Fscking Shimano!!

Here's a trick - go to a good tool shop, or a model railway/hobby shop,
and buy the smallest adjustable spanner you can get (40mm long is a
small one). Get a nice precise one
(German/Japanese/Swedish/American/maybe Taiwanese, not Chinese (yet).
This will do for all those silly nipple sizes on alloy and specialist
spokes, with the exception of Mavic Ksyrium alloy nipples (whose keys
are cheap and available). It'll probably be cheaper and quicker. Make
sure you've got a blade key to hold the spoke blades straight, or turn
them back if they've twisted. Make one with a thin slot in a small
block of wood. The Shimano keys have one in the other end of the key.

Ready yourself for the mental gymnastics of figuring our which nipple
to turn, and which way (they're upside down now, don't forget . . . )
🙂

Good luck, and if you run into trouble, let me/us know, I think we can
help . . .

MH

Absent Husband said:

Over the weekend, I noticed my rear wheel was slightly out of true, so
figured that I should pull out the old spoke key and have a fiddle...

The rear is a Shimano r550, which I love by the way (yes, I'm aware of
its reputation!!). Anyway - first of all, I realised that I couldn't
access the drive side nipples unless I took off the cassette (the
nipples are near the hub)!!! *grrr*

Then, after I'd removed the cassette, I discovered that my old nifty
little BBB spoke key (that has 3 sizes for different size nips), was
too small!!

So today, I rang around a few bike shops to find out if they had a
spoke key that would fit (and I could buy). Turns out that I have to
buy a special Shimano spoke key, because they are the only ones that
make 'em that size... *grrrrrr*

I stilll love my Shimano r550 wheels. But not quite as much as I did a
week ago... *grins*

Cheers,
Abby

Quoted message said:

Here's a trick - go to a good tool shop, or a model railway/hobby shop,
and buy the smallest adjustable spanner you can get (40mm long is a
small one).

Or, buy a set of boltcutters, chop the wheel into pieces that will fit
in a bin, and get some decent wheels!

Bleve said:

Or, buy a set of boltcutters, chop the wheel into pieces that will fit
in a bin, and get some decent wheels!

*lmao!*

Thanks Bleve - I was kind of anticipating that sort of response from
you!! *grins*

Quoted message said:

From my research on those wheels (I was inspired by Travis!!), it

seemed that people were either getting wheels that were going
pear-shaped straight away, or wheels that were lasting for ages that
they were very happy with. So it seemed to me that there were good
batches and bad batches...

So then this wheelset came up second hand (Tam put me on to them...).
An r540 front & r550 rear.

The seller told me that he had a pair of r540's. The front was great,
but the rear kept snapping spokes, so Shimano replaced it under
warranty (but with an r550).

So far, I've had about 6 months of trouble-free riding on them
(commuting/training/racing). They feel much, much better than my
previous wheels (Mavic CXP22's on Sora hubs). And I've had no probs,
bar the rear just now coming slightly out of true (nothing serious, I'm
just being an#l about having a super-straight wheel!!).

So you can count me as a data point under "happy with Shimano
wheels..."!! *laughs*

Cheers all (and thanks mfhor for the advice, I'll follow that up...),
Abby

Absent Husband said:

Bleve said:

Or, buy a set of boltcutters, chop the wheel into pieces that will fit
in a bin, and get some decent wheels!

*lmao!*

Thanks Bleve - I was kind of anticipating that sort of response from
you!! *grins*

Quoted message said:

From my research on those wheels (I was inspired by Travis!!), it

seemed that people were either getting wheels that were going
pear-shaped straight away, or wheels that were lasting for ages that
they were very happy with. So it seemed to me that there were good
batches and bad batches...

So then this wheelset came up second hand (Tam put me on to them...).
An r540 front & r550 rear.

You actually *bought* a pair of them?!

They come with a lot of lowend roadies, and that's why there's a lot of
the damn things around. But buying some, by choice?! (Tam ... you and
I are having a -talk- and it will be -stern- 🙂 )

Quoted message said:

The seller told me that he had a pair of r540's. The front was great,
but the rear kept snapping spokes, so Shimano replaced it under
warranty (but with an r550).

So far, I've had about 6 months of trouble-free riding on them
(commuting/training/racing). They feel much, much better than my
previous wheels (Mavic CXP22's on Sora hubs). And I've had no probs,
bar the rear just now coming slightly out of true (nothing serious, I'm
just being an#l about having a super-straight wheel!!).

