FT from race data

pcannell said:

Hey guys. I'm new to using a powermeter, and was wondering if the data from last weekend's P/1/2 crit will give any insight to my functional threshold power. It was 75 min long, ave HR 164, normalized power of 298w and ave power of 165w.

Thanks!

Is the above info based on the 'entire ride', or based on the best 60 minutes of the ride?

pcannell said:

Hey guys. I'm new to using a powermeter, and was wondering if the data from last weekend's P/1/2 crit will give any insight to my functional threshold power. It was 75 min long, ave HR 164, normalized power of 298w and ave power of 165w.

Thanks!

http://www.cyclingforums.com/t337887.html

NP +-5% of true effort
http://www.cyclingforums.com/showpost.php?p=2744227&postcount=10

it is from the entire 75 minutes - and I made a mistake, it was 265 ave, not 165!

Personally, I cannot sustain even 90% of FT power (NP) for an extended period during crits, because of the drastic variations. Maybe that's a personal weakness (of mine), but I'd estimate that the OP's FT could be ~10% higher than his best 60-minute NP from that race.

Really, though, it's much better to consider several (many) rides of different types if you're going to estimate FT from race or group ride NP.

pcannell said:

it is from the entire 75 minutes - and I made a mistake, it was 265 ave, not 165!

I'm assuming you have CP, in that you know your NP figure?
If you highlight your best 60 minutes in the box to the left of the graph, this should give you an NP figure. From this you can make adjustments in the way frenchyge mentions to get your FTP.

yes, best 60 min NP power is 315w, so my FT should be about 10% higher than at? (346w)

pcannell said:

yes, best 60 min NP power is 315w, so my FT should be about 10% higher than at? (346w)

Well, that's possible. It's also possible that it is no higher than 315W. What was AP? If the AP/NP ratio is low, then that max NP segment of the total ride was highly stochastic and you drew more heavily on your AWC. If the AP/NP ratio is high, then that segment was less stochastic and drew less heavily on your AWC. A low AP/NP ratio (more use of AWC) increases the uncertainty of your FT as derived from the ride file. Does that make sense?

Any chance you could post the data file? I'd really LOVE to see what your race looked like.

I ask because (as I mentioned in another thread) I've never raced before and there's a Cat4/5 flat crit race coming up next month that I want to try but I *really* don't want to get dropped. Plus I don't want to crash and get seriously injured. This morning I did a 1-hour workout with a NP of 285 with a 10 second sprint in the 850-900 watt range every three minutes or so (that's one of the workouts on my current Hunter Allen training plan). I feel as though I easily could have exceeded an NP of 300 for that hour with some motivation and the crit in question is only 30 minutes. Based on that, would I at least be able to stay with the Cat 4/5 group?

I'm just paranoid about (a) getting hurt and (b) getting dropped. Thoughts?

Again, I would LOVE to see links to data files from crits in any category.

--Steve

ZimboNC said:

Any chance you could post the data file? I'd really LOVE to see what your race looked like.

I ask because (as I mentioned in another thread) I've never raced before and there's a Cat4/5 flat crit race coming up next month that I want to try but I *really* don't want to get dropped. Plus I don't want to crash and get seriously injured. This morning I did a 1-hour workout with a NP of 285 with a 10 second sprint in the 850-900 watt range every three minutes or so (that's one of the workouts on my current Hunter Allen training plan). I feel as though I easily could have exceeded an NP of 300 for that hour with some motivation and the crit in question is only 30 minutes. Based on that, would I at least be able to stay with the Cat 4/5 group?

I'm just paranoid about (a) getting hurt and (b) getting dropped. Thoughts?

Again, I would LOVE to see links to data files from crits in any category.

--Steve

Cat 3/4 crit from the Tour de Ephrata the course had a hill in it and 2 very tight corners. Rode as agressive as possible and spent a good amount of time in the wind. A course like this will always produce way higher figures then a flat and/or wide course so pick your course wisely. Stayed near the front.65 kilos 5'11".

I can post the file if you need but here is the summary. 33 spikes over 600 watts. They cut the crit way short because of time.

