HID Recommendations for Commuting?

"David Murata" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:_7vhb.727527$uu5.123779@sccrnsc04...

Quoted message said:

Does anybody have any recommendations for any of the HID lights for commuting?

Probably unnecessary, but...

Quoted message said:

My return trip home is 10mi and usually starts between 8-9pm at night through several busy South
SF Bay area intersections. Although I wear reflective clothing, use a head and tail light and ride
in the bike lanes for 9 out of the 10 miles, I was still clipped by a motorist who made a right
turn in front of me. The driver claims that she didn't see me and as a result, maximizing my
visibility at night is my number one priority right now.

It seems to me you're probably doing enough to stay visible. The thing is, what else is that driver
going to say? It's likely he *did* see you, but cut too close anyway. I've had this happen.

That said, a HID lamp really makes your presence known. From behind, your figure will be clearly
sihouetted against a lighted area brighter than a car headlight's.

Quoted message said:

I'm currently trying to decide between the Cateye Stadium 3, Nightsun SpARC XC, Light & Motion ARC
or NiteRider Flamethrower handlebar lights. My concerns are reliability, the effectiveness of the
smart battery charger, and the longevity of the battery itself. Cost is a secondary issue. I do
realize that I will have to replace the bulb with frequent use but I don't want to have to replace
the battery every season or the other parts such as the ballast for the lifetime of the light.
Does anyone have any long term experiences or recommendations?

I'm pretty sure the Nightsun comes with a true, "smart" charger. I'm not so sure about the others.
However, of those companies, Nightrider probably offers the best customer service.

You might ask your question on the Bikecurrent mailing list, where all the real lighting experts
hang out. They'll tell you more than you ever wanted to know.
:-) You could probably buy any of those systems and be perfectly satisfied, but
it's a big purchase, so why not get some expert advice?

Matt O.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by David Murata
Does anybody have any recommendations for any of the HID lights for commuting?

My return trip home is 10mi and usually starts between 8-9pm at night through several busy South SF
Bay area intersections. Although I wear reflective clothing, use a head and tail light and ride in
the bike lanes for 9 out of the 10 miles, I was still clipped by a motorist who made a right turn in
front of me. The driver claims that she didn't see me and as a result, maximizing my visibility at
night is my number one priority right now.

I'm currently trying to decide between the Cateye Stadium 3, Nightsun SpARC XC, Light & Motion ARC
or NiteRider Flamethrower handlebar lights. My concerns are reliability, the effectiveness of the
smart battery charger, and the longevity of the battery itself. Cost is a secondary issue. I do
realize that I will have to replace the bulb with frequent use but I don't want to have to replace
the battery every season or the other parts such as the ballast for the lifetime of the light. Does
anyone have any long term experiences or recommendations?

Thanks in advance. Dave

I use Cateye Stadium. It helps seeing and being seen.
However, the battery on this unit wears out after about 400 charge/discharge cycles. I would expect the same on the other units, as this is what current battery technology gives us.
Bulbs burn out and are subject to shock.
I use 3 lights on the front, including a wide angle blinking unit.
Reflective clothing, vest, helmet tape, ankle bands, helmet lghting fore and aft, wheel reflectors, reflective tire sidewalls, etc. all help. However, many drivers "don't see" bicycle riders, for a variety of reasons.

"David Murata" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:_7vhb.727527$uu5.123779@sccrnsc04...

Quoted message said:

Does anybody have any recommendations for any of the HID lights for commuting?

My return trip home is 10mi and usually starts between 8-9pm at night through several busy South
SF Bay area intersections. Although I wear reflective clothing, use a head and tail light and ride
in the bike lanes for 9 out of the 10 miles, I was

still

Quoted message said:

clipped by a motorist who made a right turn in front of me. The driver claims that she didn't

see

Quoted message said:

me and as a result, maximizing my visibility at night is my number one priority right now.

I'm currently trying to decide between the Cateye Stadium 3, Nightsun

SpARC

Quoted message said:

XC, Light & Motion ARC or NiteRider Flamethrower handlebar lights. My

concerns

Quoted message said:

are reliability, the effectiveness of the smart battery charger, and the longevity of the battery
itself. Cost is a secondary issue. I do realize that I will have to

replace

Quoted message said:

the bulb with frequent use but I don't want to have to replace the battery every season

or

Quoted message said:

the other parts such as the ballast for the lifetime of the light. Does anyone have any long term
experiences or recommendations?

