testosterone patch

"Ernst Noch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tom Kunich said:

More importantly, what leads anyone to believe that testosterone works
that rapidly?

Hmm, because for example Jörg Jaksche's Doctor says it, and note that this
was 3 weeks before the Landis affair.

From cyclingnews:

"""
To help recover, testosterone and human growth hormone can be used. "Both
are made by the body and are therefore natural substances," he said. "They
help to build muscle as well as in muscle recovery."

Dr Moosburger explained how it was done. "You put a standard testosterone
patch that is used for male hormone replacement therapy on your scrotum
and leave it there for about six hours. The small dose is not sufficient
to produce a positive urine result in the doping test, but the body
actually recovers faster."

"""

http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2006/tour06/news/?id=/news/2006/jul06/jul07news3

But obviously, he doesn't know what he is talking about.

Think about this Ernst - he's saying that taking it won't test abnormal but
will improve recovery. Uh, what's your "normal" testosterone levels? Who
knows? 300 - 1000 ng/dl is the "book" value but the fact is that it is
something that is expensive to test and so they don't have a large group.

It is different from man to man and varies wildly and CHANGES OVER TIME
unpredictably though the "rule" is that it goes down some 1.2% per year.

Listening to some cyclists say "you can feel the effects immediately" means
absolutely nothing. They said precisely the same thing about iron shots and
we know that had a NEGATIVE effect on performance for most cyclists with
normal iron levels.

Don't believe what you read. It's all a crock designed to sell
advertisements.

"RonSonic" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Tue, 01 Aug 2006 09:55:54 -0500, Scott Johnson

But you're discounting the testosterone reduction of a weeks long
endurance
event. The massive amounts of food and vitamins available help offset this
but
tests find that weeks of grueling effort seriously suppress testosterone
production.

Here's the funny thing - the guys winning testosterone levels don't decrease
and those who are losing do. What came first, the chicken or the egg? Is
winning what causes more testosterone or are those who generate more
testosterone winners?

Tom Kunich said:

Quoted message said:

Hmm, because for example Jörg Jaksche's Doctor says it, and note that this
was 3 weeks before the Landis affair.

From cyclingnews:

"""
To help recover, testosterone and human growth hormone can be used. "Both
are made by the body and are therefore natural substances," he said. "They
help to build muscle as well as in muscle recovery."

Dr Moosburger explained how it was done. "You put a standard testosterone
patch that is used for male hormone replacement therapy on your scrotum
and leave it there for about six hours. The small dose is not sufficient
to produce a positive urine result in the doping test, but the body
actually recovers faster."

"""

http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2006/tour06/news/?id=/news/2006/jul06/jul07news3

But obviously, he doesn't know what he is talking about.

Think about this Ernst - he's saying that taking it won't test abnormal but
will improve recovery. Uh, what's your "normal" testosterone levels? Who
knows? 300 - 1000 ng/dl is the "book" value but the fact is that it is
something that is expensive to test and so they don't have a large group.

It is different from man to man and varies wildly and CHANGES OVER TIME
unpredictably though the "rule" is that it goes down some 1.2% per year.

Listening to some cyclists say "you can feel the effects immediately" means
absolutely nothing. They said precisely the same thing about iron shots and
we know that had a NEGATIVE effect on performance for most cyclists with
normal iron levels.

Don't believe what you read. It's all a crock designed to sell
advertisements.

Look, it's totally uninteresting what *I* believe. The interesting
question is what do the *professional racers* and their *doctors* believe.

Because they'll take what they *believe* gives them performance enhancement.
And this is a *doctor* of *professional racers* who says this, and we
read also other racers testimony.

You know can decide to refute the idea that a cyclist X might have taken
drug Y for a short term effect, because the RBR committee of scientific
evaluation of drug effectiveness has still not decided if Y helps short
term.

I for one prefer to go with what the guys say who have a word in what
gets *really* taken, as race preparation and during a race.

And that's the doctors and the racers.

in message <[email hidden]>, Tom

Kunich ('cyclintom@yahoo. com') said:

"RonSonic" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Tue, 01 Aug 2006 09:55:54 -0500, Scott Johnson

But you're discounting the testosterone reduction of a weeks long
endurance
event. The massive amounts of food and vitamins available help offset
this but
tests find that weeks of grueling effort seriously suppress
testosterone production.

Here's the funny thing - the guys winning testosterone levels don't
decrease and those who are losing do. What came first, the chicken or
the egg? Is winning what causes more testosterone or are those who
generate more testosterone winners?

You would /expect/ the guys who are winning to secrete more
testosterone - it is, after all, what defines the alpha male in a group;
what turns male gorillas into silverbacks.

However, of course, that doesn't necessarily mean that all their extra
testosterone is natural!

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; I put the 'sexy' in 'dyslexia'

Simon Brooke said:

You would /expect/ the guys who are winning to secrete more
testosterone - it is, after all, what defines the alpha male in a group;
what turns male gorillas into silverbacks.

However, of course, that doesn't necessarily mean that all their extra
testosterone is natural!

Gorillas dope ? I thought magilla was a dope.