[b]Tour de Ephrata Crit:

[/b]Duration: 33:00

Work: 531 kJ

TSS: 55.2 (intensity factor 1.002)

Norm Power: 306

Distance: 14.181 mi

Min Max Avg
Power: 0 825 268 watts
Heart Rate: 0 0 0 bpm

Cadence: 31 125 95 rpm

Speed: 14.4 32.6 25.8 mph

Torque: 0 829 231 lb-in

Altitude: 75 115 92 ft




Fitness wise - you probably can do it. Skill wise, well there are worse things then getting dropped. Can't go into a race fearing getting dropped because it happens to a lot a people.


Greg

Here is the data file. This was from the hagerstown, md crit last weekend, cat 1/2/3 race. It was 75 min long, not too hot and not super hard, but pretty fast. I managed 1 prime and 9th place. I don't currently have access to CP, so I'd love some analysis and feedback!

thanks

ZimboNC said:

Any chance you could post the data file? I'd really LOVE to see what your race looked like.

Sure. You have CP? If so, which version? If you don't, I could post the CSV file and you could look at it with Excel.

ZimboNC said:

I ask because (as I mentioned in another thread) I've never raced before and there's a Cat4/5 flat crit race coming up next month that I want to try but I *really* don't want to get dropped. Plus I don't want to crash and get seriously injured. This morning I did a 1-hour workout with a NP of 285 with a 10 second sprint in the 850-900 watt range every three minutes or so (that's one of the workouts on my current Hunter Allen training plan). I feel as though I easily could have exceeded an NP of 300 for that hour with some motivation and the crit in question is only 30 minutes. Based on that, would I at least be able to stay with the Cat 4/5 group?

Probably, if you stay up near the front. If you get too far back, you increase the likelihood of having to close a large gap when somebody in front of you opens a gap.

ZimboNC said:

I'm just paranoid about (a) getting hurt and (b) getting dropped. Thoughts?

Bona fide concerns. Try to stay on the inside line on the turns (if a guys goes down, he will slide out and take down riders to his outside) and keep your shoulders ahead of the guy's shoulders to your outside (to prevent him from cutting you off exiting the turn).

RapDaddyo said:

Sure. You have CP? If so, which version?

I believe I have the latest version of CP WKO+ (build 28 it says).

Thanks for the advice about handling the corners.

--Steve

ZimboNC said:

I believe I have the latest version of CP WKO+ (build 28 it says).

Thanks for the advice about handling the corners.

Here's the WKO file (old version) and the match analysis output data.

RapDaddyo said:

Here's the WKO file (old version) and the match analysis output data.

Very cool, thanks! So my next question is... How did you calculate the match data? That's not a feature of CP is it?

--Steve

ZimboNC said:

Very cool, thanks! So my next question is... How did you calculate the match data? That's not a feature of CP is it?

Aha! Unfortunately, it's proprietary. But, someday you may see something resembling this in CP.😉

ZimboNC said:

I feel as though I easily could have exceeded an NP of 300 for that hour with some motivation and the crit in question is only 30 minutes. Based on that, would I at least be able to stay with the Cat 4/5 group?

I'm just paranoid about (a) getting hurt and (b) getting dropped. Thoughts?.

LOL. 😄 Don't worry about (b). It happens to most everyone in their first crit, but with your power it probably won't happen again after that.

ZimboNC said:

Again, I would LOVE to see links to data files from crits in any category.

See attached Cat 4 crit on flat course where I finished ~10th. Field was about 25-30. Ignore the part where my speed quickly goes from 32.8mph to 0mph. That was just me and a couple other guys working on (a), above. 🙂

pcannell said:

yes, best 60 min NP power is 315w, so my FT should be about 10% higher than at? (346w)

That's my WAG (wild-assed guess). If FT is going to play an important role in your training levels, you really need to spend more effort trying to do a better assessment, however. 345w might be a decent starting pace to do some long-ish intervals or test TT's.

RapDaddyo said:

Here's the WKO file (old version) and the match analysis output data.

Hey RDO,

327 AWC?!

When will we start seeing some Kilo and Pusuit times?

Jim

otb4evr said:

Hey RDO,

327 AWC?!

When will we start seeing some Kilo and Pusuit times?

Jim

327 J/kg is a bit above average, but it's not sky high. Sky-high is 400 J/kg in a woman. 😉