sanding bearing cones

Snippy Bobkins said:

I just had my Bontrager MTB hubs serviced at my LBS. The guy said they
sanded the bearing cones. I assume that is for pitting from worn bearings.
If I wanted to do that myself, how would I go about it? By hand? What grit
sandpaper?

ugh. don't do it. don't go to any shop that does.

there's two issues. one is that you're shutting the stable door after
the horse has bolted. second is that, unless you have some
sophisticated cleaning gear, you embed tiny grit particles in the
bearing surfaces, with predictable results.

regarding the bearings themselves and why the horse has bolted, there's
two main types of cone:

1. cheapo case hardened carbon steel.
2. high quality through hardened chrome [bearing] steel.

the cheapo ones are shaped, then hardened. they're a little rough, but
last ok. once the coating has gone, i.e. because it's spalled off, it's
gone for good, and you're just running on soft steel. this won't last,
so there's not much point trying to re-finish them. if they're through
hardened, trying to refinish is "non-precision" [to say the least] and
subject to the grit problem outlined above. as a last resort,
re-machining a through hardened cone is possible, and andy muzi shows
how to do it on his web site, but it really is the kind of thing you
only do on a vintage restoration where there's no alternative parts
available.

you really need to find a better lbs - and those guys should go find
work as plumbers.

jim beam ha scritto:

Quoted message said:

you really need to find a better lbs - and those guys should go find
work as plumbers.

Not even, unless you don't mind leaks..

Sergio
Pisa

Snippy Bobkins said:

I just had my Bontrager MTB hubs serviced at my LBS. The guy said they
sanded the bearing cones. I assume that is for pitting from worn bearings.
If I wanted to do that myself, how would I go about it? By hand? What grit
sandpaper?

Dear Snippy,

Even assuming that the sanding worked, how expensive are new cones?

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

On Fri, 14 Jul 2006 22:09:27 -0700, jim beam <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

as a last resort,
re-machining a through hardened cone is possible, and andy muzi shows
how to do it on his web site, but it really is the kind of thing you
only do on a vintage restoration where there's no alternative parts
available.

Dear Jim,

I was curious and looked at yellowjersey.org, but I couldn't find
anything about re-machining cones.

Do you have a link?

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Quoted message said:

Dear Snippy,

Even assuming that the sanding worked, how expensive are new cones?

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

<psuedo pinko rant> //focus...

That barely seems the point! what about the the idea of make-do-and-mend,
sustainable economy, environmentally friendly living and the satisfaction
from being able to understand every aspect of your bike and it's engineering
through doing?
(and actually just answering the question)
Land of the Free or slaves to a market economy?
('O' controversy!)

</psuedo pinko rant> //And .... Relax

"jim beam" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Snippy Bobkins said:

I just had my Bontrager MTB hubs serviced at my LBS. The guy said

they

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

sanded the bearing cones. I assume that is for pitting from worn

bearings.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If I wanted to do that myself, how would I go about it? By hand?

What grit

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

sandpaper?

ugh. don't do it. don't go to any shop that does.

there's two issues. one is that you're shutting the stable door after
the horse has bolted. second is that, unless you have some
sophisticated cleaning gear, you embed tiny grit particles in the
bearing surfaces, with predictable results.

regarding the bearings themselves and why the horse has bolted,

there's

Quoted message said:

two main types of cone:

1. cheapo case hardened carbon steel.
2. high quality through hardened chrome [bearing] steel.

the cheapo ones are shaped, then hardened. they're a little rough,

but

Quoted message said:

last ok. once the coating has gone, i.e. because it's spalled off,

it's

Quoted message said:

gone for good, and you're just running on soft steel. this won't

last,

Quoted message said:

so there's not much point trying to re-finish them. if they're

through

Quoted message said:

hardened, trying to refinish is "non-precision" [to say the least] and
subject to the grit problem outlined above. as a last resort,
re-machining a through hardened cone is possible, and andy muzi shows
how to do it on his web site, but it really is the kind of thing you
only do on a vintage restoration where there's no alternative parts
available.

you really need to find a better lbs - and those guys should go find
work as plumbers.

I thought that most of the trick hubs sold these days came with sealed
bearings?

Aside from possible incompetence, perhaps his LBS was like some auto
repair places that recommend you get your "chrome muffler bearings"
replaced! ;-)

Chas.

"Keiron" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Dear Snippy,

Even assuming that the sanding worked, how expensive are new cones?

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

<psuedo pinko rant> //focus...

That barely seems the point! what about the the idea of
make-do-and-mend,
sustainable economy, environmentally friendly living and the
satisfaction
from being able to understand every aspect of your bike and it's
engineering
through doing?
(and actually just answering the question)
Land of the Free or slaves to a market economy?
('O' controversy!)

</psuedo pinko rant> //And .... Relax

Like the philosophy, but don't want the bike shop "techs" learning how
to do this on my bike!

Ken

"Road Man" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Keiron" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Dear Snippy,

Even assuming that the sanding worked, how expensive are new cones?

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

<psuedo pinko rant> //focus...

