Cassette protector?

Quoted message said:

On 15 Sep 2006 17:17:49 -0700, "Nate Knutson" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The economic explanation is a bit suspect. BikeToolsEtc sells spoke
protectors at a profit for $1.95, presumably with a hefty markup:

http://www.biketoolsetc.com/index.cgi?id=440435462942&c=Components&sc=Accessories&tc=Spoke-Protectors
or http://tinyurl.com/rnul2

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I don't mean to imply I know a whole lot about the economics of spoke
protectors, but these are cheaper than usual, or at least cheaper than
an LBS could sell them for. I'll go out on a limb and say that the
wholesale cost for some (Shimano ones from QBP) is $2.90 each... making
them likely to show up in many LBS's in the $6-7 range. My experience
putting such price tags on them is what led to my original comment.

Quoted message said:

You're right--QBP through Sheldon shows $5.95 for Dimension spoke
protectors that BikeToolsEtc sells for a profit at $1.95:

http://harriscyclery.net/page.cfm?PageID=49&action=list&searchtype=search&keywords=spoke+protector&Brand=
or http://tinyurl.com/qhb2f

Gracious, who would have thought that the markup on small parts can be
so impressive!

Comparing the $1.95 price at BikeToolsEtc to $6-7 at the LBS is unfair.
The price at Bike Tools Etc. is "$1.95 plus shipping." I plugged in
Colorado and the least expensive shipping option to find that shipping
for that item was $6.00.

It wouldn't be unusual for someone to buy other parts in the same order,
reducing the cost of shipping per item, but the comparison is hardly as
simple as $2 vs. $6-7.

Quoted message said:

Whatever the number, it's odd that Jobst with a derailleur that can't
limit overshift doesn't use a spoke protector.

What's even odder is that he bristles when someone tries to help him
with that problem...

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/browse_thread/thread/887853515aca01a0/5fef5500567d4e3b?&hl=en#5fef5500567d4e3b
or http://tinyurl.com/nx9x7

--
Dave
dvt at psu dot edu

Everyone confesses that exertion which brings out all the powers of body
and mind is the best thing for us; but most people do all they can to
get rid of it, and as a general rule nobody does much more than
circumstances drive them to do. -Harriet Beecher Stowe, abolitionist and
novelist (1811-1896)

dvt said:

Quoted message said:

On 15 Sep 2006 17:17:49 -0700, "Nate Knutson" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> The economic explanation is a bit suspect. BikeToolsEtc sells spoke
> protectors at a profit for $1.95, presumably with a hefty markup:
>
> http://www.biketoolsetc.com/index.cgi?id=440435462942&c=Components&sc=Accessories&tc=Spoke-Protectors
> or http://tinyurl.com/rnul2

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I don't mean to imply I know a whole lot about the economics of spoke
protectors, but these are cheaper than usual, or at least cheaper than
an LBS could sell them for. I'll go out on a limb and say that the
wholesale cost for some (Shimano ones from QBP) is $2.90 each... making
them likely to show up in many LBS's in the $6-7 range. My experience
putting such price tags on them is what led to my original comment.

Quoted message said:

You're right--QBP through Sheldon shows $5.95 for Dimension spoke
protectors that BikeToolsEtc sells for a profit at $1.95:

http://harriscyclery.net/page.cfm?PageID=49&action=list&searchtype=search&keywords=spoke+protector&Brand=
or http://tinyurl.com/qhb2f

Gracious, who would have thought that the markup on small parts can be
so impressive!

Comparing the $1.95 price at BikeToolsEtc to $6-7 at the LBS is unfair.
The price at Bike Tools Etc. is "$1.95 plus shipping." I plugged in
Colorado and the least expensive shipping option to find that shipping
for that item was $6.00.

It wouldn't be unusual for someone to buy other parts in the same order,
reducing the cost of shipping per item, but the comparison is hardly as
simple as $2 vs. $6-7.

Quoted message said:

Whatever the number, it's odd that Jobst with a derailleur that can't
limit overshift doesn't use a spoke protector.

What's even odder is that he bristles when someone tries to help him
with that problem...

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/browse_thread/thread/887853515aca01a0/5fef5500567d4e3b?&hl=en#5fef5500567d4e3b
or http://tinyurl.com/nx9x7

Dear Dave,

"Fair" is usually tricky when comparing mail order prices.

The QBP price for a plastic spoke guard through Sheldon is $5.95 plus
a minimum 4-lb, $9 shipping UPS Ground to Western states.

That's $14.95 total, about twice as much as the BikeToolsEtc price of
$1.95 plus $6 shipping to Colorado, $7.95.

Shipping often costs more than an itty-bitty plastic part.