Thanks in advance. Dave

You might also need additional rear lighting, to compensate for the effect of city lights and
oncoming car headlights. An additional rear flasher could help (get one of the super-bright
xenon models).

You might also think about getting an "emergency strobe" (check with outdoor or scuba stores). When
I used to commute by bike, I mounted one of these on the back of the bike (in addition to the
standard blinkie). It emitted an extremely bright white flash about once every second or two, and
the effect was pretty dramatic - it was like lightning going off behind my bike. The manufacturer
claimed it could be seen from over 2 miles away, and I believe
it. Several times cars pulled up alongside me and commented how I was "lit up like a Christmas
tree"...just what I wanted to hear.

--
~_-* ...G/ \G cyclistats.comcyclistats.comOpen ↗ CycliStats - Software for Cyclists

"David Murata" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:_7vhb.727527$uu5.123779@sccrnsc04...

Quoted message said:

Does anybody have any recommendations for any of the HID lights for commuting?

My return trip home is 10mi and usually starts between 8-9pm at night through several busy South
SF Bay area intersections. Although I wear reflective clothing, use a head and tail light and ride
in the bike lanes for 9 out of the 10 miles, I was

still

Quoted message said:

clipped by a motorist who made a right turn in front of me. The driver claims that she didn't

see

Quoted message said:

me and as a result, maximizing my visibility at night is my number one priority right now.

I'm currently trying to decide between the Cateye Stadium 3, Nightsun

SpARC

Quoted message said:

XC, Light & Motion ARC or NiteRider Flamethrower handlebar lights. My

concerns

Quoted message said:

are reliability, the effectiveness of the smart battery charger, and the longevity of the battery
itself. Cost is a secondary issue. I do realize that I will have to

replace

Quoted message said:

the bulb with frequent use but I don't want to have to replace the battery every season

or

Quoted message said:

the other parts such as the ballast for the lifetime of the light. Does anyone have any long term
experiences or recommendations?

Thanks in advance. Dave

This page (lifesaving.compage29.htmlOpen ↗) shows the emergency
strobe I used to use when commuting. They claim it can be seen from 3 miles away. Unlike some
other units, it uses a D cell battery, so it will run quite a while on one battery. It is a
seriously bright light.

--
~_-* ...G/ \G cyclistats.comcyclistats.comOpen ↗ CycliStats - Software for Cyclists

Matt O'Toole said:

You might ask your question on the Bikecurrent mailing list, where all the real lighting experts
hang out. They'll tell you more than

Where can this mailing list be found?
--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

"Per Elmsäter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Matt O'Toole wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You might ask your question on the Bikecurrent mailing list, where all the real lighting experts
hang out. They'll tell you more than

Where can this mailing list be found?

Try topica.combikecurrentOpen ↗

Matt O.

In article _7vhb.727527$uu5.123779@sccrnsc04 said:

I was still clipped by a motorist
who made a right turn in front of
me. The driver claims that she
didn't see me

She may have assumed that you were moving much more slowly than you actually were, and therefore
assumed that she had passed you when she had not completely passed you. In suburban areas, motorists
may be conditioned by the child bicyclist population to expect bicyclists to be very slow moving,
contributing to motorist errors based on misjudging a bicyclist's speed.

But also be careful about your own lane positioning. If the right lane is a right turn only lane and
you are not turning right, you want to be to the left of the right turn only lane as you approach
the intersection.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy J. Lee Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome. No warranty of any kind is
provided with this message.

Matt O'Toole said:

"Per Elmsäter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Matt O'Toole wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You might ask your question on the Bikecurrent mailing list, where all the real lighting experts
hang out. They'll tell you more than

Where can this mailing list be found?

Try topica.combikecurrentOpen ↗

Matt O.

Thanks. I have joined already 😉
--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

I commute by bicycle 14, 26 or 38 miles round trip, depending on laziness. I used a Light & Motion
ARC all last winter, and I love it! Recharges fast, can be left on the charger, as bright as I could
want and easy to mount and unmount. Never ran out of batteries either. I got the helmet adapter so I
could use it for off-road night rides, but haven't used it yet.

I've recommended it to my friends who commute in the dark. It's an awesome light. Also, the people
at the company are friendly and helpful.

I have had niterider lights in the past and was not impressed with them. I had several lamp
assemblies come apart internally. I've also used TamTorch, (remember them?) HeadLight (ditto) and
some of the Cateyes. Light & Motion is the best so far.

