Pedestrians (again)

"Badger South" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Never overestimate the alertness or intelligence of the bike path pedestrian.

<snip>

Quoted message said:

Instead of muttering obscenities at the pedestrians with no earthly clue, I think from now on I
might get an air horn and honk it at them when they say 'oh, sorry', and follow it up with a smile
and a slightly startled look: 'oh, no problem, oops, sorry, that pesky airhorn keeps going off by
itself'. ;-P

From what you have written, it sounds like you need to realize that "bike paths" are almost always
treated as multi-use trails which are hardly better than a sidewalk. Just like you wouldn't ride
fast on a sidewalk, you should ride fast here either. Save the spped for the roads where all of the
traffic is expected to be moving faster than a walking pace.

-Buck

Badger South said:

Never overestimate the alertness or intelligence of the bike path pedestrian.

Last week I had two fun encounters.

The first one, a young lady was walking her dawg on a leash, and was standing in front of a small
opening in a log fence leading to the park and the bike trail. I hollar 'bike', and proceed to the
opening. Her dog leash is on the ground, but she's on one side of the opening, and doggie is on
the other. She tenses up when I holler 'bike', stretching the leash taut, and looks dazed and
confused. At this point I'm in full pedal for the opening. She tries frantically to reel said
pooch back to her, and poochie, of course, struggles to go the other way.

Sheesh. Finally when collision seems imminent, light dawns and she steps -into- my path heading
towards the dog. Huh? What timing, what panache. I barely miss her, have to jump off the pedals,
and flintstone, and manage to squeek by narroly missing getting impaled on the wooden fence.

Earlier, on a narrowed section of the woods trail, due to the hanging debris from H. Isabel, I see
a mother with three small children. I holler 'bike'. She turns to see me coming, she and her brood
being about 3-4 feet from the narrowed opening.

Does she wait a second or two for me to get by? No! She gets confused and ushers her brood into
the opening, as though the gates of heaven are closing for last call, and as I get about 6 feet
from her, she gets in the opening as well, and turns to look at me, presumably to see me sail off
into the shrubbery.

Realizing that two objects can't occupy the same space, I flintstone again, and get entangled in
the brush. At which point, she says 'oh, sorry'.

I'm thinking I need an air horn, a bell, a grappling hook, a boxing glove on a spring and a
cow-catcher attachment on the trail bike.

Just another fun aspect of trail biking! ;-)

Instead of muttering obscenities at the pedestrians with no earthly clue, I think from now on I
might get an air horn and honk it at them when they say 'oh, sorry', and follow it up with a smile
and a slightly startled look: 'oh, no problem, oops, sorry, that pesky airhorn keeps going off by
itself'. ;-P

-B

Yeah. I used to ride like that too. Before I got strong enough to get back to speed again once I'd
slowed down to share the path with someone.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, Buck <s c h w i n n _ f o r _ s a l e @ h o

t m a i l . c o m said:

"Badger South" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Never overestimate the alertness or intelligence of the bike path pedestrian.

<snip>

Quoted message said:

Instead of muttering obscenities at the pedestrians with no earthly clue, I think from now on I
might get an air horn and honk it at them when they say 'oh, sorry', and follow it up with a
smile and a slightly startled look: 'oh, no problem, oops, sorry, that pesky airhorn keeps going
off by itself'. ;-P

From what you have written, it sounds like you need to realize that "bike paths" are almost always
treated as multi-use trails which are hardly better than a sidewalk. Just like you wouldn't ride
fast on a sidewalk, you should ride fast here either. Save the spped for the roads where all of the
traffic is expected to be moving faster than a walking pace.

-Buck

Yeah, I know that. I was just offering a humorous, but true anecdote. Surely you can tell by the
comment that I was able to jump off the pedals and stop with my feet that I was not traveling
quickly at all.

