Velodrome

There is nothing I like more than when someone who has been involved in
cycling longer than I have been alive turns to me in front of a crowd
of people and asks if his English pronunciation of a technical French
term is correct.

It's one thing when someone who doesn't know me very well and hasn't
known me for very long does something like that. It's quite another
when someone who remembers when I thought my lone 800 rmb bike was
expensive asks me a highly technical question regarding how things are
done with regards to bikes, bike shops, bikes as a sport, or racing in
other countries.

I won't go into great detail regarding why one of my friends has come
up with the idea that what Haikou really needs is a velodrome. For
starters, even knowing all the people involved, and knowing all the
background involved, it's just way too complicated. Lets just say that
it isn't quite as harebrained as it sounds at first gasp.

The harebrained part of it was asking me how much I think it should
cost to build a simple velodrome. Just a guesstimate. Based on my
knowledge of how much something like that might cost in the US.
Notwithstanding the fact that I've never even _seen_ a velodrome let
alone ridden in one and have no connections with the construction
business in any country, my friend thought it was perfectly reasonable
to ask me this question.

I'll cut him a bit of slack since this particular person was introduced
to me by way of the Tour de Hainan. And, so far as I know, he wasn't
actually present on any of the occasions where I had to ask one of the
comissaires the correct word in English cycling jargon since, if I knew
it at all, I only knew it in Chinese.

But, hey, I've got the internet... and the internet has the
rec.bicycles hierarchy of newsgroups which is an amazing resource for
finding out obscure bits of information that may or may not be
tangentially related to cycling.

Anyone have a ballpark figure idea of how much it costs to build a
simple velodrome?

I'm pretty sure the best guesstimate my friend currently has is one
that has a few too many zeroes and comes from his making the mistake of
asking someone on the Olympic Committee. That sort of person is not
only likely to have a wildly different conception of 'simple' they are
also likely to figure in the cost of buying land in one of the most
expensive cities in the world.

-M

Quoted message said:

Anyone have a ballpark figure idea of how much it costs to build a
simple velodrome?

Dale Hughes built the velodrome used in the Atlanta Olympics, among
several others. He was interviewed by fixed gear fever. One of the
questions is quoted below.

From
http://www.fixedgearfever.com/modules.php?name=News&file=print&sid=501

"What would you say to someone who wants to have a velodrome in their
city?

I would tell them to get a piece of paper, write their name on the top
of the list and pledge $1,000, to be collected within 18 months. Then
get 99 others to do the same. If a group can get 100 pledges I am
confident I can help them get a velodrome. The land and the balance of
the funding are quite doable. The Velodrome at Bloomer Park is an
example for other communities that they can succeed. In fact, our
Director of Parks in Rochester Hills will talk to any other
community's government officials and tell them of our structure and
success, send me an email at [email hidden]"

On 12/24/06 8:26 AM, in article
[email hidden],

Quoted post said:

There is nothing I like more than when someone who has been involved in
cycling longer than I have been alive turns to me in front of a crowd
of people and asks if his English pronunciation of a technical French
term is correct.

It's one thing when someone who doesn't know me very well and hasn't
known me for very long does something like that. It's quite another
when someone who remembers when I thought my lone 800 rmb bike was
expensive asks me a highly technical question regarding how things are
done with regards to bikes, bike shops, bikes as a sport, or racing in
other countries.

I won't go into great detail regarding why one of my friends has come
up with the idea that what Haikou really needs is a velodrome. For
starters, even knowing all the people involved, and knowing all the
background involved, it's just way too complicated. Lets just say that
it isn't quite as harebrained as it sounds at first gasp.

The harebrained part of it was asking me how much I think it should
cost to build a simple velodrome. Just a guesstimate. Based on my
knowledge of how much something like that might cost in the US.
Notwithstanding the fact that I've never even _seen_ a velodrome let
alone ridden in one and have no connections with the construction
business in any country, my friend thought it was perfectly reasonable
to ask me this question.

I'll cut him a bit of slack since this particular person was introduced
to me by way of the Tour de Hainan. And, so far as I know, he wasn't
actually present on any of the occasions where I had to ask one of the
comissaires the correct word in English cycling jargon since, if I knew
it at all, I only knew it in Chinese.

But, hey, I've got the internet... and the internet has the
rec.bicycles hierarchy of newsgroups which is an amazing resource for
finding out obscure bits of information that may or may not be
tangentially related to cycling.

Anyone have a ballpark figure idea of how much it costs to build a
simple velodrome?

