Voigt Wow

Ernst Noch wrote:

Sorry but, outspoken outshmoken. His comments are irrelevant to his
actual doping status. Such status may only be shown by pissing in a
cup, bleeding in a vial, or through the "certified" documents of
various national police investigative bodies. Don't you read the news?

Voigt is fantastic though.

"Ernst Noch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

One of the greatest displays of fighting spirit I've ever seen. If you
have a chance to watch the finish of today's stage in the Tour of Germany,
do it.

Goddamn is this guy tough.

Oh, and to get past the RBR moderators: At a time where doping in cycling
is extremely in the spotlight, we see Voigt, an outspoken dopers critique
having the yellow in a tour and carrying it through the mountains.
Coincidence?

Maybe you ought to look at Jens performance and the profile. Voigt has
demonstrated his substantial performance time and time again. But he also
has shown the inability to keep up the climbing rates of the best climbers.
That he has been showing well in the German tour tells us that he is really
on a boil and that the route is not so difficult that he is being murdered.
Remember that Hincapie is in a similar position.

Hunter said:

Ernst Noch wrote:

Sorry but, outspoken outshmoken. His comments are irrelevant to his
actual doping status. Such status may only be shown by pissing in a
cup, bleeding in a vial, or through the "certified" documents of
various national police investigative bodies. Don't you read the news?

Voigt is fantastic though.

Yes, I watched it too and I must say I can't watch a race without
wondering who's on what now...nice tunnel shots though at the end.

On Mon, 07 Aug 2006 16:44:39 GMT, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com>

Quoted message said:

"Ernst Noch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

One of the greatest displays of fighting spirit I've ever seen. If you
have a chance to watch the finish of today's stage in the Tour of Germany,
do it.

Goddamn is this guy tough.

Oh, and to get past the RBR moderators: At a time where doping in cycling
is extremely in the spotlight, we see Voigt, an outspoken dopers critique
having the yellow in a tour and carrying it through the mountains.
Coincidence?

Maybe you ought to look at Jens performance and the profile. Voigt has
demonstrated his substantial performance time and time again.

Especially on the first ITT of the tour where he finished last ! Not
to mention his appalling chase trying to reel in Landis on the way to
Morzine, it was so bad that T-Mobile had to send in Gonthar.

Quoted message said:

But he also
has shown the inability to keep up the climbing rates of the best climbers.
That he has been showing well in the German tour tells us that he is really
on a boil and that the route is not so difficult that he is being murdered.
Remember that Hincapie is in a similar position.

Where ?

"Ernst Noch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Goddamn is this guy tough.

Tom Kunich said:

That he has been showing well in the German tour tells us that he is really
on a boil

Ouch, he really must be tough (or doing the whole stage standing).

Tom Kunich said:

Maybe you ought to look at Jens performance and the profile. Voigt has
demonstrated his substantial performance time and time again. But he also
has shown the inability to keep up the climbing rates of the best climbers.
That he has been showing well in the German tour tells us that he is really
on a boil and that the route is not so difficult that he is being murdered.

more Voigt climbing prowess:

http://tinyurl.com/s387f

Ernst Noch said:

Oh, and to get past the RBR moderators: At a time where doping in
cycling is extremely in the spotlight, we see Voigt, an outspoken dopers
critique having the yellow in a tour and carrying it through the
mountains. Coincidence?

I believe in Jens Voigt.
The look on his face when Bjarne told him to wait in the Tour told me
everything I needed to know.

(You can judge results by means of facial expressions, you know.)

Keith said:

Tom Kunich' cyclintom@yahoo. com said:

"Ernst Noch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Goddamn is this guy tough.

Oh, and to get past the RBR moderators: At a time where doping in cycling
is extremely in the spotlight, we see Voigt, an outspoken dopers critique
having the yellow in a tour and carrying it through the mountains.
Coincidence?

Maybe you ought to look at Jens performance and the profile. Voigt has
demonstrated his substantial performance time and time again.

