testosterone patch

fg said:

Can a`testosterone patch cause a 1:1 testosterone ratio to
go to a 11:1 in one day? landis was theorized to have used one of
these, and since he had several drug tests that passed in the tour, i
asume it would have been something he allegedly used the night
before the 17th stage. he must have ben aware of his ratio , as voight
mentions.seems like a huge jump for one day. the whole basis for this
test seems shaky, and I wonder if they ever did trials to test the
acuracy of it
and the percentage of false positives, if any.

Yes, you make a good point.

You also might want to consider that Landis was also tested after
stages 18, 19, and 20. The results of these tests also must have
been normal. A point that everyone seems to have missed.
Especially a prosecutorial press.

Quoted message said:

You also might want to consider that Landis was also tested after
stages 18, 19, and 20. The results of these tests also must have
been normal. A point that everyone seems to have missed.
Especially a prosecutorial press.

Another good point. How did the ratio spike up then back down on back
to back days?

Bucky said:

Quoted message said:

You also might want to consider that Landis was also tested after
stages 18, 19, and 20. The results of these tests also must have
been normal. A point that everyone seems to have missed.
Especially a prosecutorial press.

Another good point. How did the ratio spike up then back down on back
to back days?

No, it's not a good point you spunky choads. Test clears the system in
a matter of hours. He forgot to take the patch off his nutsack that
night. It's that simple. Now relax and go back to reading "It's Nut
About the Bike" or whatever it's called.

"fg" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Can a`testosterone patch cause a 1:1 testosterone ratio to
go to a 11:1 in one day? landis was theorized to have used one of
these, and since he had several drug tests that passed in the tour, i
asume it would have been something he allegedly used the night
before the 17th stage. he must have ben aware of his ratio , as voight
mentions.seems like a huge jump for one day. the whole basis for this
test seems shaky, and I wonder if they ever did trials to test the
acuracy of it
and the percentage of false positives, if any.

"Maybe all the patchs that allow the drug to be delivered very slowly,
undetectably, were seized by the police in Spain before the Tour and
poor Floyd was forced to resort to pills (much more unreliable and
unpredictable) just like in the good old 80's ?" by my friend French ; )

"fg" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Can a`testosterone patch cause a 1:1 testosterone ratio to
go to a 11:1 in one day? landis was theorized to have used one of
these, and since he had several drug tests that passed in the tour, i
asume it would have been something he allegedly used the night
before the 17th stage. he must have ben aware of his ratio , as voight
mentions.seems like a huge jump for one day. the whole basis for this
test seems shaky, and I wonder if they ever did trials to test the
acuracy of it
and the percentage of false positives, if any.

"Maybe all the patchs that allow the drug to be delivered very slowly,
undetectably, were seized by the police in Spain before the Tour and
poor Floyd was forced to resort to pills (much more unreliable and
unpredictable) just like in the good old 80's ?" by my friend French ; )

Montesquiou said:

"fg" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Can a`testosterone patch cause a 1:1 testosterone ratio to
go to a 11:1 in one day? landis was theorized to have used one of
these, and since he had several drug tests that passed in the tour, i
asume it would have been something he allegedly used the night
before the 17th stage. he must have ben aware of his ratio , as voight
mentions.seems like a huge jump for one day. the whole basis for this
test seems shaky, and I wonder if they ever did trials to test the
acuracy of it
and the percentage of false positives, if any.

"Maybe all the patchs that allow the drug to be delivered very slowly,
undetectably, were seized by the police in Spain before the Tour and
poor Floyd was forced to resort to pills (much more unreliable and
unpredictable) just like in the good old 80's ?" by my friend French ; )

Or tests used by the WADA lab are defective and this whole thing is a
huge farce.

If you are a beating person, I'lltake book on whether the lab results
hold up on appeal.

Are you game for that?

DA74 said:

Bucky said:

Quoted message said:

You also might want to consider that Landis was also tested after
stages 18, 19, and 20. The results of these tests also must have
been normal. A point that everyone seems to have missed.
Especially a prosecutorial press.

