Powered Bicycles

Quoted message said:

it was only when I noticed the unused pedals that I realised it
wasn't a motorbike.

A 'human-assisted motorbike', rather than 'motor-assisted bicycle'. 🙂

I have one, although it's a petrol Rotary Pro Kit engine, and in a
state of disrepair. The engine itself was quite reliable, economical,
and quiet; however its current condition came about from a critical
clutch failure that made me loose the motivation to continue touring
with it. (Pushbikes aren't quite eligible for NRMA roadside
assistance..)

Quoted message said:

Of course, it could still be outside the Australian power limit.

The models of electric quasi-scooters I've seen in the past year have
all been compliant with the 200W power limit. They however seem to
weigh a lot more than the usual powered bike.

--
Chris

Chris Baird said:

(Pushbikes aren't quite eligible for NRMA roadside
assistance..)

Actually, I think they are (now), or was that RACV?

Aeek said:

I'm suddenly seeing more of these around Canberra, the riders not
pedalling at all. Tonights was a little scary, coming towards me on
the path, motorbike styled fairing and motorbike helmet, it was only
when I noticed the unused pedals that I realised it wasn't a
motorbike.
Of course, it could still be outside the Australian power limit.

The Roadside Assist is RACV. The 200W power limit is essentially a dumb
idea that throttles the use of alternative transport. The Chinese
manufacture more than half a million assisted bicycles rated at 500W
each year. The number we import is precisely Zero, because of this
archaic and idiotic regulation. So much for combatting climate change.

ray said:

Aeek said:

I'm suddenly seeing more of these around Canberra, the riders not
pedalling at all. Tonights was a little scary, coming towards me on
the path, motorbike styled fairing and motorbike helmet, it was only
when I noticed the unused pedals that I realised it wasn't a
motorbike.
Of course, it could still be outside the Australian power limit.

The Roadside Assist is RACV. The 200W power limit is essentially a dumb
idea that throttles the use of alternative transport.

I don't think expecting people to have to be licenced (and thus, at
least to a certain extent, trained) to drive a vehicle under power ,
and the vehicle to have to conform to safety standards is a dumb idea
that damages anything. The opposite, on the other hand, IMO , is.

On 2006-12-15, Bleve (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

Quoted message said:

ray said:

Aeek said:

I'm suddenly seeing more of these around Canberra, the riders not
pedalling at all. Tonights was a little scary, coming towards me on
the path, motorbike styled fairing and motorbike helmet, it was only
when I noticed the unused pedals that I realised it wasn't a
motorbike.
Of course, it could still be outside the Australian power limit.

The Roadside Assist is RACV. The 200W power limit is essentially a dumb
idea that throttles the use of alternative transport.

I don't think expecting people to have to be licenced (and thus, at
least to a certain extent, trained) to drive a vehicle under power ,
and the vehicle to have to conform to safety standards is a dumb idea
that damages anything. The opposite, on the other hand, IMO , is.

Unfortunately, in most states in Australia, you need a motorbike
license even for sub 50cc. But even for those states who do allow you
to ride sub 50cc motorbikes on a car license, you still can't ride
these bikes. Given that they are low powered light weight
alternatives to real motorbikes, that makes absolutely no sense
whatsoever to me.

And it does cut off a real alternative. Getting a motorbike license
is a real pain (I don't have one yet because I'm lazy. I also can't
see how I can get a motorbike up here, and then go through the process
of getting a license and transporting the bike around until I do get
the license; but maybe I'm a little dim). Given these things will not
be much less safer than a bicycle, why the hell should one have to go
through that pain?

--
TimC
"I looked back and bikes and riders were flipping in the air. There
must have been 20-30+ riders in the pile."
-- overheard after Early Bird 4/5 race

ray said:

The Roadside Assist is RACV. The 200W power limit is essentially a dumb
idea that throttles the use of alternative transport.

Well, where do you draw the line then?
Or do you think we should stop regulating all motor vehicles?
You are quite free to buy a more powerful moped, but you need a
drivers license, registration, and it must meet safety standards.
Is that so bad?