That barely seems the point! what about the the idea of
make-do-and-mend,
sustainable economy, environmentally friendly living and the
satisfaction
from being able to understand every aspect of your bike and it's
engineering
through doing?
(and actually just answering the question)
Land of the Free or slaves to a market economy?
('O' controversy!)

</psuedo pinko rant> //And .... Relax

Like the philosophy, but don't want the bike shop "techs" learning how
to do this on my bike!

Ken

Too true, i concede to the fact that things certainly do need to be replaced
at times when performance and saftey become issues. I was refering to the
attitude that wanting to understand ideas/concepts, even if the result is
not logically ideal, is dismissed as irrelevant/unimportant especially if
money can be thrown at the problem as an easy solution. What then would be
the point in knowing anything? Also a live and let live man so forgive my
existential evangelising.

Ride On!

Snippy Bobkins said:

I just had my Bontrager MTB hubs serviced at my LBS. The guy said they
sanded the bearing cones. I assume that is for pitting from worn bearings.
If I wanted to do that myself, how would I go about it? By hand? What grit
sandpaper?

I'd definitely consult Ron Popeil about this.

<[email hidden]> wrote ...

Quoted message said:

Even assuming that the sanding worked, how expensive are new cones?

Good point. I saw after the fact that Sheldon advocates new cone purchase,
his tree hugger aura notwithstanding. They're good Bontrager cones/hubs.
This shop is owned by too good of a guy to dump him. These hubs hadn't been
serviced since I bought the bike in 2000, and I've ridden it in lakes and
through creeks and lots of rain in British Columbia over the last few years.
I wanted to start fresh before I took a run at them myself. I'm going to
ask them about it next time I'm in.

--
Snippy

Snippy Bobkins said:

<[email hidden]> wrote ...

Quoted message said:

Even assuming that the sanding worked, how expensive are new cones?

Good point. I saw after the fact that Sheldon advocates new cone purchase,
his tree hugger aura notwithstanding. They're good Bontrager cones/hubs.
This shop is owned by too good of a guy to dump him. These hubs hadn't been
serviced since I bought the bike in 2000, and I've ridden it in lakes and
through creeks and lots of rain in British Columbia over the last few years.
I wanted to start fresh before I took a run at them myself. I'm going to
ask them about it next time I'm in.

In light of the conditions (lakes, creeks, lots of rain and no service
in 6 years), perhaps the "sanding" merely referred to removing surface
rust?

Snippy Bobkins said:

<[email hidden]> wrote ...

Quoted message said:

Even assuming that the sanding worked, how expensive are new cones?

Good point. I saw after the fact that Sheldon advocates new cone
purchase, his tree hugger aura notwithstanding. They're good Bontrager
cones/hubs. This shop is owned by too good of a guy to dump him. These
hubs hadn't been serviced since I bought the bike in 2000, and I've
ridden it in lakes and through creeks and lots of rain in British
Columbia over the last few years. I wanted to start fresh before I took
a run at them myself. I'm going to ask them about it next time I'm in.

Are you in Vancouver? What LBS is this?

--
Benjamin Lewis

Quoted message said:

Even assuming that the sanding worked, how expensive are new cones?

isn't its usually the availability, not the cost?

--
Andy Morris

AndyAtJinkasDotFreeserve.Co.UK

Love this:
Put an end to Outlook Express's messy quotes
http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/

--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
------->>>>>>http://www.NewsDemon.com<<<<<<------
Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access

"Benjamin Lewis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Snippy Bobkins said:

<[email hidden]> wrote ...

Quoted message said:

Even assuming that the sanding worked, how expensive are new cones?

Good point. I saw after the fact that Sheldon advocates new cone
purchase, his tree hugger aura notwithstanding. They're good Bontrager
cones/hubs. This shop is owned by too good of a guy to dump him. These
hubs hadn't been serviced since I bought the bike in 2000, and I've
ridden it in lakes and through creeks and lots of rain in British
Columbia over the last few years. I wanted to start fresh before I took
a run at them myself. I'm going to ask them about it next time I'm in.

Are you in Vancouver? What LBS is this?

I'm out by Chilliwack. I use PedalSport. I have spent next to nothing
there over the last few years, but the owner is consistently helpful, always
cheerful, cuts deals, suggests less expensive but just-as-good parts,
organizes local and not so local rides, buys a round now and then. Most of
my riding has been up by Hicks Lake past Harrison Hot Springs, the hills
above Agassiz, and more recently Vedder Mountain. I'm mostly a roadie and
am just getting my bearings with MTB. I just discovered
http://www.fvmba.com/. Any suggestions would be great.
--
Snippy

Keiron said:

Quoted message said:

Too true, i concede to the fact that things certainly do need to be replaced
at times when performance and saftey become issues. I was refering to the
attitude that wanting to understand ideas/concepts, even if the result is
not logically ideal, is dismissed as irrelevant/unimportant especially if
money can be thrown at the problem as an easy solution. What then would be
the point in knowing anything? Also a live and let live man so forgive my
existential evangelising.

many things which can't be repaired can be recycled. I suspect cones are
in this category.