What is puzzling is the daft actions of the people walking. There are several ppl that ride bikes on
this trail, but the walkers all act like 'OMG, it's a bizarre unknown contraption, what on earth
should I do now?' In addition all the walkers are supposed to have their dogs on a leash, and none
of them do it. When the dog jumps up on you and knocks you back, or jumps in front of the bik, they
say, 'oh, he doesn't bite, he's just being friendly'. I say, that's nice, but I don't want him to
jump on me and be friendly right now.

One should be able to expect that the pedestrians would just calmly move to the side and let a biker
through, with sufficient warning; and most of them do. It's the few that don't seem to know left
from right, or seem to consider the best response to be jump in front of you for a better view! ;-)

Lighten up.

-B

--
Email Replies to johnson<nospm>01j <att> ntelos <dott> net

"Badger South" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

One should be able to expect that the pedestrians would just calmly move to the side and let a
biker through, with sufficient warning; and most of them do. It's the few that don't seem to know
left from right, or seem to consider the best response to be jump in front of you for a better
view! ;-)

You're thinking about it. They aren't. You expect too much.

And they have the right of way, and you have the obligation to yield.

RichC

In article said:

Badger South said:

Never overestimate the alertness or intelligence of the bike path pedestrian.

<snippage>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

-B

Yeah. I used to ride like that too. Before I got strong enough to get back to speed again once I'd
slowed down to share the path with someone.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

Hmm, not sure if you're seeing it as humor, but I do travel slowly when approaching pedestrians. I'm
coasting, and am prepared to stop.

Just thought fellow trail bikers would appreciate a couple funny diatribes. Oh well. ;-)

-B

--
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"Badger South" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Never overestimate the alertness or intelligence of the bike path pedestrian.

Last week I had two fun encounters.

[snip]

Quoted message said:

At this point I'm in full pedal for the opening....

[snip]

Therein lies the problem.

Pete

In article said:

"Badger South" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

One should be able to expect that the pedestrians would just calmly move to the side and let a
biker through, with sufficient warning; and most of them do. It's the few that don't seem to know
left from right, or seem to consider the best response to be jump in front of you for a better
view! ;-)

You're thinking about it. They aren't. You expect too much.

And they have the right of way, and you have the obligation to yield.

RichC

Point taken; and I do realize this. I'd have thought the post would have provoked light-hearted
replies or tales of similar ilk, but you guys are just too durn sensible and level-headed.

I kinda expected a biking group to be on the side of the bikers. I guess it comes from long
experience and the inevitability of the issue.

Best,

-B

--
Email Replies to johnson<nospm>01j <att> ntelos <dott> net

(Badger South) said:

Never overestimate the alertness or intelligence of the bike path pedestrian.

There is no such thing as a bike path, as you probably now realize.

--
Chris Bird

"Badger South" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Point taken; and I do realize this. I'd have thought the post would have provoked light-hearted
replies or tales of similar ilk, but you guys are just too durn sensible and level-headed.

I kinda expected a biking group to be on the side of the bikers. I guess it comes from long
experience and the inevitability of the issue.

By your posting history and general attitude, it is obvious you haven't been around this newsgroup
for very long. You will find help on just about any cycling issue, but the actions you describe are
the kind that drive a deeper wedge between us as cycling advocates and the general public.

Now, if you were in a bike lane or on a public street, or perhaps if you were riding responsibly on
a multi-use path, you might have had a more sympathetic reaction. But the way you described it just
made you look irresponsible in your actions. You did say that you were "in full pedal for the
opening." If you said you were full onto the brakes when the dog ran across the path, then the
reaction would have been more to your liking. But what you described is something that reflects
poorly on all of us. That's why the response wasn't positive.

-Buck

"Badger South" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Point taken; and I do realize this. I'd have thought the post would have provoked light-hearted
replies or tales of similar ilk, but you guys are just too durn sensible and level-headed.

I once tried to pass a group of pedestrians by riding off the path with 5 feet extra clear space. I
yell "passing on your right" and one jumps, you guessed it, 5 feet to the right.

