Cassette protector?

VeloJon said:

On road bikes, what is the name of that clear plastic disk they put
between the cassette and the spokes of the rear wheel? What does this
do and is it critical? Is it just to keep the chain out of the spokes,
or to keep dirt out of the cassette?

I have always called them Spoke Protectors
(http://www.lickbike.com/productpage.aspx?PART_NUM_SUB='0475-32'😉. Look under
Sheldon's glossary (www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_sp-ss.html) and you will see
what I have always felt about these:

"A spoke protector is not a necessity on a bike that is well treated, because
the derailer can't go into the spokes if it's properly adjusted..."

You may wish to remove the protector. If you break a spoke on the
cassette side it will be impossible to either replace the spoke or
install a temp. fiber fix spoke.

VeloJon said:

On road bikes, what is the name of that clear plastic disk they put
between the cassette and the spokes of the rear wheel? What does this
do and is it critical? Is it just to keep the chain out of the spokes,
or to keep dirt out of the cassette?

David White said:

"A spoke protector is not a necessity on a bike that is well treated,
because the derailer can't go into the spokes if it's properly
adjusted..."

Wild twig?
--
Phil Lee, Squid

David White said:

VeloJon said:

On road bikes, what is the name of that clear plastic disk they put
between the cassette and the spokes of the rear wheel? What does
this do and is it critical? Is it just to keep the chain out of the
spokes, or to keep dirt out of the cassette?

I have always called them Spoke Protectors
(http://www.lickbike.com/productpage.aspx?PART_NUM_SUB='0475-32'😉.
Look under Sheldon's glossary (www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_sp-ss.html)
and you will see what I have always felt about these:

"A spoke protector is not a necessity on a bike that is well treated,
because the derailer can't go into the spokes if it's properly
adjusted..."

Hmm... I mean, a large spoke protector (you know, the old metal pie-plate
ones) will help at least marginally against wild twigs.
--
Phil Lee, Squid

David White said:

Look under
Sheldon's glossary (www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_sp-ss.html) and you will see
what I have always felt about these:

"A spoke protector is not a necessity on a bike that is well treated, because
the derailer can't go into the spokes if it's properly adjusted..."

But if you write off a wheel, a derailleur, and the hanger tab because
someone pranged your bike while it was sitting in the rack, you might
wish you had a spoke protector. It's pretty cheap insurance-- though
I'll admit that most of my derailleur bikes don't have one.

Chalo

Phil Lee said:

David White said:

VeloJon said:

On road bikes, what is the name of that clear plastic disk they put
between the cassette and the spokes of the rear wheel? What does
this do and is it critical? Is it just to keep the chain out of the
spokes, or to keep dirt out of the cassette?

I have always called them Spoke Protectors
(http://www.lickbike.com/productpage.aspx?PART_NUM_SUB='0475-32'😉.
Look under Sheldon's glossary (www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_sp-ss.html)
and you will see what I have always felt about these:

"A spoke protector is not a necessity on a bike that is well treated,
because the derailer can't go into the spokes if it's properly
adjusted..."

Hmm... I mean, a large spoke protector (you know, the old metal pie-plate
ones) will help at least marginally against wild twigs.

I just knocked a typical, plastic one off a bike a friend was given. The bike
was not that old but the protector was so brittle that it just cracked and
broke to pieces. I doubt it would have withstood even a twig. This was good for
me as I seemed to have lost my cassette lockring tool and the owner wanted the
protector removed. As they say, "When in doubt, brute strength and ignorance..."

VeloJon said:

On road bikes, what is the name of that clear plastic disk they put
between the cassette and the spokes of the rear wheel? What does this
do and is it critical? Is it just to keep the chain out of the spokes,
or to keep dirt out of the cassette?

I had to replace 6-8 spokes this summer on a rear wheel that had gotten
chewed up when the chain got jammed in there while riding. That was
before I knew how to adjust my derailleurs properly.

That being said, I always take the protectors off, they don't look
cool. 🙂

Regards,
Anthony

Phil Lee said:

David White said:

"A spoke protector is not a necessity on a bike that is well treated,
because the derailer can't go into the spokes if it's properly
adjusted..."

Quoted message said:

Wild twig?

Sounds like a Brit bragging about a night out to me.

Bill "I don't know why" S.

Phil Lee said:

Hmm... I mean, a large spoke protector (you know, the old metal
pie-plate ones) will help at least marginally against wild twigs.

OK, that's TWO mentions of wild twigs.

Childhood trauma?!?

VeloJon said:

On road bikes, what is the name of that clear plastic disk they put
between the cassette and the spokes of the rear wheel?

Dork disk.

Quoted message said:

What does this
do and is it critical?

Keeps the chain out of the spokes.
Only if you dump your chain into the spokes

Quoted message said:

Is it just to keep the chain out of the spokes,
or to keep dirt out of the cassette?

It doesn't seem to help the cassette in any way.

If the bike's well adjusted and you don't suffer any catastrophic failures it is
needless. If you do have a derailleur or hanger break, well the spokes would be
the cheaper part of dealing with that anyway.

Ron

On 14 Sep 2006 09:13:28 -0700, "VeloJon" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

On road bikes, what is the name of that clear plastic disk they put
between the cassette and the spokes of the rear wheel?

Variously "pie plate" (but that's usually reserved for the old metal
ones), "spoke guard", "spoke protector", or in some cases just
"thatdamnplasticthingIcan'tgetatthebikeshop". (I believe that latter
term is translated from German.)

Quoted message said:

What does this do

I keeps the spokes from getting chewed up if the chain overshifts past
the large sprocket.

Quoted message said:

and is it critical?

Opinions vary. I don't think that more than a small numer of people
regard it as critical, but quite a few regard them as a good idea.

Quoted message said:

Is it just to keep the chain out of the spokes,

Yup.

Quoted message said:

or to keep dirt out of the cassette?

Nope.

--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

RonSonic <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

On 14 Sep 2006 09:13:28 -0700, "VeloJon" <[email hidden]>
wrote:

SNIP

Quoted message said:

It doesn't seem to help the cassette in any way.

If the bike's well adjusted and you don't suffer any catastrophic
failures it is needless. If you do have a derailleur or hanger break,
well the spokes would be the cheaper part of dealing with that anyway.

Ron

My low limit screw was misdjusted on my old 10 speed bike with
ratcheting barcon end shifters, I was shifting into the lowest cog
climbing a big a hill and drove the derailer into the spokes. I bent my
hanger and dropout, twisted the derailer in half and severely bent 4
spokes. Luckily I was only 4 miles from home and a man in a pickup truck
happened by and gave me a ride.

I managed to find a nearly exact replacement derailer on Ebay,
straightened the dropout myself (steel frames can be straightened, an
aluminum frame would probably have been unrepairable) and had the spokes
replaced and the wheel trued at the LBS; I now have a truing stand, I
true, repair, and rebuild my own wheels.

The spoke guard is there to protect from catastrophes such as this.
If you take it off be sure the low limit screw on your rear derailer is
kept in adjustment.

Rich

Werehatrack said:

On 14 Sep 2006 09:13:28 -0700, "VeloJon" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

On road bikes, what is the name of that clear plastic disk they put
between the cassette and the spokes of the rear wheel?

Variously "pie plate" (but that's usually reserved for the old metal
ones), "spoke guard", "spoke protector", or in some cases just
"thatdamnplasticthingIcan'tgetatthebikeshop". (I believe that latter
term is translated from German.)

Quoted message said:

What does this do

I keeps the spokes from getting chewed up if the chain overshifts past
the large sprocket.

Quoted message said:

and is it critical?

Opinions vary. I don't think that more than a small numer of people
regard it as critical, but quite a few regard them as a good idea.

Quoted message said:

Is it just to keep the chain out of the spokes,

Yup.

Quoted message said:

or to keep dirt out of the cassette?

Nope.

--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

I guess I just don't see any real downside to these things other than
loss of style points. I mean the occurrence it's meant to protect
against--deraileur thrown into the spokes--is pretty darn severe if it
happens, and apparently it does happen from time to time, life being
what it is. Is there more to it than jeers from the road-racing set
that discourages their use as standard issue cheap insurance for Very
Expensive Equipment? Are they not actually very effective in keeping
derailleurs out of wheels? Is it really that difficult for a
derailleur, once properly set up, to ever go out of alignment? Are you
disqualified from riding in a peloton if you have one? Or what?