So you can count me as a data point under "happy with Shimano
wheels..."!! *laughs*

Personal question time: what do you weigh?
At my LBS, we sell a reasonable number of lowend roadies with these
wheels on them, and generally suggest that riders greater than 80kg or
so upgrade the wheels either at purchase-time or as soon as they start
to break. If you're less than that, you might be ok though. That's
been my experience with them anyway.

Bleve said:

Absent Husband wrote:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

So then this wheelset came up second hand (Tam put me on to them...).
An r540 front & r550 rear.

You actually *bought* a pair of them?!

They come with a lot of lowend roadies, and that's why there's a lot of
the damn things around. But buying some, by choice?! (Tam ... you and
I are having a -talk- and it will be -stern- 🙂 )

<snip>

Nah, fsck off!

I told Abby that you recommended ANYTHING but them. How many times did
I fscking tell him? But he wanted them. So rather than making him pay
full price, I told him when some got advertised second hand from the UQ
Tri club.

Grrr.

T

By "lowend" do you mean 105 or Ultegra equipped bikes? Coz they come on
a few of those, from various makers.

FYI:

R-550 wheels are a replacement for the truly woeful R-540 wheels (man,
am I sick of replacing spokes in those) and are actually QUITE a bit
better than them. They have far fewer failures and wobbles, and
engineeringly, keeping the nipples at the hub is a good idea (lower
circumferential rotating mass). HOWEVER, they're more difficult to true
and replace spokes in than conventional wheels (hence thread topic),
suffer fatigue under heavier riders who do a lot of k's (low spoke
count is bad for this), but are good for weekenders who want a
relatively fast wheel for low $ input (try $400/pr vs.
Mavic/Bontrager/Velcocity/Wheelcraft $750-1000/pr for same nominal
spec, yes, material quality prob. differs). Don't be a wheel snob.
Every step is a step on the way to greatness, if only acknowledged as
such . . . 🙂

MH

Bleve said:

Absent Husband said:

Bleve said:

Or, buy a set of boltcutters, chop the wheel into pieces that will fit
in a bin, and get some decent wheels!

*lmao!*

Thanks Bleve - I was kind of anticipating that sort of response from
you!! *grins*

Quoted message said:

From my research on those wheels (I was inspired by Travis!!), it

seemed that people were either getting wheels that were going
pear-shaped straight away, or wheels that were lasting for ages that
they were very happy with. So it seemed to me that there were good
batches and bad batches...

So then this wheelset came up second hand (Tam put me on to them...).
An r540 front & r550 rear.

You actually *bought* a pair of them?!

They come with a lot of lowend roadies, and that's why there's a lot of
the damn things around. But buying some, by choice?! (Tam ... you and
I are having a -talk- and it will be -stern- 🙂 )

Quoted message said:

The seller told me that he had a pair of r540's. The front was great,
but the rear kept snapping spokes, so Shimano replaced it under
warranty (but with an r550).

So far, I've had about 6 months of trouble-free riding on them
(commuting/training/racing). They feel much, much better than my
previous wheels (Mavic CXP22's on Sora hubs). And I've had no probs,
bar the rear just now coming slightly out of true (nothing serious, I'm
just being an#l about having a super-straight wheel!!).

So you can count me as a data point under "happy with Shimano
wheels..."!! *laughs*

Personal question time: what do you weigh?
At my LBS, we sell a reasonable number of lowend roadies with these
wheels on them, and generally suggest that riders greater than 80kg or
so upgrade the wheels either at purchase-time or as soon as they start
to break. If you're less than that, you might be ok though. That's
been my experience with them anyway.

All this talk of [censored] lowend Shimano wheels had me worried about my
OCR2. Very relieved after a discussion at Abbotsford Cycles this morning
to find the 2005 OCR2 doesn't have the problem wheels and spokes. Phew!
Any response about problems with the Xero XSR-4 wheel set will be met
with fingers in the ears and la-la-la-la-la-la-la-laaaa.

DaveB

In aus.bicycle on 23 Jul 2006 19:36:35 -0700

Bleve said:

At my LBS, we sell a reasonable number of lowend roadies with these
wheels on them, and generally suggest that riders greater than 80kg or
so upgrade the wheels either at purchase-time or as soon as they start
to break. If you're less than that, you might be ok though. That's
been my experience with them anyway.