One morning I yelled "passing on your right" to a jogger who laughed so hard he almost fell off the
cliff to his right.

Quoted message said:

I kinda expected a biking group to be on the side of the bikers. I guess it comes from long
experience and the inevitability of the issue.

I also know the daughter of a woman whose independent life was ended by some goof climbing a hill on
the sidewalk with grocery bags on both handlebars. Too many riders don't respect pedestrians.

Doug Toronto

In article <[email hidden]>, Buck <s c h w i n n _ f o r _ s a l e @ h

o t m a i l . c o m said:

"Badger South" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Point taken; and I do realize this. I'd have thought the post would have provoked light-hearted
replies or tales of similar ilk, but you guys are just too durn sensible and level-headed.

I kinda expected a biking group to be on the side of the bikers. I guess it comes from long
experience and the inevitability of the issue.

By your posting history and general attitude, it is obvious you haven't been around this newsgroup
for very long. You will find help on just about any cycling issue, but the actions you describe are
the kind that drive a deeper wedge between us as cycling advocates and the general public.

Now, if you were in a bike lane or on a public street, or perhaps if you were riding responsibly on
a multi-use path, you might have had a more sympathetic reaction. But the way you described it just
made you look irresponsible in your actions. You did say that you were "in full pedal for the
opening." If you said you were full onto the brakes when the dog ran across the path, then the
reaction would have been more to your liking. But what you described is something that reflects
poorly on all of us. That's why the response wasn't positive.

-Buck

OK, I didn't fully appreciate that. Thanks for pointing it out. I need to be more aware and
sensitive to the perceptions of the public and biking.

Maybe I am a little too aggressive on the bike; I'll think about that. Perhaps it's a kind of
reaction that people have when they get behind the wheel of a car and become obnoxious.

Thanks for taking time to explain.

Best, -B

--
Email Replies to johnson<nospm>01j <att> ntelos <dott> net

In article <[email hidden]>, Doug Purdy

Quoted message said:

"Badger South" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Point taken; and I do realize this. I'd have thought the post would have provoked light-hearted
replies or tales of similar ilk, but you guys are just too durn sensible and level-headed.

I once tried to pass a group of pedestrians by riding off the path with 5 feet extra clear space. I
yell "passing on your right" and one jumps, you guessed it, 5 feet to the right.

One morning I yelled "passing on your right" to a jogger who laughed so hard he almost fell off the
cliff to his right.

Quoted message said:

I kinda expected a biking group to be on the side of the bikers. I guess it comes from long
experience and the inevitability of the issue.

I also know the daughter of a woman whose independent life was ended by some goof climbing a hill
on the sidewalk with grocery bags on both handlebars. Too many riders don't respect pedestrians.

Doug Toronto

Good point. As bikers, we're only hurting ourselves by failing to have this caution and respect for
the danger we pose to pedestrians. I'll certainly be more aware of such things and try not to get to
ampped over such things - I'm pretty much able to laugh about it anyway, but there is a slight edge
of that can creep in.

Best, -B
--
Email Replies to johnson<nospm>01j <att> ntelos <dott> net

Badger South said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Buck <s c h w i n n _ f o r _ s a l e @

h o t m a i l . c o m said:

"Badger South" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Point taken; and I do realize this. I'd have thought the post would have provoked light-hearted
replies or tales of similar ilk, but you guys are just too durn sensible and level-headed.

I kinda expected a biking group to be on the side of the bikers. I guess it comes from long
experience and the inevitability of the issue.

By your posting history and general attitude, it is obvious you haven't been around this
newsgroup for very long. You will find help on just about any cycling issue, but the actions you
describe are the kind that drive a deeper wedge between us as cycling advocates and the general
public.