I'm pretty sure the best guesstimate my friend currently has is one
that has a few too many zeroes and comes from his making the mistake of
asking someone on the Olympic Committee. That sort of person is not
only likely to have a wildly different conception of 'simple' they are
also likely to figure in the cost of buying land in one of the most
expensive cities in the world.

-M

Unless you get a direct response from a velodrome owner or builder here is
one path for you to potentially follow:

Here is the web site of a velodrome in Frisco, TX with which I am familiar -
http://www.superdrome.com/
They provide links to the email addresses for several of the people who are
in charge of the facility. I would suggest that you email one of them
directly and explain your circumstances and ask your question.

The reason that I suggest this particular facility is because, while it is
an 'official' sized velodrome, it is very much a public facility largely run
by volunteers and is in daily use. It is not some stadium sized facility
just used for Olympic style events.
Chuck

Quoted message said:

Anyone have a ballpark figure idea of how much it costs to build a
simple velodrome?

There was news of somebody in Somerset UK wanting to get planning
permission to build one on his farm.
http://www.fisheroutdoor.co.uk/public/index.php/news.php?action=date&id=200508

Quoted message said:

Anyone have a ballpark figure idea of how much it costs to build a
simple velodrome?

London, Ontario, Canada has a newish velodrome - their website is here:
http://forestcityvelodrome.ca/

Quoted message said:

Anyone have a ballpark figure idea of how much it costs to build a
simple velodrome?

I don't think anyone has ever built a simple velodrome (or "built a
velodrome, simply"😉 <g>.

You need "comps" (comparables); maybe there aren't any for your
location, speaking to land buying and use regulations, materials costs,
local building expertise. I'm not saying there aren't; I have no idea,
personally.

Suggested reading material:

http://www.velodromes.com/index.htm

The Koln v-drome, for instance, was built in stages, per available
financing. --D-y

Quoted message said:

Anyone have a ballpark figure idea of how much it costs to build a
simple velodrome?

Some time ago I was sitting at an airport with my laptop, real bored
and not wanting to do any work, so I started wondering if I could build
a velodrome on my land. First I Googled info on velodromes, then on
concrete. Below is the complete text of what I wrote. My $20K
estimate is likely very low.

Tom

********* Beginning of Toms Velodrome.txt ********************

The San Diego Velodrome is 333.33 meters. That length is figured from
a line around the velodrome 20 cm above the base of the track.

Another standard size is 250 meters. There seem to be a lot of them
in the world. The smallest is 125 meters (8 laps per km).

A 250 meter velodrome will have 43 degree slope on the ends and 13
degree on ths straights. A 125 meter velodrome will have 50 degree
slopes on the ends.

I couldn't find any info on the aspect ratio but I did find a 250
meter velodrome that was 115 m x 55 m external and 100 m x 40 m on
the infield. That means the track is 7.5 meters wide.

The velodrome external dimensions are then 125.7 yards (377 feet) by
60.15 yards (180.5 feet). Half that size for a 125 meter velodrome.

By simple trig the hole in the ground to create a velodrome with a
50% banked end would be 6.28 meters (6.87 yards, 20.6 feet). Wow!

To determine how much concrete this would be I have to calculate the
area of a 250 meter velodrome track. The area of the straights is
easy.
Each straight is 60 m long (115 m - 55 m) and 7.5 m wide. And there
are two of them. So 2 x 60 m x 7.5 m = 900 m^2 (1076.4 yds^2).

The ends can be considered two concentric circles. The outer one has
a radius of 55 m and the inner has a 40 m radius. The desired area
is the area of the outer circle minus the area of the inner circle.
So (pi x 27.5^2) - (pi x 20^2) = 1119.2 m^2 (1338.5 yrd^2).

So the total is 2019.2 m^2 (2414.94 yrd^2). The actual surface area
is larger than that because this calculation doesn't consider the
banks.

I've seen estimates of concrete driveways at $10/yrd^2. That would
make
the 250 meter velodrome cost $20K. A velodrome wouldn't have to
withstand
the weight of autos but it would have to be built with a sharp slope
and
built solid enough to avoid cracks.

********* End of Toms Velodrome.txt ********************

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted post said:

I won't go into great detail regarding why one of my friends has come
up with the idea that what Haikou really needs is a velodrome. For
starters, even knowing all the people involved, and knowing all the
background involved, it's just way too complicated. Lets just say that
it isn't quite as harebrained as it sounds at first gasp.

Quoted message said:

Anyone have a ballpark figure idea of how much it costs to build a
simple velodrome?

The short answer is somewhere between $0 and $15 million.