Morgan Fletcher Oakland, CA

Quoted message said:

Does anybody have any recommendations for any of the HID lights for commuting?

My return trip home is 10mi and usually starts between 8-9pm at night through several busy South
SF Bay area intersections. Although I wear reflective clothing, use a head and tail light and ride
in the bike lanes for 9 out of the 10 miles, I was still clipped by a motorist who made a right
turn in front of me. The driver claims that she didn't see me and as a result, maximizing my
visibility at night is my number one priority right now.

i use a NR Storm (helmet mount) mostly to discourage such buttheads but even tho i've illuminated
the interior of the car, every now & then they'll still cut me off. it's truly amazing how far up
the ass they can stuff their head. it's also good for "forcing" a car to give you a wide berth
-just look down & left at the road. i've heard good things about the Light & Motion.

"Timothy J. Lee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article _7vhb.727527$uu5.123779@sccrnsc04 said:

I was still clipped by a
motorist who made a right turn
in front of me. The driver
claims that she didn't see me

She may have assumed that you were moving much more slowly than you actually were, and therefore
assumed that she had passed you when she had not completely passed you. In suburban areas,
motorists may be conditioned by the child bicyclist population to expect bicyclists to be very
slow moving, contributing to motorist errors based on misjudging a bicyclist's speed.

This is true. IME, this is one of the leading hazards for cyclists. Over the years, it's probably
the #1 thing I've had to learn, to watch for and make adjustments for.

Children are not the only ones who ride slowly. *Most* adults ride slowly too. Most people here are
enthusiasts, and relatively fast riders. We don't recognize/remember those others because they're
not our immediate peers.

Matt O.

David Murata said:

tail light and ride in the bike lanes for 9 out of the 10 miles, I was still clipped by a motorist
who made a right turn in front of me. The driver claims that she didn't see me and as a

You do know that this happens in bright daylight as well, right? They will still claim they did not
see you, even if you are lit up like a Christmas tree.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | It is a scientifically proven fact that a mid life crisis can _`\(,_ | only be cured by
something racy and Italian. Bianchis and (_)/ (_) | Colnagos are a lot cheaper than Maserattis
and Ferraris. -- Glenn Davies

here is a page that may help too. mtbr.combeampattern.shtmlOpen ↗

--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices See
knight-toolworks.comknight-toolworks.comOpen ↗ For prices and ordering instructions.

In article <_7vhb.727527$uu5.123779@sccrnsc04>,

David Murata said:

Does anybody have any recommendations for any of the HID lights for commuting?

My return trip home is 10mi and usually starts between 8-9pm at night through several busy South
SF Bay area intersections. Although I wear reflective clothing, use a head and tail light and ride
in the bike lanes for 9 out of the 10 miles, I was still clipped by a motorist who made a right
turn in front of me. The driver claims that she didn't see me and as a result, maximizing my
visibility at night is my number one priority right now.

I'm currently trying to decide between the Cateye Stadium 3, Nightsun SpARC XC, Light & Motion ARC
or NiteRider Flamethrower handlebar lights. My concerns are reliability, the effectiveness of the
smart battery charger, and the longevity of the battery itself. Cost is a secondary issue. I do
realize that I will have to replace the bulb with frequent use but I don't want to have to replace
the battery every season or the other parts such as the ballast for the lifetime of the light.
Does anyone have any long term experiences or recommendations?

Thanks in advance. Dave

The problem with bike lights is that they're too small. They're just a dimensionless point of light
that can be mistaken for a distant reflector or house lamp. The distance can't be judged easily.
I've been caught off guard by others with bike lights even while I was also on a bike.

I think the best thing you can do is create a large illuminated surface. Use multiple lights and put
a fat strip of reflective tape on the front of the bike that will catch the headlights of cars. Give
your night illumination some dimensions that will catch a brain's attention as an obstacle.

I'm using a home made lamp that's a carbon fiber parabolic mirror with two 2.5W 228mm CCFL lamps.
It's only good for about 15 MPH worth of visibility to me but others can see it half a mile away.
The reflective opening is 2.25 x 10.25 inches of purplish light that's easy for for others to
recognize as a nearby object. It and the tail light total 550mA @ 12V, which is being supplied by
NiMH packs. A crummy photo of it is here:

pixelmemory.usAlien%20Bike%20Light%203.0.JPGOpen ↗

"David Murata" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<_7vhb.727527$uu5.123779@sccrnsc04>...

Quoted message said:

Does anybody have any recommendations for any of the HID lights for commuting?

