Racing titanium?

Hogan said:

Does anyone have experience racing with titanium frames? Pros/cons, etc. I am a newbie and in the market for a new frame and have not seen many or is carbon the only way to go?
Thanks

I've raced Ti. Decent enough. I personally love a full AL frame. It gives me the utmost in power transfer when sprinting and climbing.

Ti has been out of "style" lately probably because carbon is coming down in price. I ride/race carbon and personally I like it a lot more than my aluminum bike. However, it was not a very high grade aluminum. I have heard that high grade aluminum can be very nice to race on. I know The Liquigas riders race on full aluminum bikes (Bianchi). I bet you could find some pretty cheap Ti bikes on ebay because they are on the "going out". Right now you see more alu and carbon than Ti. I'd highly recommend riding everything before buying though.

Thanks for the thoughts. I was at the LBS and was steered away from Ti due to "fatigue and the BB getting soft over time" and directed toward carbon. I had not heard of this and personally do not believe it.

Litespeeds & Merlins are nice Ti bikes. I also have been looking at Ti bikes and I got to speak to someone from Litespeed. Both brands are manufactured in same facility. But its quite expensive. However, I do think they are outstanding bikes. Also if you are a heavy rider, it could be too flex.

Seven produces nice Ti bikes. Also expensive.

Independent Fabrication produces Ti 'custom' frame. Which it would probably run you about 5G for just frame and maybe fork. If I had money to wipe my ass with, then probably this is what I would get. But that's just me.

sooray02 said:

Litespeeds & Merlins are nice Ti bikes. I also have been looking at Ti bikes and I got to speak to someone from Litespeed. Both brands are manufactured in same facility. But its quite expensive. However, I do think they are outstanding bikes. Also if you are a heavy rider, it could be too flex.

Seven produces nice Ti bikes. Also expensive.

Independent Fabrication produces Ti 'custom' frame. Which it would probably run you about 5G for just frame and maybe fork. If I had money to wipe my ass with, then probably this is what I would get. But that's just me.

Don't forget that Lynskey is back in biz now (the original family that started Litespeed). Their Ti frames look pretty interesting to me, with decent pricing too. They are coming to talk and show off frames at our next club meeting in March. I may come back from the presentation needing a custom Ti bike 🙂

New website: www.lynskeyperformance.com

Hogan said:

I was at the LBS and was steered away from Ti due to "fatigue and the BB getting soft over time" and directed toward carbon.

Sounds like the LBS guy's head is going soft over time. 🙄

Any well-built Ti frame will outlast any other frame material, all else being equal. Ask Mr. LBS what he does when he gets a gouge or crack in a CF. Then ask him the last time he saw a cracked or gouged Ti, other than on a poor weld.

Hogan said:

Thanks for the thoughts. I was at the LBS and was steered away from Ti due to "fatigue and the BB getting soft over time" and directed toward carbon. I had not heard of this and personally do not believe it.

🙂

I laugh because I was told the same thing ("getting soft over time"😉 about carbon fiber when a salesperson was trying to sell me a Ti frame. I rode as many bikes in my price range as I could and went with the one that felt best to me. Turns out it was a carbon frame and I have over 5000 miles on it with no complaints. My only advice is be careful what/who you listen to. Research is good, but nothing is more important than getting on a lot of bikes and riding them!

rudycyclist said:

... Ti bikes on ebay because they are on the "going out". Right now you see more alu and carbon than Ti.

Don't you think that's related to the cost of bikes using these material?

rudycyclist said:

Ti has been out of "style" lately probably because carbon is coming down in price. I ride/race carbon and personally I like it a lot more than my aluminum bike. However, it was not a very high grade aluminum. I have heard that high grade aluminum can be very nice to race on. I know The Liquigas riders race on full aluminum bikes (Bianchi). I bet you could find some pretty cheap Ti bikes on ebay because they are on the "going out". Right now you see more alu and carbon than Ti. I'd highly recommend riding everything before buying though.

"Out of style?" How do you figure? Moots is producing frames at capacity. Lynskey is back in business. Serotta is just as popular as ever, as is Seven. Indpendent Fab. is busy. All these makers are pumpin' out Ti bikes, even with the increase in the cost of Ti.

Apparently Ti's not as "out of style" as you claim. For the record, Liquigas is on Cannondale bikes, this year. Some will be riding System Six bikes, some will be riding Synapse frames. Neither are full aluminum. You should check your facts.

dhk2 said:

Don't forget that Lynskey is back in biz now (the original family that started Litespeed). Their Ti frames look pretty interesting to me, with decent pricing too. They are coming to talk and show off frames at our next club meeting in March. I may come back from the presentation needing a custom Ti bike 🙂

New website: www.lynskeyperformance.com

Yes. I heard of it. My LBS guy told me about it and couldn't think of the name. Thanks for reminding me.

Every time the question about Ti or Carbon or Ali comes up the same old [censored] comes outa the closet. The reason Ti bikes started to loose favour is that Ti carrodes but youll find that modern Ti manufacturers have come up with ways to Get around this, Carbon is great till you crash it and scratch the hell outa your frame, ali is great too and cheap but not as comfortable. Go with what feels best to you. Personally i still ride a steel frame and i just love when some idiot tries to tell me im stupid.😄 Theory has it that a Ti bike can be made more rigid?

