 or less.

Of course if you're planning on serious hops and drops, go with the KH.

--
mscalisi
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Yeah, tholub, South Jersey is pretty flat! I think I live on top of one
of the only "hills" here.

Thanks for the feedback. I'll wait until I get the uni and then see
what I need to add to it.

--
ahollow
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ahollow said:

Yeah, tholub, South Jersey is pretty flat! I think I live on top of one
of the only "hills" here.

I grew up in North Jersey, canoed in the Pine Barrens, summered "down
the shore." There's probably some decent technical MUni up north, but
down south I'm sure you've got mostly cross country stuff.

--
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Just brought a pair of 90mm cranks for my 29' i hope there sooo speedy😄

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MY SELF AND I WILL NOT CARE AND I WILL DO IT AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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whoa! you have a 29 footer? pics please!
😄

--
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"Thats my favorite thing about unicycling, I can eat oreos while
riding!" ~Me

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