(I mean this as a serious question: I really don't know why *every*
derailleur-equipped bike doesn't come with one.)

autopi said:

I guess I just don't see any real downside to these things other than
loss of style points. I mean the occurrence it's meant to protect
against--deraileur thrown into the spokes--is pretty darn severe if it
happens, and apparently it does happen from time to time, life being
what it is. Is there more to it than jeers from the road-racing set
that discourages their use as standard issue cheap insurance for Very
Expensive Equipment?

They actually do get brittle and break pretty easily, often involving
the tabs they clip on to the hub with, causing them to flop around on
the hub as it rotates. Also, it's not uncommon for fit between the
protector and the hub to be poor due to the tab shape and the flange
thickness not working well together. And to top it off, they're a bit
more expensive than it seems like they might be, eating up critical
dollars in the retail costs of low-end bikes and costing a bit to
replace when they do break.

Quoted message said:

Are they not actually very effective in keeping
derailleurs out of wheels?

They're perfectly good at that.

Quoted message said:

Is it really that difficult for a
derailleur, once properly set up, to ever go out of alignment?

This is a question I'm really interested in that seems to be a bit
glossed over in the status quo of bike stuff. Working on random bikes
of all different stripes all the time, it's very, very common to see
limit screws misadjusted. Some were never adjusted right during initial
assembly, some were misadjusted by users, but quite a few seem to have
lost adjustment over time from the screws not being retained adequately
to keep them from moving. The designs of some derailers make it quite
normal for this to happen, I think. I haven't gotten around to geeking
out over how well which derailers keep the screws in place yet. What I
have been doing for a while now is using a few drops of wicking
low-strength oil-resistant Loctite on each limit screw on all the bikes
I work on. It wicks, so I just drop it carefully around the outside of
the screw and it seems to get in well enough to do its thing. The
screws will turn with a noticeable increase in friction after this but
are still perfectly adjustable, and the friction subjectively seems
like it should be enough to keep them from losing adjustment due to
vibration or whatever exactly does it. I'm not quite there yet, but I
really wonder whether this should just be seen as standard practice.
It's been working well for me, and I'm grateful for it because I deal
with quite a few cheap bikes with cheap derailers that are ridden more
than they're really meant to be.

VeloJon said:

On road bikes, what is the name of that clear plastic disk they put
between the cassette and the spokes of the rear wheel?

Trash.

What does this

Quoted message said:

do and is it critical?

Breaks and then makes noise. Does nothing.

Is it just to keep the chain out of the spokes,

Quoted message said:

or to keep dirt out of the cassette?

There to prevent the chain from going into the spokes...a phenomenom
common on poorly aseembled bicycles but unheard of if the limit screws
are adjusted properly.

On 15 Sep 2006 01:16:37 -0700, "Nate Knutson" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

autopi said:

I guess I just don't see any real downside to these things other than
loss of style points. I mean the occurrence it's meant to protect
against--deraileur thrown into the spokes--is pretty darn severe if it
happens, and apparently it does happen from time to time, life being
what it is. Is there more to it than jeers from the road-racing set
that discourages their use as standard issue cheap insurance for Very
Expensive Equipment?

They actually do get brittle and break pretty easily, often involving
the tabs they clip on to the hub with, causing them to flop around on
the hub as it rotates. Also, it's not uncommon for fit between the
protector and the hub to be poor due to the tab shape and the flange
thickness not working well together. And to top it off, they're a bit
more expensive than it seems like they might be, eating up critical
dollars in the retail costs of low-end bikes and costing a bit to
replace when they do break.

Quoted message said:

Are they not actually very effective in keeping
derailleurs out of wheels?

[snip]

Dear Nate,

Yes, the spoke protector's plastic tabs can break as they grow brittle
with age. But tires wear, handlebar tape doesn't last forever, and a
current thread suggests that cables ought to be replaced now and then.

Replacement of the spoke protector is actually quicker than replacing
the tire, tape, or cables--remove rear wheel, remove cassette, remove
old guard, pop new guard in place, screw cassette back on, put wheel
back in frame.

The economic explanation is a bit suspect. BikeToolsEtc sells spoke
protectors at a profit for $1.95, presumably with a hefty markup:

http://www.biketoolsetc.com/index.cgi?id=440435462942&c=Components&sc=Accessories&tc=Spoke-Protectors
or http://tinyurl.com/rnul2

They cost less than a typical inner tube.

True low end bikes, the kind sold at a profit at WalMart for $50, come
with spoke protectors:

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=2073252

You can't see it in the picture, but the original Fury RoadMaster came
with a clear spoke protector just barely bigger than the largest rear
sprocket.