Keiron said:

Quoted message said:

Dear Snippy,

Even assuming that the sanding worked, how expensive are new cones?

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

<psuedo pinko rant> //focus...

That barely seems the point! what about the the idea of make-do-and-mend,
sustainable economy, environmentally friendly living and the satisfaction
from being able to understand every aspect of your bike and it's engineering
through doing?

Are you being wry, or do you really think such tokenism of cone
recycling matters in the grand scheme of things? Let's say that you
sanded unevenly and the results ruined your bearings and cups, what a
blow to mother nature!! :-P

"landotter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Keiron said:

Quoted message said:

Dear Snippy,

Even assuming that the sanding worked, how expensive are new cones?

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

<psuedo pinko rant> //focus...

That barely seems the point! what about the the idea of

make-do-and-mend,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

sustainable economy, environmentally friendly living and the

satisfaction

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

from being able to understand every aspect of your bike and it's

engineering

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

through doing?

Are you being wry, or do you really think such tokenism of cone
recycling matters in the grand scheme of things? Let's say that you
sanded unevenly and the results ruined your bearings and cups, what a
blow to mother nature!! :-P

You be the judge! All i would say is if you're gonna sand your cones, do it
right! (or i'll slap you with this kipper).

Quoted message said:

<[[[>

On geeky green issues, the fact you see it as tokenism proves the point,
"... it's not the individual cones maaan, it's like, the attitudes towards
the cones, cones are people too"
"woah dude! that it like, so deep."
"yeah"

AndyMorris said:

Quoted message said:

Even assuming that the sanding worked, how expensive are new cones?

isn't its usually the availability, not the cost?

--
Andy Morris

Dear Andy,

As far as I know, Bontrager still sells mountain bike cones, so
they're available.

The shop has to stock them, but that's true of spokes, tubes, tires,
bearings, chains, and just about everything else.

Out of curiosity, I clicked on the "Find a Dealer" at the U.S.
Bontrager site (scroll down in the small window and you can search
Canada and the U.K., too).

My Pueblo zip code is 81004, a non-bicyling-oriented city 50 miles
from the next city. (I'll be surprised if I see more than three riders
with drop bars when I leave for my 15 mile ride in a few minutes on a
Saturday evening.)

http://direct.where2getit.com/cwc/apps/w2gi.php?sid=44b979ab96ae2&ADDRESS=&POSTALCODE=81004&COUNTRY=US&STATE=CO&CITY=PUEBLO&PRODUCT=&PRODUCTFCT=&LAT=&LON=&UNITS=MILES&RADIUS=15%7C50&USECENTERPOINT=&W2GI_LASTEXTENT=-104.979479551%7C38.0206076581%7C-104.283322573%7C38.4553902668&SORTBY_Dealers=DISTANCE&START_Dealers=0&COUNT_Dealers=8&REVERSE_Dealers=FALSE&W2GI_QUICK_ZOOM=&W2GI_QFIELD=DEALERID&W2GI_QVALUE=&DISTANCE=&W2GI_DNAME=&W2GI_DADDR=&W2GI_DCITY=&W2GI_DSTATE=&W2GI_DPOSTALCODE=&W2GI_DID=&W2GI_DINDEX=&NAV_INPUT_TYPE=POINT&NAV_CMD=SCALE_ZOOM&NAV_ALLOW_RECTANGLE=0&SCALE_ZOOM=90000&client=bontrager&template=locator
or http://tinyurl.com/hhlkq

That may be the longest url I've seen, but it shows that the Great
Divide bike shop is a Bontrager dealer, so they probably have parts or
can get them instead of trying to sand damaged cones into acceptable
shapes. They're about three miles away.

Trying to sand a damaged cone into shape when it's available at a
Bontrager dealer or overnight doesn't sound promising. Of course, it
may turn out to be some part that Bontrager no longer sells, but I'll
be startled if that's the case.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Snippy Bobkins said:

Quoted message said:

I just had my Bontrager MTB hubs serviced at my LBS. The guy said they
sanded the bearing cones. I assume that is for pitting from worn bearings.
If I wanted to do that myself, how would I go about it? By hand? What grit
sandpaper?

jim beam said:

ugh. don't do it. don't go to any shop that does.

you really need to find a better lbs - and those guys should go find
work as plumbers.

Jim, have you ever actually _tried_ to obtain a replacement cone for a
Bontrager hub?

In the first place, Trek/Bontrager won't sell parts to shops that are
not Trek/Bontrager dealers.

In the second place, at least _some_ Bontrager labeled hubs use
oddball, non-standard cones that are not available at any price to
anybody.

It's tough enough to obtain replacement cones for current model major
brand hubs...basically forget it for off-brand and house-brand oddball
stuff like this.

I admire the shop for attempting a repair. When I ran into this on a
customer's bike the best I could do was tell him he needed a new wheel.

Sheldon "Cone Replacemen Has Always Been A Nightmare In This Industry"
Brown
+----------------------------------------------------+
| I reckon there's more things told than are true, |
| And more things true than are told. |
| --Rudyard Kipling |
+----------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
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