Quoted message said:

The Chinese
manufacture more than half a million assisted bicycles rated at 500W

The ones that look like motor scooters? I've seen those in China, and
they are a useless fad. First, you only ever see them in flat cities,
where a regular bicycle would be better. In hilly places, where a
powered bike
would be useful, they don't exist, presumably due to limited power,
poor range and high cost of reduced battery life.

If battery technology improves, e.g. cheaper Li-Ion, then 500W electric
bikes might be practical.

Regular bicycles with bolt-on petrol engines are much more practical
currently, but just not fashionable.

The 200W limit comes from the power of a regular, fit cyclist, as these
motorised bikes are intended for the disabled, not for lazy slobs
who have had their drivers' license suspended.

Bleve said:

ray said:

Aeek said:

I'm suddenly seeing more of these around Canberra, the riders not
pedalling at all. Tonights was a little scary, coming towards me on
the path, motorbike styled fairing and motorbike helmet, it was only
when I noticed the unused pedals that I realised it wasn't a
motorbike.
Of course, it could still be outside the Australian power limit.

The Roadside Assist is RACV. The 200W power limit is essentially a dumb
idea that throttles the use of alternative transport.

I don't think expecting people to have to be licenced (and thus, at
least to a certain extent, trained) to drive a vehicle under power ,
and the vehicle to have to conform to safety standards is a dumb idea
that damages anything. The opposite, on the other hand, IMO , is.

I agree, although it is worth keeping in mind that 500W is less than the
power of a moped (>1000W).

Maybe there's a need for a special class for 200-500W vehicles, otherwise
people will avoid them and get a car or motorbike.

Cheers,

Vince

I really like them. It gives me a buzz riding past them and leaving
them behind :-)

Mike said:

ray said:

The Roadside Assist is RACV. The 200W power limit is essentially a dumb
idea that throttles the use of alternative transport.

Well, where do you draw the line then?
Or do you think we should stop regulating all motor vehicles?
You are quite free to buy a more powerful moped, but you need a
drivers license, registration, and it must meet safety standards.
Is that so bad?

Quoted message said:

The Chinese
manufacture more than half a million assisted bicycles rated at 500W

The ones that look like motor scooters? I've seen those in China, and
they are a useless fad. First, you only ever see them in flat cities,
where a regular bicycle would be better. In hilly places, where a
powered bike
would be useful, they don't exist, presumably due to limited power,
poor range and high cost of reduced battery life.

If battery technology improves, e.g. cheaper Li-Ion, then 500W electric
bikes might be practical.

Regular bicycles with bolt-on petrol engines are much more practical
currently, but just not fashionable.

The 200W limit comes from the power of a regular, fit cyclist, as these
motorised bikes are intended for the disabled, not for lazy slobs
who have had their drivers' license suspended.

Mike said:

Regular bicycles with bolt-on petrol engines are much more practical
currently, but just not fashionable.

The 200W limit comes from the power of a regular, fit cyclist, as these
motorised bikes are intended for the disabled, not for lazy slobs
who have had their drivers' license suspended.

Then there is something like this:
http://cleverchimp.com/products/stokemonkey/

A very specific use for a power-assist that would be illegal here in
Victoria if you did import one, but not intended for the disabled nor the
lazy. It is designed to be used with a load carrying bike, and no pedalling,
no power. To my mind a very practical use of power-assist.