Now, if you were in a bike lane or on a public street, or perhaps if you were riding responsibly
on a multi-use path, you might have had a more sympathetic reaction. But the way you described it
just made you look irresponsible in your actions. You did say that you were "in full pedal for
the opening." If you said you were full onto the brakes when the dog ran across the path, then
the reaction would have been more to your liking. But what you described is something that
reflects poorly on all of us. That's why the response wasn't positive.

-Buck

OK, I didn't fully appreciate that. Thanks for pointing it out. I need to be more aware and
sensitive to the perceptions of the public and biking.

Maybe I am a little too aggressive on the bike; I'll think about that. Perhaps it's a kind of
reaction that people have when they get behind the wheel of a car and become obnoxious.

Thanks for taking time to explain.

Best, -B

The problem is that bikes are always borrowing somebody elses space. We don't have our own. Once we
understand this we travel much safer. It took me a while to learn this and I'm a lot more mellow in
city traffic nowadays. I was only being mildly ironic to you in my earlier post. For me it did have
to do with on the bike strength. When I was a newbie I didn't wan't to slow down once I'd gotten
going. Nowadays I am strong enough to start and stop continously on my daily rides without losing my
pace, or breath 😉

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

Badger South said:

Never overestimate the alertness or intelligence of the bike path pedestrian.

Or that of a cyclist.

Quoted message said:

The first one, a young lady was walking her dawg on a leash, and was standing in front of a small
opening in a log fence leading to the park and the bike trail. I hollar 'bike', and proceed to the
opening. Her dog leash is on the ground, but she's on one side of the opening, and doggie is on
the other. She tenses up when I holler 'bike', stretching the leash taut, and looks dazed and
confused. At this point I'm in full pedal for the opening. She tries frantically to reel said
pooch back to her, and poochie, of course, struggles to go the other way.

Sheesh. Finally when collision seems imminent, light dawns and she steps -into- my path heading
towards the dog. Huh? What timing, what panache. I barely miss her, have to jump off the pedals,
and flintstone, and manage to squeek by narroly missing getting impaled on the wooden fence.

Did it possibly occur to you to slow down?

Quoted message said:

Earlier, on a narrowed section of the woods trail, due to the hanging debris from H. Isabel, I see
a mother with three small children. I holler 'bike'. She turns to see me coming, she and her brood
being about 3-4 feet from the narrowed opening.

Look. You have these two levers on your bars. They are called brake levers. Obviously you are not
acquainted with them. Next time, instead of yelling at people in your path, stop. You have three
small children in front of you. This is no time to go barreling through the crowd. It's not that
woman's fault that she was on _your_ trail. She thought she had the same rights and privilges as
anyone else to use the trail.

The reason they "look confused" is that they have no idea what to expect from you. What they
_should_ expect is that you will slow down so you will not hit them. The first one you described was
not _on_ the trail, she was just in front of a hole in the fence you were aiming for. You do not
have any right of way, there.

Quoted message said:

Instead of muttering obscenities at the pedestrians with no earthly

clue,

Sorry, guy, you're the one without a clue.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. _`\(,_ | That is easy. All
you have to do is tell them they are being (_)/ (_) | attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for
lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any <country. --
Hermann Goering

Badger South said:

What is puzzling is the daft actions of the people walking. There are several ppl that ride bikes
on this trail, but the walkers all act like 'OMG, it's a bizarre unknown contraption, what on
earth should I do

now?'

Well, you know, what the [censored] should they have done? Scenario #1: did the woman have a reasonable
amount of time to get to the other side with her dog? Sounds like she didn't. As far as you
barreling towards a woman and her three little children, let me tell you that I would have no
compunction about locking you up for a very long time had you run down one of my kids.

Quoted message said:

In addition all the walkers are supposed to have their dogs on a leash, and none of them do it.

Your first story concerned a woman with a dog on a leash.

Quoted message said:

One should be able to expect that the pedestrians would just calmly move to the side and let a
biker through, with sufficient warning; and most of them do.