At the local bike shop, you pay for the convenience of instant access.
A local bike shop (or RBT poster with a private fleet) can order 10
spoke guards for $25.50, including the same $6 shipping from
BikeToolsEtc.

The RBT poster could gloat over equipping his two-wheeled horde for
only $2.55 each, instead of the $58.50, $5.85 per bike, cost of QBP.

The local bike shop dealer could slowly sell the same spoke guards for
$6-7 each, about twice what they cost him. He wouldn't "make" twice
what they cost him because he doesn't make a dime before he pays for
rent, phones, lights, heat, employees, advertising, shop tools,
business licenses, insurance, and so forth.

The true cost of small parts is rarely their price. It's your
convenience. At the hardware store, when you finally find the screws
that you want, you might as well buy the box for $3 instead of paying
a quarter for just the two screws that you need--if you lose one screw
or ever need another, then you've saved the cost of the trip to the
store.

As you point out, most people try to order more than just one part.
They do this partly to plan ahead, but also partly because they hate
the idea of paying $6 or $9 shipping on a plastic spoke guard that
would fit in a manila envelope with a dollar's worth of stamps.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo aka Peter Chisholm said:

VeloJon said:

On road bikes, what is the name of that clear plastic disk they put
between the cassette and the spokes of the rear wheel?

Trash.

What does this

Quoted message said:

do and is it critical?

Breaks and then makes noise. Does nothing.

Is it just to keep the chain out of the spokes,

Quoted message said:

or to keep dirt out of the cassette?

There to prevent the chain from going into the spokes...a phenomenom
common on poorly aseembled bicycles but unheard of if the limit screws
are adjusted properly.

What about an ATB where the rear derailleur can easily get whacked
while riding off-road?

My experience indicates that shifting can deteriorate in a hurry with a
few crashes, mud in the mechanism, etc...

--
Tom Sherman - Here, not there.

The main function I see for a spoke protector is to keep the chain from
damaging the spokes. One barley larger than the largest cog should
provide that.

As for preventing sticks from engaging the spokes, a protector would
have to be @ least half the diameter of the wheel.

Again though, a small one would prevent damage to a large # of spokes
in the event of a stick / derailleur / wheel encounter, leaving just
the stick damaged spokes to be repaired.

I must admit I don't have one on any of my bikes,
But I'm considering it, John

Nate Knutson wrote:

-snip-

Quoted message said:

What I
have been doing for a while now is using a few drops of wicking
low-strength oil-resistant Loctite on each limit screw on all the bikes
I work on. It wicks, so I just drop it carefully around the outside of
the screw and it seems to get in well enough to do its thing.

-snip-

Which Loctite do you use, Nate?

Thanks, John

john said:

Nate Knutson wrote:

-snip-

Quoted message said:

What I
have been doing for a while now is using a few drops of wicking
low-strength oil-resistant Loctite on each limit screw on all the bikes
I work on. It wicks, so I just drop it carefully around the outside of
the screw and it seems to get in well enough to do its thing.

-snip-

Which Loctite do you use, Nate?

Thanks, John

I'm not Nate but I use Loctite 243; the blue stuff.

Lou
--
Posted by news://news.nb.nu

john said:

Nate Knutson wrote:

-snip-

Quoted message said:

What I
have been doing for a while now is using a few drops of wicking
low-strength oil-resistant Loctite on each limit screw on all the bikes
I work on. It wicks, so I just drop it carefully around the outside of
the screw and it seems to get in well enough to do its thing.

-snip-

Which Loctite do you use, Nate?

Thanks, John

This:
http://www.biketoolsetc.com/index.cgi?id=958263219717&d=single&c=Shop-Aids&sc=Thread-Locking&tc=&item_id=ND-150-10

This ND one is the only one I've used to date; I'm sure the Loctite 290
it's a copy of would do the same thing. My 10mL bottle has done many,
many derailers.

I said it was "low" strength but I guess that's not what it's described
as there; it does seem to be a step down from the blue stuff (242/243)
though. Blue Loctite or the ND version of it would work just as well or
better I'm sure, but they'd require you to fully remove and then
re-install and re-set the screws. It'd be fine for a home mechanic
though, especially since blue loctite has many other uses that can come
up on bikes and the wicking stuff really doesn't.

Nate Knutson said:

john said:

Nate Knutson wrote:

-snip-

Quoted message said:

What I
have been doing for a while now is using a few drops of wicking
low-strength oil-resistant Loctite on each limit screw on all the bikes
I work on. It wicks, so I just drop it carefully around the outside of
the screw and it seems to get in well enough to do its thing.

-snip-

Which Loctite do you use, Nate?