The 250m ADT Event Center in LA was recently built for the latter cost.
It is a full-on "host world championships" (which it already has done)
facility, and it's an indoor facility.

http://www.homedepotcenter.com/venues/customadtevent.sps?iType=4176&icust
ompageid=6773

The Forest City velodrome in London, Ontario, Canada was recently
constructed at a cost of about $200,000:

http://bikeportland.org/2006/12/05/steve-brown-has-visions-of-a-new-velod
rome/

Note that while that's an indoor facility, they cheated: the building
already existed; it's a former hockey rink. Forest City is also a
138-metre track, which makes it one of the shortest tracks in the world.

http://forestcityvelodrome.ca/trackhistory.html

The Forest City 'drome probably also sets the rough cost for an outdoor
track, too.

The Burnaby Velodrome, constructed in 1997, is an indoor facility with
an air-supported roof. If you want a gorily-detailed history of its
construction, I'll put you in contact with the club president and
archivist. He has a pretty good handle on the construction process,
which was unusually ugly for this track, but it has more or less worked
out now.

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

Quoted message said:

Anyone have a ballpark figure idea of how much it costs to build a
simple velodrome?

http://members.allstream.net/~junek/index.html

Bob Schwartz

Quoted message said:

I won't go into great detail regarding why one of my friends has come
up with the idea that what Haikou really needs is a velodrome.

Here are pages on the one in NYC:

http://www.nycgovparks.org/sub_things_to_do/facilities/af_cycling.html
http://www.bikecult.com/works/kissenatrack.html
http://www.kissena.info/track/

Don <www.donwiss.com/joyrides> (e-mail link at page bottom).

Quoted message said:

There is nothing I like more than when someone who has been involved in
cycling longer than I have been alive turns to me in front of a crowd
of people and asks if his English pronunciation of a technical French
term is correct.

It's one thing when someone who doesn't know me very well and hasn't
known me for very long does something like that. It's quite another
when someone who remembers when I thought my lone 800 rmb bike was
expensive asks me a highly technical question regarding how things are
done with regards to bikes, bike shops, bikes as a sport, or racing in
other countries.

I won't go into great detail regarding why one of my friends has come
up with the idea that what Haikou really needs is a velodrome. For
starters, even knowing all the people involved, and knowing all the
background involved, it's just way too complicated. Lets just say that
it isn't quite as harebrained as it sounds at first gasp.

The harebrained part of it was asking me how much I think it should
cost to build a simple velodrome. Just a guesstimate. Based on my
knowledge of how much something like that might cost in the US.
Notwithstanding the fact that I've never even _seen_ a velodrome let
alone ridden in one and have no connections with the construction
business in any country, my friend thought it was perfectly reasonable
to ask me this question.

I'll cut him a bit of slack since this particular person was introduced
to me by way of the Tour de Hainan. And, so far as I know, he wasn't
actually present on any of the occasions where I had to ask one of the
comissaires the correct word in English cycling jargon since, if I knew
it at all, I only knew it in Chinese.

But, hey, I've got the internet... and the internet has the
rec.bicycles hierarchy of newsgroups which is an amazing resource for
finding out obscure bits of information that may or may not be
tangentially related to cycling.

Anyone have a ballpark figure idea of how much it costs to build a
simple velodrome?

Two locals here did the math and a simple, concrete, 250 meter, into
the ground velodrome is about $500,000.

Quoted message said:

I'm pretty sure the best guesstimate my friend currently has is one
that has a few too many zeroes and comes from his making the mistake of
asking someone on the Olympic Committee. That sort of person is not
only likely to have a wildly different conception of 'simple' they are
also likely to figure in the cost of buying land in one of the most
expensive cities in the world.

-M

Quoted message said:

Anyone have a ballpark figure idea of how much it costs to build a
simple velodrome?

I don't, but the Northbrook (Illinois, USA) Velodrome was reconstructed a
couple of years ago. They should have some reconstruction figures handy.
Can't hurt to ask.
http://www.northbrookvelodrome.org/

On Mon, 25 Dec 2006 16:00:13 -0600, "Carl Sundquist" <[email hidden]>
wrote:

[snip]

Quoted message said:

[1] This was a portable track that was used for an attempt at a revival of
the six days in the US. It was stored in several semi trailers that were
stolen.

Dear Carl,

Paging Mr. John A. Dortmunder . . .

Message for Mr. John Dortmunder from Mr. Donald Westlake . . .

Please meet Mr. Westlake and Mr. Sundquist at the O.J. Bar & Grill on
Amsterdam Avenue . . .