You cannot expect little children to do this. It is up to you to watch out for them. And their
mother was much more concerned about what they might do, than with obeying your shouted command to
get out of your way.

Quoted message said:

Lighten up.

Don't be reckless.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | Arguing with an engineer is like mud wrestling with a pig... You _`\(,_ | soon find out the
pig likes it! (_)/ (_) |

In article said:

Badger South said:

OK, I didn't fully appreciate that. Thanks for pointing it out. I need to be more aware and
sensitive to the perceptions of the public and biking.

Maybe I am a little too aggressive on the bike; I'll think about that. Perhaps it's a kind of
reaction that people have when they get behind the wheel of a car and become obnoxious.

Thanks for taking time to explain.

Best, -B

The problem is that bikes are always borrowing somebody elses space. We don't have our own. Once we
understand this we travel much safer. It took me a while to learn this and I'm a lot more mellow in
city traffic nowadays. I was only being mildly ironic to you in my earlier post. For me it did have
to do with on the bike strength. When I was a newbie I didn't wan't to slow down once I'd gotten
going. Nowadays I am strong enough to start and stop continously on my daily rides without losing
my pace, or breath 😉

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

In thinking about it, it occurs to me that an aggressive attitude on the bike is promoted by the
very activity of zipping around, wind at your back, your adrenaline is up a bit, you're in an
aerobic mode, which is heightened alertness, and you just 'feel' aggressive.

I get that feeling when I'm running or lifting weights. Of course when lifting, you need the
aggression. In biking, it's definitely a good idea to tone that down a little. ;-)

-B

--
Email Replies to johnson<nospm>01j <att> ntelos <dott> net

(Badger South) said:

Point taken; and I do realize this. I'd have thought the post would have provoked light-hearted
replies or tales of similar ilk, but you guys are just too durn sensible and level-headed.

I kinda expected a biking group to be on the side of the bikers. I guess it comes from long
experience and the inevitability of the issue.

Best,

-B

<g>

Don't worry, I'm sure most people here have dealt with the same clueless idiots and can relate. Any
path that is built - even if it is designated a "bike path" and has a seperate walkway alongside as
was recently built here in Toronto along the Eastern Lake Shore Boulevard - will be frequented by
dog-walkers, roller bladers, parents with young children ambling around on foot, push scooter or
bicycle and numerous other hazards. Most of them will have driven to the path and think nothing
about being aggressive when they encounter cyclists or pedestrians on the road but they will
strongly object to you using *their* path in an aggressive manner. So expecting to use one of these
paths to go anywhere quickly and safely is an excercise in futility.

Now if you are compelled by law to use such path instead of the road as is the case in some areas,
then go ahead and get an air horn and that boxing glove you mentioned. If you hit someone and get
sued, make sure you sue whomever enacted the law.

--
Chris Bird

In article <[email hidden]>, Chris B.
<bikerider@-NOSPAM_THANKS-rogers.com> wrote: <snippage>

Quoted message said:

Now if you are compelled by law to use such path instead of the road as is the case in some areas,
then go ahead and get an air horn and that boxing glove you mentioned. If you hit someone and get
sued, make sure you sue whomever enacted the law.

--
Chris Bird

Again, just kidding, thus the hyperbole. After the severe tongue lashing here, I may be tipping my
hat and smiling at the lovely creatures for weeks to come. ;-)

-B
--
Email Replies to johnson<nospm>01j <att> ntelos <dott> net

In article said:

Badger South said:

I kinda expected a biking group to be on the side of the bikers. I guess it comes from long
experience and the inevitability of the issue.

Not when the biker is in the wrong. Makes it worse for all of us.

You are quite right. I stand corrected and chastened, seriously.

Best,

-B

Quoted message said:

--

David L. Johnson

__o | I don't believe you, you've got the whole damn thing all wrong. _`\(,_ | He's not the kind
you have to wind-up on Sundays. --Ian (_)/ (_) | Anderson

--
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