Especially on the first ITT of the tour where he finished last ! Not
to mention his appalling chase trying to reel in Landis on the way to
Morzine, it was so bad that T-Mobile had to send in Gonthar.

Keith, you're a very enthusiastic fan. Passionate, in fact.
You know what sucks about this particular brand of passion?
You talk trash about the riders when they have a bad day, like
you're talking trash about Voigt. You get all emotionally bound
up with them, and then when one of them tests positive you rant
and rave about what a horrible cheater he is. They're doping
not because dope tastes good, but because of the pressure
to perform and produce results, and where does that pressure
come from? Right, the fans, the devoted and passionate fans,
that tear them down whenever they fail to live up to the fans'
exaggerated expectations.

Go ahead, suspend the dopers - the ones that get caught, and
remember many of them aren't getting caught. I'm not arguing
for legalization. I'm just tired of reading righteous people
blaming the riders for their own unrealistic emotional investments
in the sport. Try to remember it next time someone calls
VDB "classy" or trashes a Voigt or Leipheimer for not being
superhuman.

Ben

Stu Fleming said:

Ernst Noch said:

Oh, and to get past the RBR moderators: At a time where doping in
cycling is extremely in the spotlight, we see Voigt, an outspoken
dopers critique having the yellow in a tour and carrying it through
the mountains. Coincidence?

I believe in Jens Voigt.
The look on his face when Bjarne told him to wait in the Tour told me
everything I needed to know.

(You can judge results by means of facial expressions, you know.)

I saw an "interview" with him which was quite interesting. Well, the
"interview" consisted of some dumbass reporter going around in the
starting field of one Tour of Germany stage, and asking every rider they
could get hold of: "So, did you already take your dope this morning?"

Jens got totally angry, I thought he would beat up this idiot. The
reaction was really emotional, and my feeling is you don't react in that
way if you really dope.
If I imagine the situation where Jens was in a position to be caught in
a doping test, while knowing he didn't do anything, he'd react in a way
which many people would have expected from Landis. Not that I want to
conclude anything about Landis, but you'd be sure that Voigt would be
totally out of himself.

"Ernst Noch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I saw an "interview" with him which was quite interesting. Well, the
"interview" consisted of some dumbass reporter going around in the
starting field of one Tour of Germany stage, and asking every rider they
could get hold of: "So, did you already take your dope this morning?"

Jens got totally angry, I thought he would beat up this idiot. The
reaction was really emotional, and my feeling is you don't react in that
way if you really dope.

That sounds like a reasonably safe doping control test to me. Maybe you can
submit it to the UCI.

Ernst Noch said:

Voigt, an outspoken dopers critique

I didn't know he was outspoken against doping.

JT

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John Forrest Tomlinson said:

Ernst Noch said:

Voigt, an outspoken dopers critique

I didn't know he was outspoken against doping.

Note, I said dopers.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2006/tour06/news/?id=/news/2006/jul06/jul18news2

under "Voigt supports DNA bank".

"""
[...]
Voigt addressed the Operation Puerto doping scandal in an interview with
the German newspaper, Süddeutsche Zeitung. He noted that he is not
immune from doping rumors. When he doesn't ride well or when he rides
well, or even the fact that he rides the complete season -- everything
creates rumors. "And all I do is train very hard, I know what I'm doing,
and my wife Steffi would knock my head off if I did that kind of [censored]."

Is he angry at his colleagues? "Yes, sure, that makes me sick! My wife
is worried every day when she brings the kids to school, that somebody
is going to say something dumb to her. And it really irritates me: I,
who have absolutely nothing to do with any of this and who is totally
innocent, have to talk about it -- and those who have brought all this
[censored] down on us, are hiding."
[...]
"""

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/spiegel/0,1518,424862,00.html

"""
And in his declarations of rage against the fraudsters, Jens Voigt of
the CSC racing team like an inquisitor: "Burn them on the stake!"
"""

"Ernst Noch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I saw an "interview" with him which was quite interesting. Well, the
"interview" consisted of some dumbass reporter going around in the
starting field of one Tour of Germany stage, and asking every rider they
could get hold of: "So, did you already take your dope this morning?"

