Defining "clean" ?

Here is a definition of not clean:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2001/apr01/parisroubaix/knaven_win3.shtml

-ilan

Keith said:

So while we're waiting for the results...as if there's anything to
look forward to, I was wondering how "clean" could be defined?

I guess that technically it is not taking any producs classified as
"dope" by the UCI, WADA. So when Benjo writes that he wouldn't believe
anyone telling him that the Giro winners after Hampsten were clean,
what does it mean ?

1. That they took illegal stuff and didn't get caught
2. Took stuff not illegal at the time but that has become illegal
since, live actovegin found in USP's garbage in 2000
3. Took stuff not stricly illegal but that could have stimulated them,
like coffee each morning, I'm serious.

How about the gels, sugar, salt injections, etc...would that fall in
the "not clean" category ?

"Keith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

So while we're waiting for the results...as if there's anything to
look forward to, I was wondering how "clean" could be defined?

I guess that technically it is not taking any producs classified as
"dope" by the UCI, WADA. So when Benjo writes that he wouldn't believe
anyone telling him that the Giro winners after Hampsten were clean,
what does it mean ?

1. That they took illegal stuff and didn't get caught
2. Took stuff not illegal at the time but that has become illegal
since, live actovegin found in USP's garbage in 2000
3. Took stuff not stricly illegal but that could have stimulated them,
like coffee each morning, I'm serious.

How about the gels, sugar, salt injections, etc...would that fall in
the "not clean" category ?

I used the word "clean" between quotation marks, because for me it's a new
word. That is to say, I knew it only in the meaning Ilan is indicating. But
Americans - or many Americans- use it in another way: a rider is called
"clean" if he isn't using products mentioned on the WADA list. The Dutch and
French language didn't have a special word for it (for the simple reason
that most Europeans hardly gave a second thought to the fact that sportsmen
might use "performance enhancing products"😉. Now that the use of such
products, first seen as a minor breach of rules, seems to become the most
discussed "crime" on earth (next to terrorism), more and more Dutch and even
French sports journalist are starting too using the word "clean" (in
untranslated form) to indicate a athlete using illicit products.
Incidently, "clean" might have a different meaning: when a sportman is
saying he is clean, he might want to say he is never using illicit products,
but usually he is claiming that is only using products which are not
detectable. So if a cyclist is swearing on the heads of his children that he
is "clean", just before it's become clear that he is using hgh, natural
cortisone and epo (until 2001), etc., etc. he is not lying, but is only
misunderstood.

Benjo

On Sat, 5 Aug 2006 03:50:41 +0200, "benjo maso" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Keith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

So while we're waiting for the results...as if there's anything to
look forward to, I was wondering how "clean" could be defined?

I guess that technically it is not taking any producs classified as
"dope" by the UCI, WADA. So when Benjo writes that he wouldn't believe
anyone telling him that the Giro winners after Hampsten were clean,
what does it mean ?

1. That they took illegal stuff and didn't get caught
2. Took stuff not illegal at the time but that has become illegal
since, live actovegin found in USP's garbage in 2000
3. Took stuff not stricly illegal but that could have stimulated them,
like coffee each morning, I'm serious.

How about the gels, sugar, salt injections, etc...would that fall in
the "not clean" category ?

I used the word "clean" between quotation marks, because for me it's a new
word. That is to say, I knew it only in the meaning Ilan is indicating. But
Americans - or many Americans- use it in another way: a rider is called
"clean" if he isn't using products mentioned on the WADA list. The Dutch and
French language didn't have a special word for it (for the simple reason
that most Europeans hardly gave a second thought to the fact that sportsmen
might use "performance enhancing products"😉. Now that the use of such
products, first seen as a minor breach of rules, seems to become the most
discussed "crime" on earth (next to terrorism), more and more Dutch and even
French sports journalist are starting too using the word "clean" (in
untranslated form) to indicate a athlete using illicit products.
Incidently, "clean" might have a different meaning: when a sportman is
saying he is clean, he might want to say he is never using illicit products,
but usually he is claiming that is only using products which are not
detectable. So if a cyclist is swearing on the heads of his children that he
is "clean", just before it's become clear that he is using hgh, natural
cortisone and epo (until 2001), etc., etc. he is not lying, but is only
misunderstood.

Benjo

Thanks for developing and yes they might have been misinterpreted
although their answer doesn't work anymore if they're asked point
blank if they have ever doped.

Is that WADA list public and if not, do we know how many products are
on it ? Is it 50, 500, 5000 ?

"Keith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Sat, 5 Aug 2006 03:50:41 +0200, "benjo maso" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Keith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

So while we're waiting for the results...as if there's anything to
look forward to, I was wondering how "clean" could be defined?

I guess that technically it is not taking any producs classified as
"dope" by the UCI, WADA. So when Benjo writes that he wouldn't believe
anyone telling him that the Giro winners after Hampsten were clean,
what does it mean ?

1. That they took illegal stuff and didn't get caught
2. Took stuff not illegal at the time but that has become illegal
since, live actovegin found in USP's garbage in 2000
3. Took stuff not stricly illegal but that could have stimulated them,
like coffee each morning, I'm serious.

How about the gels, sugar, salt injections, etc...would that fall in
the "not clean" category ?