Thanks, John

This:
http://www.biketoolsetc.com/index.cgi?id=958263219717&d=single&c=Shop-Aids&sc=Thread-Locking&tc=&item_id=ND-150-10

This ND one is the only one I've used to date; I'm sure the Loctite 290
it's a copy of would do the same thing. My 10mL bottle has done many,
many derailers.

I said it was "low" strength but I guess that's not what it's described
as there; it does seem to be a step down from the blue stuff (242/243)
though. Blue Loctite or the ND version of it would work just as well or
better I'm sure, but they'd require you to fully remove and then
re-install and re-set the screws. It'd be fine for a home mechanic
though, especially since blue loctite has many other uses that can come
up on bikes and the wicking stuff really doesn't.

Oh, and beeswax and probably numerous other types of wax would be fine
too.

Quoted message said:

dvt said:

Quoted message said:

On 15 Sep 2006 17:17:49 -0700, "Nate Knutson" <[email hidden]>
wrote:
> [email hidden] wrote:

Quoted message said:

>> The economic explanation is a bit suspect. BikeToolsEtc sells spoke
>> protectors at a profit for $1.95, presumably with a hefty markup:
>>
>> http://www.biketoolsetc.com/index.cgi?id=440435462942&c=Components&sc=Accessories&tc=Spoke-Protectors
>> or http://tinyurl.com/rnul2

Quoted message said:

> I don't mean to imply I know a whole lot about the economics of spoke
> protectors, but these are cheaper than usual, or at least cheaper than
> an LBS could sell them for. I'll go out on a limb and say that the
> wholesale cost for some (Shimano ones from QBP) is $2.90 each... making
> them likely to show up in many LBS's in the $6-7 range. My experience
> putting such price tags on them is what led to my original comment.

Quoted message said:

You're right--QBP through Sheldon shows $5.95 for Dimension spoke
protectors that BikeToolsEtc sells for a profit at $1.95:

http://harriscyclery.net/page.cfm?PageID=49&action=list&searchtype=search&keywords=spoke+protector&Brand=
or http://tinyurl.com/qhb2f

Gracious, who would have thought that the markup on small parts can be
so impressive!

Comparing the $1.95 price at BikeToolsEtc to $6-7 at the LBS is unfair.
The price at Bike Tools Etc. is "$1.95 plus shipping." I plugged in
Colorado and the least expensive shipping option to find that shipping
for that item was $6.00.

It wouldn't be unusual for someone to buy other parts in the same order,
reducing the cost of shipping per item, but the comparison is hardly as
simple as $2 vs. $6-7.

Quoted message said:

Whatever the number, it's odd that Jobst with a derailleur that can't
limit overshift doesn't use a spoke protector.

What's even odder is that he bristles when someone tries to help him
with that problem...

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/browse_thread/thread/887853515aca01a0/5fef5500567d4e3b?&hl=en#5fef5500567d4e3b
or http://tinyurl.com/nx9x7

Dear Dave,

"Fair" is usually tricky when comparing mail order prices.

The QBP price for a plastic spoke guard through Sheldon is $5.95 plus
a minimum 4-lb, $9 shipping UPS Ground to Western states.

Sheldon needs to talk to FedEx....LOTS cheaper and no '4lb'
minimum...or USPS...1 pound or less for $4.05...2-3 days

Quoted message said:

That's $14.95 total, about twice as much as the BikeToolsEtc price of
$1.95 plus $6 shipping to Colorado, $7.95.

Shipping often costs more than an itty-bitty plastic part.

At the local bike shop, you pay for the convenience of instant access.
A local bike shop (or RBT poster with a private fleet) can order 10
spoke guards for $25.50, including the same $6 shipping from
BikeToolsEtc.

The RBT poster could gloat over equipping his two-wheeled horde for
only $2.55 each, instead of the $58.50, $5.85 per bike, cost of QBP.

The local bike shop dealer could slowly sell the same spoke guards for
$6-7 each, about twice what they cost him. He wouldn't "make" twice
what they cost him because he doesn't make a dime before he pays for
rent, phones, lights, heat, employees, advertising, shop tools,
business licenses, insurance, and so forth.

The true cost of small parts is rarely their price. It's your
convenience. At the hardware store, when you finally find the screws
that you want, you might as well buy the box for $3 instead of paying
a quarter for just the two screws that you need--if you lose one screw
or ever need another, then you've saved the cost of the trip to the
store.

As you point out, most people try to order more than just one part.
They do this partly to plan ahead, but also partly because they hate
the idea of paying $6 or $9 shipping on a plastic spoke guard that
would fit in a manila envelope with a dollar's worth of stamps.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel