Disappointed

Care to name and shame this bloke?

If you feel that you have to pursue it, start by talking with the athlete of course. No matter what they say or how they choose to react, you will have done the right thing by allowing them the chance to answer your accusation directly.

Anything short of that wouldn't be right on your part in my humble opinion.

My experience in all such matters as this is and has always been to mind my own frikkin business. People make all kinds of crazy choices with their lives, almost none of which has anything to do with me and mine.

Good luck with whatever you decide. I agree with you too that people will many times disappoint.

Alex Simmons said:

I discovered recently that a competitor in my age category is a regular user of HGH (the expensive treatment as administered by a doctor, not the internet [censored]), supposedly for its "anti-aging" properties. This competitor is world class level masters athlete (as defined by actual results).

Now I have no reason to doubt they are a fine and would probably be a world class athlete sans HGH. But it is disappointing.

I did a bit of reading on HGH - while it is listed as a banned substance by WADA, it seems it is difficult to detect its use.

What experiences have others had when they have learned something similar?

In the not so distant past, I was referred to a doctor for a neurological issue. During my ~2 hour session with him we discussed my lifestyle and involvement in competitive cycling. At the end of our session he brought me a brochure for a clinic he was involved with that offered hormone therapy to fight the effects of aging, aka anti-aging therapy. I was being handed the opportunity to legally do testosterone and hgh. LOL! I hadn't even asked for it. It just fell in my lap. I told him I'd let him know if I wanted to do it, but I have no intention of pursuing it. But I do believe there are many master racers with more money than time to train who are using this as a shortcut to satisfy their depraved need to win. Se la vie. Winning has never been that important to me. Racing just gives me focus for my riding and lifestyle, but nothing more. So if anyone else is doing this kind of thing, I don't really care. I just turn away from them.

rule62 said:

If you feel that you have to pursue it, start by talking with the athlete of course. No matter what they say or how they choose to react, you will have done the right thing by allowing them the chance to answer your accusation directly.

Anything short of that wouldn't be right on your part in my humble opinion.

My experience in all such matters as this is and has always been to mind my own frikkin business. People make all kinds of crazy choices with their lives, almost none of which has anything to do with me and mine.

Good luck with whatever you decide. I agree with you too that people will many times disappoint.

Reasonable advice. I certainly won't be naming them. If I ever did anything it would be to approach them with it first. However there would seem to be little to gain with that.

This is just Masters racing after all, simply a handicap form of racing....

Alex Simmons said:

Reasonable advice. I certainly won't be naming them. If I ever did anything it would be to approach them with it first. However there would seem to be little to gain with that.

This is just Masters racing after all, simply a handicap form of racing....

Good for you.

If you do approach that person you may want to ask them this question since it will not be a condemning question. It will seem as if you are asking out of curiosity, but it may plant a seed that may have this person ponder a little.

"Do you plan on staying on hormone replacement therapy for the rest of your life?"

I have a pretty good amount of experience in this area, but this new money making scheme that some doctors are using for promoting the anti-aging health values of HRT has me thinking more deeply about the subject. On the surface I think about how hard it is for a younger individual to get their natural hormones active after a cycle of PED's even with drugs like HCG so it will be even that much tougher for an older man to get those glands working again when they are already diminishing. It almost puts the person at that age in a position to use the rest of their life. If the person stops their health may drop significantly not to mention the psychological impact like depression. Also consider that older males have a greater tendency for prostrate problems so enhanced hormones may increase the risks.

I know of someone (non-competitor) at the moment that is on HRT from a physician and the cost for the GH, designer testosterone and estrogen blocker is about $500 (US) per month and is not covered by insurance. The GH requires at least two injections per day. I am not sure of the injection rate for the testosterone.

This HRT is something so new that there has not been a lot of discussion regarding my thoughts, but I believe I am on track for my concerns of long term HRT.

Felt_Rider said:

Good for you.

If you do approach that person you may want to ask them this question since it will not be a condemning question. It will seem as if you are asking out of curiosity, but it may plant a seed that may have this person ponder a little.

"Do you plan on staying on hormone replacement therapy for the rest of your life?"

I have a pretty good amount of experience in this area, but this new money making scheme that some doctors are using for promoting the anti-aging health values of HRT has me thinking more deeply about the subject. On the surface I think about how hard it is for a younger individual to get their natural hormones active after a cycle of PED's even with drugs like HCG so it will be even that much tougher for an older man to get those glands working again when they are already diminishing. It almost puts the person at that age in a position to use the rest of their life. If the person stops their health may drop significantly not to mention the psychological impact like depression. Also consider that older males have a greater tendency for prostrate problems so enhanced hormones may increase the risks.

I know of someone (non-competitor) at the moment that is on HRT from a physician and the cost for the GH, designer testosterone and estrogen blocker is about $500 (US) per month and is not covered by insurance. The GH requires at least two injections per day. I am not sure of the injection rate for the testosterone.

This HRT is something so new that there has not been a lot of discussion regarding my thoughts, but I believe I am on track for my concerns of long term HRT.

Yeah, thanks. Two issues in this instance.

If they were a friend, I'd say something in private. They're not.

If I did say something, then that would reveal how I know and that has other implications for the source (not me).

I see and that makes it tough when you know something like this and have to keep it discrete because you know they have a potential advantage against other competitors.

I used to get some grief from concerned friends back when I used, but it did no good to talk to me back then. I was determined to use regardless and I was competing in a sport that it was not considered cheating, but considered necessary and was rewarded by the federation.

The only athletes that I seem to be able to console are those who are in some sort of trouble with regards to PED's.

Fingers crossed that the bloke will get a complication of his HGH injection. That day may well come... 😉

In the meantime, ride on!

Alex Simmons said:

I discovered recently that a competitor in my age category is a regular user of HGH (the expensive treatment as administered by a doctor, not the internet [censored]), supposedly for its "anti-aging" properties. This competitor is world class level masters athlete (as defined by actual results).

Now I have no reason to doubt they are a fine and would probably be a world class athlete sans HGH. But it is disappointing.

I did a bit of reading on HGH - while it is listed as a banned substance by WADA, it seems it is difficult to detect its use.

What experiences have others had when they have learned something similar?

In triathlon you can compete at a high level before having to struggle against drug users. But still. It exists.

I had a athlete who made the choice to give up on his Olympic dream because of this (http://www.sebastienlaflamme.com/resultats.php). Student in medecine, he made the (tough) choice of staying clean. In his last attempt, he did 64th in the World Championships (which was good enough for a spot), but Canada would only send you if you were ranked top 125 in the world, he was 150th 🙁

Theres a bloke, who turns, I think 45 this year that is reputed to train for specific events and does bugger all inbetween, has even been seen racing in D grade on the off period.

2 + 2 = 4 ? Do you think we are talking about the same person.

Alex Simmons said:

Yeah, thanks. Two issues in this instance.

If they were a friend, I'd say something in private. They're not.

If I did say something, then that would reveal how I know and that has other implications for the source (not me).

I don't know Alex, I've personally heard the odd rumor and whether they are true or not is difficult to say. At the end of the day I can race and whether I do well or not, I can go home and look in the mirror and know anything I do is clean. If I was supplementing hard work with banned substances then anything I achieve is (to me personally) worthless.

If you were racing for a living and this persons actions had the effect of taking food off your table, I say pursue it. If as you say it's simply recreational racing (even if it is at the state and national level) I'd just forget it and use it to motivate yourself. But ymmv.

--brett

mikesbytes said:

Do you think we are talking about the same person.

I doubt it very much.

Brett has a good point. In the end he will live 10 years less than you, so who's really the winner.

Just subtract him from the results. Its a bit like a bloke riding D grade when they should be riding B grade.

To compete in NSW vets power lifting, you have to declare a schedule of where and when you train and at some point they will turn up while you are training to do a ramdom drug test.

sogood said:

Fingers crossed that the bloke will get a complication of his HGH injection. That day may well come... 😉

In the meantime, ride on!

I wish no ill will on someone who by all accounts seems a pretty decent guy.

None of this stops me trying to be my best by training smart and training hard, nor will it impact my enjoyment of competition.

My other sport is golf and it's ridiculous how some players pad their handicap by shooting high scores until tournament time and then they magically "find" their game. Cycling at the amateur and masters levels actually seems relatively free of cheating. There are always those who will do whatever they can to gain an advantage. I sometimes wonder how they live with themselves, but I guess that's their business. Personally, I don't lose any sleep over these people. If that's how they want to go through life, so be it.

Alex Simmons said:

I wish no ill will on someone who by all accounts seems a pretty decent guy.

Understand. But there's a risk-benefit profile to any pharmaceutic use. On the female side, HRT (Estrogen agonist) definitely has benefits for most, but some will increase their risk for breast cancer and others.

I guess the question is, is this guy's use of HGH driven by his competitive cycling activities or by genuine health reasons?

sogood said:

I guess the question is, is this guy's use of HGH driven by his competitive cycling activities or by genuine health reasons?

Don't know but possibly neither. Quite possibly it's just vanity and the athletic impacts are a handy side effect.

I don't fully understand how this substance works and what it would do for athletic performance. Presumably speed up the process of improving one's power/weight ratio.

Alex Simmons said:

Don't know but possibly neither. Quite possibly it's just vanity and the athletic impacts are a handy side effect.

I don't fully understand how this substance works and what it would do for athletic performance. Presumably speed up the process of improving one's power/weight ratio.

Yes, there's definitely a dose-response relationship. At higher dose, he WILL suffer in due course!

I suspect he is getting it at a rather low dose (similar to Estrogen therapy). But it would be interesting to find out just what dose range he is on, and if the effect at that dose range can really translates to improved athletic performance?

Alex Simmons said:

Don't know but possibly neither. Quite possibly it's just vanity and the athletic impacts are a handy side effect.

I don't fully understand how this substance works and what it would do for athletic performance. Presumably speed up the process of improving one's power/weight ratio.

There's a fairly interesting story about various performance enhancing drugs in this article about a guy who experimented with several of them outside.away.com200311 drug test 1.htmlOpen ↗. In the end, this guy decided to ride clean.