Jens got totally angry, I thought he would beat up this idiot. The
reaction was really emotional, and my feeling is you don't react in that
way if you really dope.
If I imagine the situation where Jens was in a position to be caught in a
doping test, while knowing he didn't do anything, he'd react in a way
which many people would have expected from Landis. Not that I want to
conclude anything about Landis, but you'd be sure that Voigt would be
totally out of himself.

Ernst, wasn't Jens from the old East Germany? And wasn't he in their
programs? And didn't the East Germans dope their riders telling them it was
"vitamins"?

Maybe THAT'S why Jens is so outspoken?

Mark said:

"Ernst Noch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I saw an "interview" with him which was quite interesting. Well, the
"interview" consisted of some dumbass reporter going around in the
starting field of one Tour of Germany stage, and asking every rider they
could get hold of: "So, did you already take your dope this morning?"

Jens got totally angry, I thought he would beat up this idiot. The
reaction was really emotional, and my feeling is you don't react in that
way if you really dope.

That sounds like a reasonably safe doping control test to me. Maybe you can
submit it to the UCI.

Dumbass, Stu and I were talking about subjective feelings about what
kind of guy we think Voigt is and marked it as such.
I'm sure there are plenty of threads at the moment where applying
smart-assness is more appropriate.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Maybe you ought to look at Jens performance and the profile. Voigt has
demonstrated his substantial performance time and time again.

Especially on the first ITT of the tour where he finished last ! Not
to mention his appalling chase trying to reel in Landis on the way to
Morzine, it was so bad that T-Mobile had to send in Gonthar.

Keith, you're a very enthusiastic fan. Passionate, in fact.
You know what sucks about this particular brand of passion?
You talk trash about the riders when they have a bad day, like
you're talking trash about Voigt. You get all emotionally bound
up with them, and then when one of them tests positive you rant
and rave about what a horrible cheater he is. They're doping
not because dope tastes good, but because of the pressure
to perform and produce results, and where does that pressure
come from? Right, the fans, the devoted and passionate fans,
that tear them down whenever they fail to live up to the fans'
exaggerated expectations.

No actually I don't mind anyone having a bad day, Landis' bad day was
spectacular and made for an exciting race. I guess I never really
forgave Voigt for chasing down Ullrich in 2004 on the way to Villard
de Lans to defend Basso's third place.

Ernst Noch <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Oh, and to get past the RBR moderators: At a time where doping in
cycling is extremely in the spotlight, we see Voigt, an outspoken dopers
critique having the yellow in a tour and carrying it through the
mountains. Coincidence?

Funny how changing a few words puts an entirely different spin on it . . .

At a time where doping in cycling is extremely in the spotlight, we see
Voigt, an *** employee of Mr. 60% *** having the yellow in a tour and
carrying it through the mountains. Coincidence?

NS
devil's advocate

"Keith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

I guess I never really forgave Voigt for chasing down Ullrich in 2004 on
the way to Villard

Quoted message said:

de Lans to defend Basso's third place.

OK, I'll bite. Why are you upset at Jens for chasing down Jan?

Keith said:

I guess I never really
forgave Voigt for chasing down Ullrich in 2004 on the way to Villard
de Lans to defend Basso's third place.

Did you call him "betrayer, deceiver, pig, rat, Armstrong-helper,
liar" like he says some people did?

JT

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Frank Drackman said:

"Keith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

I guess I never really forgave Voigt for chasing down Ullrich in 2004 on
the way to Villard

Quoted message said:

de Lans to defend Basso's third place.

OK, I'll bite. Why are you upset at Jens for chasing down Jan?

Poor sportmanship, USP should have been doing the chasing.