If your schedule will not allow this, please contact Mr. Hammett at
#28 at the address below:

http://www.thrillingdetective.com/trivia/hammett2.html

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Mon, 25 Dec 2006 16:00:13 -0600, "Carl Sundquist" <[email hidden]>
wrote:

[snip]

Quoted message said:

[1] This was a portable track that was used for an attempt at a revival of
the six days in the US. It was stored in several semi trailers that were
stolen.

Dear Carl,

Paging Mr. John A. Dortmunder . . .

Message for Mr. John Dortmunder from Mr. Donald Westlake . . .

Please meet Mr. Westlake and Mr. Sundquist at the O.J. Bar & Grill on
Amsterdam Avenue . . .

If your schedule will not allow this, please contact Mr. Hammett at
#28 at the address below:

http://www.thrillingdetective.com/trivia/hammett2.html

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

I wasn't there. Please tell us what really happened.

On Mon, 25 Dec 2006 20:03:00 -0600, "Carl Sundquist" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Mon, 25 Dec 2006 16:00:13 -0600, "Carl Sundquist" <[email hidden]>
wrote:

[snip]

Quoted message said:

[1] This was a portable track that was used for an attempt at a revival of
the six days in the US. It was stored in several semi trailers that were
stolen.

Dear Carl,

Paging Mr. John A. Dortmunder . . .

Message for Mr. John Dortmunder from Mr. Donald Westlake . . .

Please meet Mr. Westlake and Mr. Sundquist at the O.J. Bar & Grill on
Amsterdam Avenue . . .

If your schedule will not allow this, please contact Mr. Hammett at
#28 at the address below:

http://www.thrillingdetective.com/trivia/hammett2.html

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

I wasn't there. Please tell us what really happened.

Dear Carl,

Me neither.

I wasn't incredulous, just vastly amused that someone pulled a
Dortmunder-style heist of a bicycle race-track--which isn't quite as
improbable as it sounds, given Hammett's real-life ferris-wheel thief.

Possibly the bicycle race-track ended up in this Simpson's episode,
where Homer, disguised as Krusty, is about to be executed by Don
Vittorio DiMaggio unless Homer disguised as Krusty can entertain him
in a very specific way:

Vittorio: Sorry I have to do this, Krusty. [pulls a gun] [points it at
Homer, cocks trigger] I cannot do it. To murder a funny man of such
genius would be a crime. Ah, tell you what, Krusty: do for me my
favorite trick where you ride the little bike for me through the loop,
and I will let you live.

http://www.snpp.com/episodes/2F12.html

It's suspicious that Don Vittorio DiMaggio just happens to have a
loop-the-loop bicycle track handy for Homer and Krusty to ride through
on their miniature bicycles. Where did this self-described "old
Italian stereotype" get his personal velodrome? Could it have fallen
off the back of the stolen trucks?

Paging Mr. Matt Groening, message for Mr. Matt Groening . . .

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

On Mon, 25 Dec 2006 08:23:21 -0500, Don Wiss <donwiss@no_spam.com>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I won't go into great detail regarding why one of my friends has come
up with the idea that what Haikou really needs is a velodrome.

Here are pages on the one in NYC:

http://www.nycgovparks.org/sub_things_to_do/facilities/af_cycling.html
http://www.bikecult.com/works/kissenatrack.html
http://www.kissena.info/track/

Don <www.donwiss.com/joyrides> (e-mail link at page bottom).

That one is a half mile from my house. I watch the races in the summer
but don't ride on it much myself. There is now a fence around it but
it's easy enough to lift a bike over the fence.

Don Wiss said:

Quoted message said:

I won't go into great detail regarding why one of my friends has come
up with the idea that what Haikou really needs is a velodrome.

Here are pages on the one in NYC:

http://www.nycgovparks.org/sub_things_to_do/facilities/af_cycling.html
http://www.bikecult.com/works/kissenatrack.html
http://www.kissena.info/track/

Don <www.donwiss.com/joyrides> (e-mail link at page bottom).

Picking a random message to respond when I say this is what I love
about the internet. Sometimes the information is useful.

I think I'll let the friend in question do the following up. He ended
up getting the position he has because of his fluency in English.

-M

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted post said:

I think I'll let the friend in question do the following up. He ended
up getting the position he has because of his fluency in English.

Here's some candy with which to entice him:
http://www.duncgrayvelodrome.com/

The Dunc Gray Velodrome, built for the Sydney Olympics.

cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

Tom Keats said:

Here's some candy with which to entice him:
http://www.duncgrayvelodrome.com/

And some reading:
http://www.wolfram.com/products/mathematica/usersanduses/experience/vanishing.html
and http://www.wolfram.com/news/velo2.html

Well, enticing for me anyway.

--
E. Dronkert