--
Cheers
Peter

~~~ ~ _@
~~ ~ _- \,
~~ (*)/ (*)

ray said:

The number we import is precisely Zero, because of this
archaic and idiotic regulation. So much for combatting climate change.

I prefer to think the real issue is the continued protection of already
licenced motor vehicle drivers and their wonderful non-sharing attitude
towards the road.

the only real problem that I can see with them is demonstrated knowledge
of roads rules and a clear definition of where they belong (not on the
foot path?)

RV said:

You would use a LiPol packs for such a need.
Many use Lithium Polymer Batteries in radio controlled Helicopters
these days instead of Nitro engines.
I still fly Nitro but the Battery Helis that run LiPols are giving
a;lmost the same flying time.
This has only come about in the last 2 years of Helis.

Tyre kick
1) cost of helis?
2) what weight can they carry?

Ideas of doing my own local area aerial photography, but lower down.

Quoted message said:

I really like them. It gives me a buzz riding past them and leaving
them behind :-)

Let's see you do over 200kms/day, for several consecutive days, with a
full touring load on the bike. 🙂

pics: http://kildall.apana.org.au/~cjb/mainboard/imgboard.php?res=100
http://kildall.apana.org.au/~cjb/mainboard/imgboard.php?res=85 (in full touring regalia)
--
Chris

Big Bear said:

RV said:

You would use a LiPol packs for such a need.
Many use Lithium Polymer Batteries in radio controlled Helicopters
these days instead of Nitro engines.
I still fly Nitro but the Battery Helis that run LiPols are giving
a;lmost the same flying time.
This has only come about in the last 2 years of Helis.

Tyre kick
1) cost of helis?
2) what weight can they carry?

Choose a Heli for the weight you want to carry, Elec, Nitro, Gasser or
Turbine, when you do that youve answered question 1.

Quoted message said:

Ideas of doing my own local area aerial photography, but lower down.

Forget iit as a legit business.
CASA killed that off.

Or youll need to do like the rest of us, ignore CASA.

TimC said:

On 2006-12-15, Bleve (aka Bruce)

Quoted message said:

Unfortunately, in most states in Australia, you need a motorbike
license even for sub 50cc. But even for those states who do allow you
to ride sub 50cc motorbikes on a car license, you still can't ride
these bikes. Given that they are low powered light weight
alternatives to real motorbikes, that makes absolutely no sense
whatsoever to me.

And it does cut off a real alternative. Getting a motorbike license
is a real pain (I don't have one yet because I'm lazy. I also can't
see how I can get a motorbike up here, and then go through the process
of getting a license and transporting the bike around until I do get
the license; but maybe I'm a little dim). Given these things will not
be much less safer than a bicycle, why the hell should one have to go
through that pain?

One weekend of training (the HORROR!), which most posters here claim is
sadly lacking for all road users, and you're OPPOSED to it?!

Given that motorcycle training is about bike control and safe road
riding and is taught by people that actually ride on the road every
day, I think encouraging rider (bicycle as well as motorcycle) is a
very *very* good thing, especially given the evidence that Forester
cites about accident rates for trained cyclists (bicycle) being
drastically lower than for untrained.

I have a motorcycle licence, and the riding training I did for that I
think has taught me a lot of safe road riding skills and attitudes.

Bleve said:

One weekend of training

Is that now a requirement for MC?

Chris Baird said:

http://kildall.apana.org.au/~cjb/mainboard/imgboard.php?res=85 (in full touring regalia)

1) twas a bit worried that this was an IC engine, which defeats one
ofthe purposes of touring for me; the quiet, but this shows the battery
pack(phew)

2) Full touring kit? looks more like a suit bag {:-).
No front panniers?

3) The whole purpose of going touring is to enjoythe scenery and see
still and not go whizzing past and miss stuff (BTDT).

4) How many is "several consecutive days" and how did you recharge?

RV said:

Forget iit as a legit business.

Naah, if anything, it might have become a business tool, i.e. what the
customer saw would have been interpreted data.

Quoted message said:

CASA killed that off.

Or youll need to do like the rest of us, ignore CASA.

For my line, I don't see how they'd know, especialy if you also use the
big boys product.

Big Bear said:

Is that now a requirement for MC?

IIRC you need to do a one day course to get your motorbike learner's
certificate in NSW, and have done for 10-15 years. It's basic roadcraft
and handling skills, and there are a few places it can be done. I never
really looked that hard, since I don't trust myself with the power:weight
ratio of a motorbike - I have enough problems with the power to weight
ratio of my pushbikes.

--
Dave Hughes | [email hidden]
I think it's a beautiful day to go to the zoo and feed the ducks.
To the lions. -- Brian Kantor

Big Bear said:

Ideas of doing my own local area aerial photography, but lower down.

http://scenefromabove.biz

--
Dave Hughes | [email hidden]
Lithospheric flight paths typically result in extremely high drag
coefficients, often quite a bit in excess of design parameters.
- Rick Dickinson