I have a friend that rides a 2006 Lightspeed Vortex and seems to be very happy with it. Being a bit heavier and yet still a decent climber he has not complained at all about flex.

It seems that the frame is rigid in design with a diamond shaped top tube and elliptical tubes in other areas.

My friend paid twice what I paid for my six13, but if I had the cash I would drive up the road about an hour and get custom fitted for a Lynskey Ti at his shop and add a Ti to my collection.

If I get the $$ for Ti it will be a Moot rigormootis as I need to upgrade my mt. bike.

Insaneclimber said:

Every time the question about Ti or Carbon or Ali comes up the same old [censored] comes outa the closet.

True. But this...

Insaneclimber said:

The reason Ti bikes started to loose favour is that Ti carrodes but youll find that modern Ti manufacturers have come up with ways to Get around this,

On what planet is that happening? 😕 I've seen a "corroded" Ti frame exactly...never. I know a guy that's got an 11-year old Ti that was ridden constantly and it looks as good as new.

Insaneclimber said:

Go with what feels best to you. Personally i still ride a steel frame...

Agree there also, you gotta go with what works best for you ride-wise. Nothing at all wrong with steel - it's still the standard against which all others are judged, and for good reason. My #1 rig is steel, and I could not give a sh!t less what anyone thinks of it.

But the OT is: "Does anyone have experience racing with titanium frames?" So maybe we should stick to that.

Wurm said:

On what planet is that happening? 😕 I've seen a "corroded" Ti frame exactly...never. I know a guy that's got an 11-year old Ti that was ridden constantly and it looks as good as new.

It's possible this poster was referring to the corrosion of aluminum parts in a TI frame. This definitely can happen. I removed the BB from an old TI frame to find the threads of the BB completely corroded.

This can be avoided easily though by using a copper based lubricant on the threads of the aluminum parts that screw into the frame. This prevents the oxidization of the aluminum. Remove, clean parts and reapply once per year and you'll never have the problem.

This same "old" TI frame I bought has now been built up as my #1 road bike and I happily race it. It's not quite as stiff as the top carbon frames out there (cervelo carbon solist comes to mind) but it's stiff enough. If it's built properly, I'm sure you can get almost as stiff a frame in TI as you can in alu or carbon.

PAD

alienator said:

"Out of style?" How do you figure? Moots is producing frames at capacity. Lynskey is back in business. Serotta is just as popular as ever, as is Seven. Indpendent Fab. is busy. All these makers are pumpin' out Ti bikes, even with the increase in the cost of Ti.

Apparently Ti's not as "out of style" as you claim. For the record, Liquigas is on Cannondale bikes, this year. Some will be riding System Six bikes, some will be riding Synapse frames. Neither are full aluminum. You should check your facts.

Go to a race and what do you see? More alu and CF than Ti. Agree or disagree? That's what I see at my races anyway. Sorry, the Liquigas team used to ride a Bianchi with CF fork and seat stays with an alu main frame. My point was that even pros ride alu.

[quote="Felt_Rider"]I have a friend that rides a 2006 Lightspeed Vortex and seems to be very happy with it. Being a bit heavier and yet still a decent climber he has not complained at all about flex.
QUOTE]

So I've been reading reviews on 2006 Litespeed Ghisallo & Vortex, and some of the owners comaplined with their bikes. They said it wobbles, the vertical compliance sucks, and it flex. Litespeed claims that Ghisallo medium frame weighs at 770g and maybe it's too light for some of the bigger riders. Also when I spoke to a guy from Litespeed, he said "We are making contant innovation on our bikes," but didn't answer those questions that I had: wobbles and vertical compliance: Because those review were based on 'opinions'. Then, he actually recommended CR Works by Merlins over Litespeeds, since, like I mentioned earlier, they produce both brands in same facility (I guess it's owned by the same people).

padawan said:

It's possible this poster was referring to the corrosion of aluminum parts in a TI frame. This definitely can happen. I removed the BB from an old TI frame to find the threads of the BB completely corroded.

Yes, it's possible he was referring to Al parts on a Ti frame, but no mention was made of Al interacting: "...Ti carrodes but youll find that modern Ti manufacturers have come up with ways to Get around this..."

Let's try to keep the snake oil barkers from taking over the show, eh?

padawan said:

This can be avoided easily though by using a copper based lubricant on the threads of the aluminum parts that screw into the frame. This prevents the oxidization of the aluminum. Remove, clean parts and reapply once per year and you'll never have the problem.

If someone has a Ti anything and doesn't know that, he/she deserves what they get (Ti-Al interaction). But thanks for that helpful household hint.

A cheap straight, round tube AL bike will ride totally different than a high end, ovalized tube, wishbone seatstay AL bike (such as a C'dale CAAD8). And the huge plus is that it is going to be far cheaper than a comparably equipped TI bike. There is a big factor being personal preference and I don't want to get into a debate of one material vs, another, but just wanted to add my two cents that the old adage of "aluminum gives a harsh ride" really isn't accurate anymore.

A properly welded titanium frame will last the life of the rider. That local bike shop guy was just trying to pawn off the flavor-of-the-month carbon frame on you. If you can afford Titanium, then it's a great choice.