I used the word "clean" between quotation marks, because for me it's a new
word. That is to say, I knew it only in the meaning Ilan is indicating.
But
Americans - or many Americans- use it in another way: a rider is called
"clean" if he isn't using products mentioned on the WADA list. The Dutch
and
French language didn't have a special word for it (for the simple reason
that most Europeans hardly gave a second thought to the fact that
sportsmen
might use "performance enhancing products"😉. Now that the use of such
products, first seen as a minor breach of rules, seems to become the most
discussed "crime" on earth (next to terrorism), more and more Dutch and
even
French sports journalist are starting too using the word "clean" (in
untranslated form) to indicate a athlete using illicit products.
Incidently, "clean" might have a different meaning: when a sportman is
saying he is clean, he might want to say he is never using illicit
products,
but usually he is claiming that is only using products which are not
detectable. So if a cyclist is swearing on the heads of his children that
he
is "clean", just before it's become clear that he is using hgh, natural
cortisone and epo (until 2001), etc., etc. he is not lying, but is only
misunderstood.

Benjo

Thanks for developing and yes they might have been misinterpreted
although their answer doesn't work anymore if they're asked point
blank if they have ever doped.

Is that WADA list public and if not, do we know how many products are
on it ? Is it 50, 500, 5000 ?

It is public. See http://www.wada-ama.org/rtecontent/document/2006_LIST.pdf

Benjo

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

is "clean", just before it's become clear that he is using hgh, natural
cortisone and epo (until 2001), etc., etc. he is not lying, but is only
misunderstood.

Benjo

Thanks for developing and yes they might have been misinterpreted
although their answer doesn't work anymore if they're asked point
blank if they have ever doped.

Is that WADA list public and if not, do we know how many products are
on it ? Is it 50, 500, 5000 ?

It is public. See http://www.wada-ama.org/rtecontent/document/2006_LIST.pdf

Benjo

Thanks and not that long really, surprise Actovegin is not on that
list, I thought it had been banned since it was found in the USP trash
by France 3.

Keith said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>is "clean", just before it's become clear that he is using hgh, natural
>cortisone and epo (until 2001), etc., etc. he is not lying, but is only
>misunderstood.
>
>Benjo

Thanks for developing and yes they might have been misinterpreted
although their answer doesn't work anymore if they're asked point
blank if they have ever doped.

Is that WADA list public and if not, do we know how many products are
on it ? Is it 50, 500, 5000 ?

It is public. See http://www.wada-ama.org/rtecontent/document/2006_LIST.pdf

Benjo

Thanks and not that long really, surprise Actovegin is not on that
list, I thought it had been banned since it was found in the USP trash
by France 3.

Interesting "old" stuff on it here
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2004/mar04/mar27news

"Keith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Thanks and not that long really, surprise Actovegin is not on that
list, I thought it had been banned since it was found in the USP trash
by France 3.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/more/news/2001/02/14/ioc_actovegin_ap/

On Sat, 5 Aug 2006 03:50:41 +0200, "benjo maso" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I used the word "clean" between quotation marks, because for me it's a new
word. That is to say, I knew it only in the meaning Ilan is indicating. But
Americans - or many Americans- use it in another way: a rider is called
"clean" if he isn't using products mentioned on the WADA list.

Beyond that, I thin kyou have to not be using the 'next' drug, knowing
that it gives yo a clear advantage over your competitors.

I've given up clean. I'm going for sort of the following:

Green: no or low levels of drugs that don't tip the meter and, even if
illegal, really only let you get out of bed in the morning and turn
the cranks.

Blue - low to moderate, mildly performance enhancing, but pretty much
everyone uses them when they hit the low points in the training cycle
and the contract says they have to ride in the morning.

Brown - you know you are a doper and you are at the line, but you have
good excuses. You aren't rying to screw anyone - just keep your
contract one more year (danger zone for aging competitors).

Orange - Man, you better watch your doping regimen, because if
everyone backs away on the wrong day and you get tested, the career is
in the tubes.

Red - Damn, you better make your money quick and buy a bike shop,
because the first time you pee in anything but a john, your career is
over, finished. Keep your hair cut nice for the cameras and shave
every day, and keep the excuse list handy or start logging into rbr.
Start a thread, we can give you a bunch.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

Curtis L. Russell said:

I've given up clean. I'm going for sort of the following:

Green: no or low levels of drugs that don't tip the meter and, even if
Blue - low to moderate, mildly performance enhancing, but pretty much
Brown - you know you are a doper and you are at the line, but you have
Orange - Man, you better watch your doping regimen, because if
Red - Damn, you better make your money quick and buy a bike shop,
because the first time you pee in anything but a john, your career is
over, finished. Keep your hair cut nice for the cameras and shave
every day, and keep the excuse list handy or start logging into rbr.
Start a thread, we can give you a bunch.

In that case why not let the dept. of homeland security take over dope
testing. They're like assigning colours.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Donald Munro said:

Curtis L. Russell said:

I've given up clean. I'm going for sort of the following:

Green: no or low levels of drugs that don't tip the meter and, even if
Blue - low to moderate, mildly performance enhancing, but pretty much
Brown - you know you are a doper and you are at the line, but you have
Orange - Man, you better watch your doping regimen, because if
Red - Damn, you better make your money quick and buy a bike shop,
because the first time you pee in anything but a john, your career is
over, finished. Keep your hair cut nice for the cameras and shave
every day, and keep the excuse list handy or start logging into rbr.
Start a thread, we can give you a bunch.

In that case why not let the dept. of homeland security take over dope
testing. They're like assigning colours.

So where does the plastic sheeting and duct tape come in?

--
tanx,
Howard

Never take a tenant with a monkey.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?