My return trip home is 10mi and usually starts between 8-9pm at night through several busy South
SF Bay area intersections. Although I wear reflective clothing, use a head and tail light and ride
in the bike lanes for 9 out of the 10 miles, I was still clipped by a motorist who made a right
turn in front of me. The driver claims that she didn't see me and as a result, maximizing my
visibility at night is my number one priority right now.

<cut>

Dave

I have what I think is the ultimate "be seen" setup.

Two 12V xenon strobe flashers (white front, red rear), driven by a pack of 10 NiMh batteries.
Batteries last ages (I don't run them flat so can't give a precise figure, but certainly > 8 hours
with no reduction in flash rate). Imagine a camera flash, but continuous flashes and you are on the
right track.

The xenon strobes I use are well packaged in sealed plastic units, easily mounted, and have
excellent side visibility too, ideal for right turns and roundabouts.

I also whated a setup that would work in fog and, crucially, be seen by drivers just setting off in
the morning with iced up and misted windscreens (is this just a UK problem or does it happen
everywhere?).

I know they get me seen from the behaviour/reaction of drivers. My work colleagues point out that
they are almost certainly not street legal in the UK, but I put visibility above legality here.

Cost 2x flashers £9.99 each 12 1800Ah NiMh batteries (£12.99) and 65p for battery holder. All from
maplin.co.uk, I already had a smart charger.

Andrew Webster

Kevin McMurtrie said:

The problem with bike lights is that they're too small. They're just a dimensionless point of light
that can be mistaken for a distant reflector or house lamp. The distance can't be judged easily.

I have the same opinion and expirience, your eyes can not focus on a bright point.

Quoted message said:

I think the best thing you can do is create a large illuminated surface.

Yep. your body, dressed up in bright clothes should do in lit up areas. In unlit areas you could lit
up your body with a lamp shining towards you. Mind not to dazzle yourself. (shild off the light that
is directed to your head) In Belgium lots of motorcycledrivers use this technique to be recognised
as motorcycledriver, and not as a point of light amongst all the other points of light. I think it
is not that important to be seen from far away. Fast recognition as a fast moving person and fast
judging of the distance, direction and speed is far more important in my opinion. The huge lit up
spot on the ground when HID are used have a simular effect!

Yannik

GaryG garyg@shasta_SPAMBEGONE_software.com said:

You might also think about getting an "emergency strobe" (check with outdoor or scuba stores). When
I used to commute by bike, I mounted one of these on the back of the bike (in addition to the
standard blinkie). It emitted an extremely bright white flash about once every second or two, and
the effect was pretty dramatic - it was like lightning going off behind my bike.

What an excellent idea, to make blinding flashes in the face of motorists who may be about to
overtake. Perhaps you should add an oil slick dispenser as well to help them lose control and
pile into you.
--
David Damerell <[email hidden]> Kill the tomato!

"David Damerell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

GaryG garyg@shasta_SPAMBEGONE_software.com said:

You might also think about getting an "emergency strobe" (check with

outdoor

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

or scuba stores). When I used to commute by bike, I mounted one of these

on

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the back of the bike (in addition to the standard blinkie). It emitted

an

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

extremely bright white flash about once every second or two, and the

effect

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

was pretty dramatic - it was like lightning going off behind my bike.

What an excellent idea, to make blinding flashes in the face of motorists who may be about to
overtake. Perhaps you should add an oil slick dispenser as well to help them lose control and pile
into you.
--
David Damerell <[email hidden]> Kill the tomato!

Well, it wasn't THAT bright...it's only powered by a single D-cell. And, I aimed it mostly at the
ground. In 3 years of regular usage, I never once had a car or a cop complain about it. I did,
however, have quite a few occasions where cars pulled alongside me to comment, "Wow...you're lit up
like a Christmas tree, dude!".

--
~_-* ...G/ \G cyclistats.comcyclistats.comOpen ↗ CycliStats - Software for Cyclists

GaryG garyg@shasta_SPAMBEGONE_software.com said:

"David Damerell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

[Vile quoting tidied up]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It emitted an extremely bright white flash about once every second or two, and the effect was
pretty dramatic - it was like lightning going off behind my bike.

What an excellent idea, to make blinding flashes in the face of motorists who may be about to
overtake.

Well, it wasn't THAT bright...

That's odd. A few days ago it was extremely bright, like lightning.
--
David Damerell <[email hidden]> Kill the tomato!