Strangely, Jobst has just mentioned damaging 9 spokes with his chain.
He can't find a modern derailleur whose limit screw understands his
venerable 6-speed. Either Jobst doesn't use a spoke protector and
ought to, or else he does use a plastic guard and it doesn't work as
well as posts in this thread suggest.

I've never ridden a bike without a spoke protector, but I've also
never had the chain come off into the spokes, probably more a matter
of not using first gear very much than careful derailleur adjustment
and maintenance. My chains always bounce off the other end of the
cassette and jam between the small cog and the frame.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Qui si parla Campagnolo aka Peter Chisholm said:

VeloJon said:

On road bikes, what is the name of that clear plastic disk they put
between the cassette and the spokes of the rear wheel?

Trash.

What does this

Quoted message said:

do and is it critical?

Breaks and then makes noise. Does nothing.

Is it just to keep the chain out of the spokes,

Quoted message said:

or to keep dirt out of the cassette?

There to prevent the chain from going into the spokes...a phenomenom
common on poorly aseembled bicycles but unheard of if the limit screws
are adjusted properly.

What about an ATB where the rear derailleur can easily get whacked
while riding off-road?

My experience indicates that shifting can deteriorate in a hurry with a
few crashes, mud in the mechanism, etc...

--
Tom Sherman - Here, not there.

Quoted message said:

On 15 Sep 2006 01:16:37 -0700, "Nate Knutson" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

autopi said:

I guess I just don't see any real downside to these things other than
loss of style points. I mean the occurrence it's meant to protect
against--deraileur thrown into the spokes--is pretty darn severe if it
happens, and apparently it does happen from time to time, life being
what it is. Is there more to it than jeers from the road-racing set
that discourages their use as standard issue cheap insurance for Very
Expensive Equipment?

They actually do get brittle and break pretty easily, often involving
the tabs they clip on to the hub with, causing them to flop around on
the hub as it rotates. Also, it's not uncommon for fit between the
protector and the hub to be poor due to the tab shape and the flange
thickness not working well together. And to top it off, they're a bit
more expensive than it seems like they might be, eating up critical
dollars in the retail costs of low-end bikes and costing a bit to
replace when they do break.

Quoted message said:

Are they not actually very effective in keeping
derailleurs out of wheels?

[snip]

Dear Nate,

Yes, the spoke protector's plastic tabs can break as they grow brittle
with age. But tires wear, handlebar tape doesn't last forever, and a
current thread suggests that cables ought to be replaced now and then.

Replacement of the spoke protector is actually quicker than replacing
the tire, tape, or cables--remove rear wheel, remove cassette, remove
old guard, pop new guard in place, screw cassette back on, put wheel
back in frame.

The economic explanation is a bit suspect. BikeToolsEtc sells spoke
protectors at a profit for $1.95, presumably with a hefty markup:

http://www.biketoolsetc.com/index.cgi?id=440435462942&c=Components&sc=Accessories&tc=Spoke-Protectors
or http://tinyurl.com/rnul2

They cost less than a typical inner tube.

I don't mean to imply I know a whole lot about the economics of spoke
protectors, but these are cheaper than usual, or at least cheaper than
an LBS could sell them for. I'll go out on a limb and say that the
wholesale cost for some (Shimano ones from QBP) is $2.90 each... making
them likely to show up in many LBS's in the $6-7 range. My experience
putting such price tags on them is what led to my original comment.

Quoted message said:

True low end bikes, the kind sold at a profit at WalMart for $50, come
with spoke protectors:

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=2073252

You can't see it in the picture, but the original Fury RoadMaster came
with a clear spoke protector just barely bigger than the largest rear
sprocket.

Strangely, Jobst has just mentioned damaging 9 spokes with his chain.
He can't find a modern derailleur whose limit screw understands his
venerable 6-speed. Either Jobst doesn't use a spoke protector and
ought to, or else he does use a plastic guard and it doesn't work as
well as posts in this thread suggest.

It probably doesn't happen to him that often relative to how many miles
he rides, and I believe in that thread he said that over the years all
the original drive side outer spokes MAY have been replaced, meaning he
doesn't keep track.