Hmm.. The bent is low end specs all round (economies of scale) and
uses Alex rims which I expect are cheap as.

I weigh more than 80 and it's not light either. Plus the amount of
kit I take with me to work....

So should I be expecting the rims to go? Spokes to break?

Zebee

Absent Husband said:

Over the weekend, I noticed my rear wheel was slightly out of true, so
figured that I should pull out the old spoke key and have a fiddle...

The rear is a Shimano r550, which I love by the way (yes, I'm aware of
its reputation!!). Abby

I broke a few spokes on the rear (r550) after doing about 2000k so I had the wheel relaced with DT Swiss. Done 3000k since and there has been no movement at all. Anyway something to think about.

DaveB said:

All this talk of [censored] lowend Shimano wheels had me worried about my
OCR2. Very relieved after a discussion at Abbotsford Cycles this morning
to find the 2005 OCR2 doesn't have the problem wheels and spokes. Phew!
Any response about problems with the Xero XSR-4 wheel set will be met
with fingers in the ears and la-la-la-la-la-la-la-laaaa.

What about the 2005 (or was it 2004?) OCR3? Mind you, I'm strongly
inclined to buy a dynamo hub, which means a new wheel anyway ...

--
My Usenet From: address now expires after two weeks. If you email me, and
the mail bounces, try changing the bit before the "@ to usenet".

Quoted message said:

By "lowend" do you mean 105 or Ultegra equipped bikes? Coz they come on
a few of those, from various makers.

The groupset is not the determiner of lowend or highend bike, it's just
a symptom 🙂

The Inexa's and Racelines we sell to the groupset chasers ("I want the
cheapest Ultegra/105 bike I can get! don't care if the frame is flexo
the jellyframe, the chainstay brace stops the back wheel being fitted
when inflated and the forks made of wet spaghetti and it rides like a
BMX with a cracked seatpost, damnit I want Ultegra and I won't pay more
than $2000 for it!"😉 all come with them, as do a lot of the Cannondale
Synapse's (definately not a lowend frame & fork, but they cut the costs
elsewhere for the Al alloy version, the wheels .. the wheels ...).

Quoted message said:

FYI:

R-550 wheels are a replacement for the truly woeful R-540 wheels (man,
am I sick of replacing spokes in those) and are actually QUITE a bit
better than them. They have far fewer failures and wobbles, and
engineeringly, keeping the nipples at the hub is a good idea (lower
circumferential rotating mass). HOWEVER, they're more difficult to true
and replace spokes in than conventional wheels (hence thread topic),

And that's *when* you can get spokes from Shimano ... we had a lot of
supply issues with them early on in their release cycle.
By reports, the R560 is actually an ok wheel. We haven't sold many,
and have had none come back.But IMO, the R550 (and the R540, of course)
is junk. They -look- fast. They -are- [censored]. They're less [censored] than
the R540, sure, but they're still [censored]. I have one at home at the
moment, but I don't trust it for anything except the spin trainer and
the bloke who owns it doesn't want it back 🙂 A few of the riders I
coach have them, and most of them have horror stories about them too.
A few have been lucky and haven't broken them yet, and might not do so.
It may be a quality control problem with them, and these guys have
been lucky and got some that didn't have spokes made from britalloy.

Quoted message said:

suffer fatigue under heavier riders who do a lot of k's (low spoke
count is bad for this), but are good for weekenders who want a
relatively fast wheel for low $ input (try $400/pr vs.
Mavic/Bontrager/Velcocity/Wheelcraft $750-1000/pr for same nominal
spec, yes, material quality prob. differs). Don't be a wheel snob.

I'm the furthest you'll get from a wheel snob, I recommend cheap 32
spoke wheels built up around open pros or some heavier rim and 105 hubs
most of the time.

Speaking of snobbery, I ran dura-ace through my madone yesterday
(replaced the 10sp ultregra with 10sp D-A) and I can't tell the
difference except the brakes feel a touch more sensitive, but that may
just be the new pads. The 10sp ultegra will get shuffled onto my 1400
(57,000km and still going!) this week so I have a wet weather bike
again 🙂 My 105 shifters (9sp) still work but are a bit sloppy after
some 10's of thousands of gear changes. The only real difference is
weight and stiffness of the brakes, I reckon, now I've put a lot of k's
onto 105 and Ultregra to make a comparison ....

Quoted message said:

Every step is a step on the way to greatness, if only acknowledged as
such . . . 🙂

Unless it's a step backwards 🙂

Zebee Johnstone said:

Hmm.. The bent is low end specs all round (economies of scale) and
uses Alex rims which I expect are cheap as.

I weigh more than 80 and it's not light either. Plus the amount of
kit I take with me to work....

So should I be expecting the rims to go? Spokes to break?

No. Alex rims are ok quality, not light, but plenty strong enough, and
you've got little wheels, which are stronger than big wheels. (20" on
your 'bent?). *and* you have more wheels to spread the load around too!

Dancier said:

Absent Husband said:

Over the weekend, I noticed my rear wheel was slightly out of true, so
figured that I should pull out the old spoke key and have a fiddle...

The rear is a Shimano r550, which I love by the way (yes, I'm aware of
its reputation!!). Abby

I broke a few spokes on the rear (r550) after doing about 2000k so I
had the wheel relaced with DT Swiss. Done 3000k since and there has
been no movement at all. Anyway something to think about.

That would be an ok solution 🙂

Tamyka Bell said:

Quoted message said:

They come with a lot of lowend roadies, and that's why there's a lot of
the damn things around. But buying some, by choice?! (Tam ... you and
I are having a -talk- and it will be -stern- 🙂 )

<snip>

Nah, fsck off!

I told Abby that you recommended ANYTHING but them. How many times did
I fscking tell him? But he wanted them. So rather than making him pay
full price, I told him when some got advertised second hand from the UQ
Tri club.

Grrr.

T

Sorry Tam - I dumped you in it!!!

For the record - Tam referred me to a 2nd-hand seller. But then told me
what a lewser I would be if I bought them *laughs*. So she is
definitely not guilty of any cycling transgressions...

Abby

Bleve said:

Quoted message said:

By "lowend" do you mean 105 or Ultegra equipped bikes? Coz they come on
a few of those, from various makers.

The groupset is not the determiner of lowend or highend bike, it's just
a symptom 🙂

The Inexa's and Racelines we sell to the groupset chasers ("I want the
cheapest Ultegra/105 bike I can get! don't care if the frame is flexo
the jellyframe, the chainstay brace stops the back wheel being fitted
when inflated and the forks made of wet spaghetti and it rides like a
BMX with a cracked seatpost, damnit I want Ultegra and I won't pay more
than $2000 for it!"😉 all come with them, as do a lot of the Cannondale
Synapse's (definately not a lowend frame & fork, but they cut the costs
elsewhere for the Al alloy version, the wheels .. the wheels ...).

I was being a little unfair to the Inexa's, they're not that bad a
frame, they ride ok and are pretty stiff, their weakness is the front
end - forks are a bit vague - you can feel it when you stand up and
pedal, they weave a bit more than I'd like. I haven't taken one down a
fast descent, but I imagine it might not be as solid as a more rigid
fork/headset combination. Early Giants have the same sort of problem
(maybe it's the same fork? probably comes from the same factory ...).
I'll probably get an Inexa track bike as a hack to learn track racing
on over summer, I'll know more about them after a season of debarking
on a concrete smellodrone 🙂

Bleve said:

You actually *bought* a pair of them?!

YES!!! They cost me $100. The r540 (front) is approx 2yo and had done
about 8000km. The r550 (rear) is 1yo and had done roughly 2000km. I can
still easily see the rim wear indicator on both, and the hubs spin
smoothly & sweetly...

But remember what I was coming from. The CXP22's were a whole heap of
[censored]. Lots of spoke problems (I had to replace them once under warranty
already!!). And I was truing the rear wheel once every month. They
sucked big time.

Quoted message said:

Personal question time: what do you weigh?
At my LBS, we sell a reasonable number of lowend roadies with these
wheels on them, and generally suggest that riders greater than 80kg or
so upgrade the wheels either at purchase-time or as soon as they start
to break. If you're less than that, you might be ok though. That's
been my experience with them anyway.

I weigh 80kg's (down from about 90kg's 18 months ago... *grins*). So
whilst not the lightest rider in the bunch, hopefully not heavy enough
to buckle any wheels (unless that sprint program you put me on swells
my quads to triple-size!! *laughs*)

At any rate, I'm on a povo cycling budget. Whilst I lust after bling,
I'm riding an Orbea Enol using Sora running gear (with my s3xy Shimano
wheels *laughs*). I'm eyeing off the 'new' 10sp 105 gruppo, and am
saving up for that (whether it be onto my current frame, or a new bike)
- but 2 kids, school fees, kids' gymnastics & swimming lessons, etc,
etc, all have a much higher priority... 🙂

Cheers,
Abby

Bleve said:

Dancier said:

Absent Husband said:

Over the weekend, I noticed my rear wheel was slightly out of true, so
figured that I should pull out the old spoke key and have a fiddle...

The rear is a Shimano r550, which I love by the way (yes, I'm aware of
its reputation!!). Abby

I broke a few spokes on the rear (r550) after doing about 2000k so I
had the wheel relaced with DT Swiss. Done 3000k since and there has
been no movement at all. Anyway something to think about.

That would be an ok solution 🙂

OK, so if that would be an OK solution - are you saying that spoke
quality is the problem with the Shimano wheels, rather than any issues
with the hubs or rims...??

Abby (btw - thanks for the tip, Dancier!!)

Absent Husband said:

Bleve said:

Dancier said:

Absent Husband Wrote:
> Over the weekend, I noticed my rear wheel was slightly out of true, so
> figured that I should pull out the old spoke key and have a fiddle...
>
> The rear is a Shimano r550, which I love by the way (yes, I'm aware of
> its reputation!!). Abby
I broke a few spokes on the rear (r550) after doing about 2000k so I
had the wheel relaced with DT Swiss. Done 3000k since and there has
been no movement at all. Anyway something to think about.

That would be an ok solution 🙂

OK, so if that would be an OK solution - are you saying that spoke
quality is the problem with the Shimano wheels, rather than any issues
with the hubs or rims...??

I have no experience with this being done with these wheels, so I can't
say. If it works for dancier, then maybe it's a workable hack.

I *can* say that a set of good spokes and paying an LBS to do the job
is not something that you'll get for free, and it will take a day or so
to get done (depending on how the LBS builds wheels, some like to spend
a few days doing it to allow the spokes to stretch, others think that's
huey!)

Absent Husband said:

Bleve said:

You actually *bought* a pair of them?!

YES!!! They cost me $100. The r540 (front) is approx 2yo and had done
about 8000km. The r550 (rear) is 1yo and had done roughly 2000km. I can
still easily see the rim wear indicator on both, and the hubs spin
smoothly & sweetly...

But remember what I was coming from. The CXP22's were a whole heap of
[censored]. Lots of spoke problems (I had to replace them once under warranty
already!!). And I was truing the rear wheel once every month. They
sucked big time.

*nod*

CXP22's are ok as a rim, if the wheel build is a bit shonky then ja ..

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Personal question time: what do you weigh?
At my LBS, we sell a reasonable number of lowend roadies with these
wheels on them, and generally suggest that riders greater than 80kg or
so upgrade the wheels either at purchase-time or as soon as they start
to break. If you're less than that, you might be ok though. That's
been my experience with them anyway.

I weigh 80kg's (down from about 90kg's 18 months ago... *grins*). So

That's pretty good. You'll probably be ok on them. But, don't buy
another set, ok? If/when you get another wheelset, keep the R550 rear
to use on a spin trainer, they're good for that 🙂

Quoted message said:

whilst not the lightest rider in the bunch, hopefully not heavy enough
to buckle any wheels (unless that sprint program you put me on swells
my quads to triple-size!! *laughs*)

Has that been working at all? Have you gained any speed on your
downhill sprints?
Are you QUADZILLA?!

Quoted message said:

At any rate, I'm on a povo cycling budget. Whilst I lust after bling,
I'm riding an Orbea Enol using Sora running gear (with my s3xy Shimano
wheels *laughs*). I'm eyeing off the 'new' 10sp 105 gruppo, and am
saving up for that (whether it be onto my current frame, or a new bike)
- but 2 kids, school fees, kids' gymnastics & swimming lessons, etc,
etc, all have a much higher priority... 🙂

what do kids go for these days? $5.99/kg? (cheaper than mushrooms
.....)
feed 'em up! There's your next bike!