Another good point. How did the ratio spike up then back down on back
to back days?

No, it's not a good point you spunky choads. Test clears the system in
a matter of hours. He forgot to take the patch off his nutsack that
night. It's that simple. Now relax and go back to reading "It's Nut
About the Bike" or whatever it's called.

You are right, the tests themselves are bad and will be thrown out on
appeal. So I'll go to the law books and let you play bikey.

"fg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Can a`testosterone patch cause a 1:1 testosterone ratio to
go to a 11:1 in one day?

No more than 8 hours?

Montesquiou said:

"Maybe all the patchs that allow the drug to be delivered very slowly,
undetectably, were seized by the police in Spain before the Tour and
poor Floyd was forced to resort to pills (much more unreliable and
unpredictable) just like in the good old 80's ?" by my friend French ; )

If the slow-release patch won't trigger tests but still enhanced
performance, then why did they bother to develop the other new
technologies like Human Growth Hormone and THG?

"Bucky" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Montesquiou said:

"Maybe all the patchs that allow the drug to be delivered very slowly,
undetectably, were seized by the police in Spain before the Tour and
poor Floyd was forced to resort to pills (much more unreliable and
unpredictable) just like in the good old 80's ?" by my friend French ; )

If the slow-release patch won't trigger tests but still enhanced
performance, then why did they bother to develop the other new
technologies like Human Growth Hormone and THG?

I don't know, I am not the Floyd's physician

Bucky said:

Montesquiou said:

"Maybe all the patchs that allow the drug to be delivered very slowly,
undetectably, were seized by the police in Spain before the Tour and
poor Floyd was forced to resort to pills (much more unreliable and
unpredictable) just like in the good old 80's ?" by my friend French ; )

If the slow-release patch won't trigger tests but still enhanced
performance, then why did they bother to develop the other new
technologies like Human Growth Hormone and THG?

Possibly because they are undetectable at this point ?

Keith said:

Bucky said:

Montesquiou said:

"Maybe all the patchs that allow the drug to be delivered very slowly,
undetectably, were seized by the police in Spain before the Tour and
poor Floyd was forced to resort to pills (much more unreliable and
unpredictable) just like in the good old 80's ?" by my friend French ; )

If the slow-release patch won't trigger tests but still enhanced
performance, then why did they bother to develop the other new
technologies like Human Growth Hormone and THG?

Possibly because they are undetectable at this point ?

THG is, now anyways, thanks to the ex-coach of a former sprinter who
was married to a shot putter.

Montesquiou said:

Quoted message said:

"Maybe all the patchs that allow the drug to be delivered very slowly,
undetectably, were seized by the police in Spain before the Tour and
poor Floyd was forced to resort to pills (much more unreliable and
unpredictable) just like in the good old 80's ?" by my friend French ; )

Bucky said:

If the slow-release patch won't trigger tests but still enhanced
performance, then why did they bother to develop the other new
technologies like Human Growth Hormone and THG?

What makes you think these drugs are developed for enhancing performance
in sports ?

Donald Munro said:

What makes you think these drugs are developed for enhancing performance
in sports ?

Good point. HGH probably was not developed for sports. But I think THG
was.

Bucky said:

Montesquiou said:

"Maybe all the patchs that allow the drug to be delivered very slowly,
undetectably, were seized by the police in Spain before the Tour and
poor Floyd was forced to resort to pills (much more unreliable and
unpredictable) just like in the good old 80's ?" by my friend French ; )

If the slow-release patch won't trigger tests but still enhanced
performance, then why did they bother to develop the other new
technologies like Human Growth Hormone and THG?

Because test by itself isn't a optimal steroid for
performance. There are lots of steroids, all with
different effects on the human body.

Running test by itself during an endurance event
would be stupid - the bloating would be
counterproductive and taking an estrogen agonist
to counteract the sides would trigger a positive.

--
Scott Johnson / johnson dot sa at comcast dot net

"Donald Munro" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Montesquiou said:

Quoted message said:

"Maybe all the patchs that allow the drug to be delivered very slowly,
undetectably, were seized by the police in Spain before the Tour and
poor Floyd was forced to resort to pills (much more unreliable and
unpredictable) just like in the good old 80's ?" by my friend French ; )

Bucky said:

If the slow-release patch won't trigger tests but still enhanced
performance, then why did they bother to develop the other new
technologies like Human Growth Hormone and THG?

What makes you think these drugs are developed for enhancing performance
in sports ?

More importantly, what leads anyone to believe that testosterone works that
rapidly?

On Tue, 01 Aug 2006 09:55:54 -0500, Scott Johnson

johnson.sa@TIBASICREADY!comcast.net said:

Bucky said:

Montesquiou said:

"Maybe all the patchs that allow the drug to be delivered very slowly,
undetectably, were seized by the police in Spain before the Tour and
poor Floyd was forced to resort to pills (much more unreliable and
unpredictable) just like in the good old 80's ?" by my friend French ; )

If the slow-release patch won't trigger tests but still enhanced
performance, then why did they bother to develop the other new
technologies like Human Growth Hormone and THG?

Because test by itself isn't a optimal steroid for
performance. There are lots of steroids, all with
different effects on the human body.

Running test by itself during an endurance event
would be stupid - the bloating would be
counterproductive and taking an estrogen agonist
to counteract the sides would trigger a positive.

But you're discounting the testosterone reduction of a weeks long endurance
event. The massive amounts of food and vitamins available help offset this but
tests find that weeks of grueling effort seriously suppress testosterone
production.

Ron

Tom Kunich said:

"Donald Munro" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Montesquiou said:

> "Maybe all the patchs that allow the drug to be delivered very slowly,
> undetectably, were seized by the police in Spain before the Tour and
> poor Floyd was forced to resort to pills (much more unreliable and
> unpredictable) just like in the good old 80's ?" by my friend French ; )

Bucky said:

If the slow-release patch won't trigger tests but still enhanced
performance, then why did they bother to develop the other new
technologies like Human Growth Hormone and THG?

What makes you think these drugs are developed for enhancing performance
in sports ?

More importantly, what leads anyone to believe that testosterone works that
rapidly?

Hmm, because for example Jörg Jaksche's Doctor says it, and note that
this was 3 weeks before the Landis affair.

From cyclingnews:

"""
To help recover, testosterone and human growth hormone can be used.
"Both are made by the body and are therefore natural substances," he
said. "They help to build muscle as well as in muscle recovery."

Dr Moosburger explained how it was done. "You put a standard
testosterone patch that is used for male hormone replacement therapy on
your scrotum and leave it there for about six hours. The small dose is
not sufficient to produce a positive urine result in the doping test,
but the body actually recovers faster."

"""

http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2006/tour06/news/?id=/news/2006/jul06/jul07news3

But obviously, he doesn't know what he is talking about.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

More importantly, what leads anyone to believe that testosterone works that
rapidly?

Quoted message said:

Hmm, because for example Jörg Jaksche's Doctor says it, and note that
this was 3 weeks before the Landis affair.

From cyclingnews:

"""
To help recover, testosterone and human growth hormone can be used.
"Both are made by the body and are therefore natural substances," he
said. "They help to build muscle as well as in muscle recovery."

Dr Moosburger explained how it was done. "You put a standard
testosterone patch that is used for male hormone replacement therapy on
your scrotum and leave it there for about six hours. The small dose is
not sufficient to produce a positive urine result in the doping test,
but the body actually recovers faster."

"""

http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2006/tour06/news/?id=/news/2006/jul06/jul07news3

But obviously, he doesn't know what he is talking about.

Like Manzano who recently went on recorde saying it gave an immediate
boost and provided a list of how to inject
http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/10613.0.html

"Its effects are felt almost immediately," Manzano wrote. "It gives
you a lot of force and produces a sort of euphoria."

Manzano outlined three ways to take testosterone during a
competition."