On 15 Sep 2006 17:17:49 -0700, "Nate Knutson" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On 15 Sep 2006 01:16:37 -0700, "Nate Knutson" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

autopi wrote:

> I guess I just don't see any real downside to these things other than
> loss of style points. I mean the occurrence it's meant to protect
> against--deraileur thrown into the spokes--is pretty darn severe if it
> happens, and apparently it does happen from time to time, life being
> what it is. Is there more to it than jeers from the road-racing set
> that discourages their use as standard issue cheap insurance for Very
> Expensive Equipment?

They actually do get brittle and break pretty easily, often involving
the tabs they clip on to the hub with, causing them to flop around on
the hub as it rotates. Also, it's not uncommon for fit between the
protector and the hub to be poor due to the tab shape and the flange
thickness not working well together. And to top it off, they're a bit
more expensive than it seems like they might be, eating up critical
dollars in the retail costs of low-end bikes and costing a bit to
replace when they do break.

> Are they not actually very effective in keeping
> derailleurs out of wheels?

[snip]

Dear Nate,

Yes, the spoke protector's plastic tabs can break as they grow brittle
with age. But tires wear, handlebar tape doesn't last forever, and a
current thread suggests that cables ought to be replaced now and then.

Replacement of the spoke protector is actually quicker than replacing
the tire, tape, or cables--remove rear wheel, remove cassette, remove
old guard, pop new guard in place, screw cassette back on, put wheel
back in frame.

The economic explanation is a bit suspect. BikeToolsEtc sells spoke
protectors at a profit for $1.95, presumably with a hefty markup:

http://www.biketoolsetc.com/index.cgi?id=440435462942&c=Components&sc=Accessories&tc=Spoke-Protectors
or http://tinyurl.com/rnul2

They cost less than a typical inner tube.

I don't mean to imply I know a whole lot about the economics of spoke
protectors, but these are cheaper than usual, or at least cheaper than
an LBS could sell them for. I'll go out on a limb and say that the
wholesale cost for some (Shimano ones from QBP) is $2.90 each... making
them likely to show up in many LBS's in the $6-7 range. My experience
putting such price tags on them is what led to my original comment.

Quoted message said:

True low end bikes, the kind sold at a profit at WalMart for $50, come
with spoke protectors:

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=2073252

You can't see it in the picture, but the original Fury RoadMaster came
with a clear spoke protector just barely bigger than the largest rear
sprocket.

Strangely, Jobst has just mentioned damaging 9 spokes with his chain.
He can't find a modern derailleur whose limit screw understands his
venerable 6-speed. Either Jobst doesn't use a spoke protector and
ought to, or else he does use a plastic guard and it doesn't work as
well as posts in this thread suggest.

It probably doesn't happen to him that often relative to how many miles
he rides, and I believe in that thread he said that over the years all
the original drive side outer spokes MAY have been replaced, meaning he
doesn't keep track.

Dear Nate,

You're right--QBP through Sheldon shows $5.95 for Dimension spoke
protectors that BikeToolsEtc sells for a profit at $1.95:

http://harriscyclery.net/page.cfm?PageID=49&action=list&searchtype=search&keywords=spoke+protector&Brand=
or http://tinyurl.com/qhb2f

Gracious, who would have thought that the markup on small parts can be
so impressive!

(This never happens in the computer world, except when stores like
Circuit City, Staples, and OfficeMax charge five to ten times as much
as mail order companies for the USB cable that many printers don't
come with.)

As for Jobst's spokes, the number replaced due to chain damage is
somewhere between 1 and 9 outbound spokes . . .

"I am riding the same hubs and spokes I have ridden for more than 30
years with the exception of those that got damaged by dropping the
chain. That would be at most the nine outbound spokes of the right
rear but probably fewer. In front I have had two failures when a
stick got in the wheel in the woods and caused and endo and a sharp
kink at the nipple."

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/c64c3814624e9063

. . . Unless, of course, the number is greater than 9. Replacing a
spoke once after the chain damages it does not make its replacement
immune from being damaged, replaced, and forgotten like the others.

Whatever the number, it's odd that Jobst with a derailleur that can't
limit overshift doesn't use a spoke protector. It may happen so rarely
that he doesn't mind, he may not be able to find a protector to fit
his particular 6-speed, he may not think that protectors work, or he
may have gotten so good at shifting that it no longer happens.

I peeked at the current Fury RoadMaster today at WalMart. Yes, the new
model has the same free-spinning, no-tab plastic spoke guard that mine
came with.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel