Buy or build

Brian Tkatch wrote:

Everything snipped

Please don't feed the trolls.
Phil Brown

Brian Tkatch said:

I have some fear of ten speeds, most likely unfounded, that they are
not as safe as mountain bikes. But i am basing this on the thickness of
the wheels and not much else. At 5'4" i have found some bikes leaving
me without my feet on the ground. I am wondering what the optimal
height is. I am overweight, so bike seats can hurt. I weigh in at about
two-hundred pounds right now.

It might be helpful of you could decide what you are looking for first.
As for the safety of mountain bikes, you might find that you have more
control over a road bike or you may not. There are also in between
bikes called hybrids and comfort bikes. I would do as much research as
you can and try out as many bikes as you can before you pull the
trigger. A lot of big towns have shops the deal in used bikes and many
big shops have a trade-in rack. My first couple of bikes were bought
that way till I could figure out what it was that suited me the best.

catzz66 said:

Brian Tkatch said:

I have some fear of ten speeds, most likely unfounded, that they are
not as safe as mountain bikes. But i am basing this on the thickness of
the wheels and not much else. At 5'4" i have found some bikes leaving
me without my feet on the ground. I am wondering what the optimal
height is. I am overweight, so bike seats can hurt. I weigh in at about
two-hundred pounds right now.

Thanx for replying.

Quoted message said:

It might be helpful of you could decide what you are looking for first.

True. That is why i mentioned that.

Quoted message said:

As for the safety of mountain bikes, you might find that you have more
control over a road bike or you may not.

I never thought i didn't have control of a mountain bike.

Quoted message said:

There are also in between bikes called hybrids and comfort bikes.

In between mountain and road?

Quoted message said:

I would do as much research as you can

Well, joining this NG was step one. Posting this message was step two.
I'm looking for some guidance, or a good place to read up on these
things.

Quoted message said:

and try out as many bikes as you can before you pull the trigger.

Perhaps. I prefer research to action. That is, i get a better feel for
it by reading about it, and can make a more informed decision than when
asked to physically try something out. In general, it takes me much
longer to get a feel for it that would be well enough to base a
decision upon it.

Quoted message said:

A lot of big towns have shops the deal in used bikes and many big shops have a
trade-in rack. My first couple of bikes were bought that way till I could figure out what
it was that suited me the best.

That's not a bad idea.

I am a bit nervous in wondering if a bike shop would want to help me
out as opposed to just making a sale. And, in the end, i'd probably by
things online, assuming it was cheaper, so mooching free advice may not
be appropriate from a store whose help is to help sell, not discuss. I
feel almost if i'd prefer working with a repair shop instead of a
retail shop.

Where could i find a list of helpful shops? That is, someone i could
talk to about all this, and perhaps, as you said, try out various bikes
from a used rack. I live in the Detroit area, specifically in Oak Park.

B.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It might be helpful of you could decide what you are looking for first.

True. That is why i mentioned that.

What kind of riding do you want to do? On road or off road.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

As for the safety of mountain bikes, you might find that you have more
control over a road bike or you may not.

Quoted message said:

Well, joining this NG was step one. Posting this message was step two.
I'm looking for some guidance, or a good place to read up on these
things.

A better path would be to find a club in your area and join it. You'll
get faster responses to your questions. Plus it's a good bet that
someone will have a bike you can buy cheap.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and try out as many bikes as you can before you pull the trigger.

Perhaps. I prefer research to action. That is, i get a better feel for
it by reading about it, and can make a more informed decision than when
asked to physically try something out. In general, it takes me much
longer to get a feel for it that would be well enough to base a
decision upon it.

Reading isn't a great way to learn about bikes-riding is.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I am a bit nervous in wondering if a bike shop would want to help me
out as opposed to just making a sale. And, in the end, i'd probably by
things online, assuming it was cheaper, so mooching free advice may not
be appropriate from a store whose help is to help sell, not discuss. I
feel almost if i'd prefer working with a repair shop instead of a
retail shop.
B.

Why do you assume that a reatil shop wouldn't want to help you? Some
are just after the sale but most are only too happy to help you and
gain a long term customer. A small shop that's been there for a long
time is a good bet. And if you join a club I'll bet there's a shop that
the members go to.
Phil Brown

Brian Tkatch said:

Quoted message said:

As for the safety of mountain bikes, you might find that you have more
control over a road bike or you may not.

I never thought i didn't have control of a mountain bike.

I didn't want to introduce my own opinion, but to let you form yours,
but the front wheel feels lighter to me on a mountain bike than a road
bike, so a road bike feels more stable to me. Perhaps there is just
more of my weight on the front wheel with a road bike.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

There are also in between bikes called hybrids and comfort bikes.

In between mountain and road?

Yes. More upright seating than a road bike, straight handlebars, but
with wider tires than a road bike.

If you are planning on getting new parts, get a stock bike. Building your own
will end up costing you more. If you are going to build up your bike using
used parts, then you might save money. Might because if you don't know how to
tell a used part from a used up part, you will be throwing away money.
-----------------
Alex

Brian Tkatch said:

Quoted message said:

Brian Tkatch said:

I have some fear of ten speeds, most likely unfounded, that they are
not as safe as mountain bikes. But i am basing this on the thickness of
the wheels and not much else. At 5'4" i have found some bikes leaving
me without my feet on the ground. I am wondering what the optimal
height is. I am overweight, so bike seats can hurt. I weigh in at about
two-hundred pounds right now.

I am a bit nervous in wondering if a bike shop would want to help me
out as opposed to just making a sale. And, in the end, i'd probably by
things online, assuming it was cheaper, so mooching free advice may not
be appropriate from a store whose help is to help sell, not discuss. I
feel almost if i'd prefer working with a repair shop instead of a
retail shop.

Where could i find a list of helpful shops? That is, someone i could
talk to about all this, and perhaps, as you said, try out various bikes
from a used rack. I live in the Detroit area, specifically in Oak Park.

B.

With your budget, you are better off buying used. Start somewhere,
check out Goodwill and garage sales. When you find a bike that fits
reasonably well,with a low price buy it.
Do you know anyone who knows about bikes? If so, take them along.

After you find a bike that fits and you like it, go to the bike shop
and have them do a basic tune up, and ask them if they can help you
adjust things so that it fits as well as possible. ask about any fees,
before they do any work, most shops charge for a real fitting, but
will help you adjust the seat height, and bars at no charge.

You don't have the knowledge or ability to build a bike, at this time.
And with your budget, you might be able to buy a cheap frame and a
front wheel, but that's it.

Here is a good place to start reading:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/beginners/index.html

http://sheldonbrown.com/articles.html

Good luck
Jeff

Jeff Starr said:

Brian Tkatch said:

Quoted message said:

Brian Tkatch wrote:
>
> I have some fear of ten speeds, most likely unfounded, that they are
> not as safe as mountain bikes. But i am basing this on the thickness of
> the wheels and not much else. At 5'4" i have found some bikes leaving
> me without my feet on the ground. I am wondering what the optimal
> height is. I am overweight, so bike seats can hurt. I weigh in at about
> two-hundred pounds right now.
>

I am a bit nervous in wondering if a bike shop would want to help me
out as opposed to just making a sale. And, in the end, i'd probably by
things online, assuming it was cheaper, so mooching free advice may not
be appropriate from a store whose help is to help sell, not discuss. I
feel almost if i'd prefer working with a repair shop instead of a
retail shop.

Where could i find a list of helpful shops? That is, someone i could
talk to about all this, and perhaps, as you said, try out various bikes
from a used rack. I live in the Detroit area, specifically in Oak Park.

B.

With your budget, you are better off buying used.

Wow, i didn't realize that a beginner's approach would be so expensive.

Quoted message said:

Start somewhere, check out Goodwill and garage sales. When you find a bike that fits
reasonably well,with a low price buy it

How do i define "fit". Is it how it fells, how it rides, where my feet
are in relation to the pedals or ground, where my hands are in relation
to the handlebars? I know i'll learn this over time, just right now i
do not know what to look for.

Quoted message said:

Do you know anyone who knows about bikes? If so, take them along.

Unfortunately not.

Quoted message said:

After you find a bike that fits and you like it, go to the bike shop
and have them do a basic tune up, and ask them if they can help you
adjust things so that it fits as well as possible. ask about any fees,
before they do any work, most shops charge for a real fitting, but
will help you adjust the seat height, and bars at no charge.

What's in the tune up? If it's just pulling out a wrench and setting
things right, i can do that myself. (I actually want to do it myself.)
If it's something an amateur cannot easily do, perhaps i should leave
it up to the shop as you suggest

Quoted message said:

You don't have the knowledge or ability to build a bike, at this time.

Which is why i am asking and ready to read. Such as the link you
provided. I'll have to see how much effort and time is required to do
this properly though. I'm still in the preliminary stages of this
project.

Quoted message said:

And with your budget, you might be able to buy a cheap frame and a
front wheel, but that's it.

Is a cheap frame a bad thing?

Here's three question that i think would help set things straight for
me.

1) (In your estimate) What would be the cost of a beginner's home-built
bike?
2) What would be the cost of a pre-built (store-bought) bike of
equivalent usage-value?
3) Are there any advantages of a home-built over store-bought?

Quoted message said:

Here is a good place to start reading:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/beginners/index.html

http://sheldonbrown.com/articles.html

Thanx for the links. I ought to check these out when i get home today.

Quoted message said:

Good luck
Jeff

I appreciate your reply. Thanx.

B.

catzz66 said:

Brian Tkatch said:

Quoted message said:

As for the safety of mountain bikes, you might find that you have more
control over a road bike or you may not.

I never thought i didn't have control of a mountain bike.

I didn't want to introduce my own opinion, but to let you form yours,
but the front wheel feels lighter to me on a mountain bike than a road
bike, so a road bike feels more stable to me. Perhaps there is just
more of my weight on the front wheel with a road bike.

Thanx. That's nice of you not to want to present your opinion as fact.
But, at least here, i have no sound footing on which to stand to form
my own opinion. I think i'll have to go by a general consensus for now,
and perhaps revisit the issue later.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

There are also in between bikes called hybrids and comfort bikes.

In between mountain and road?

Yes. More upright seating than a road bike, straight handlebars, but
with wider tires than a road bike.

That does sound fairly interesing. I'll keep my eyes peeled to see if i
can tell the difference.

B.

Alex Rodriguez said:

If you are planning on getting new parts, get a stock bike. Building your own
will end up costing you more. If you are going to build up your bike using
used parts, then you might save money. Might because if you don't know how to
tell a used part from a used up part, you will be throwing away money.
-----------------
Alex

I was thinking of finding a base part, and purchasing that new, and add
other parts as new, as time moved on. All depending on price though.

I don't know anything about parts (yet). This is a project i am looking
into. I plan to read and ask, assuming the information is availible
through something other than experience.

B.

Brian Tkatch said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>There are also in between bikes called hybrids and comfort bikes.

In between mountain and road?

Yes. More upright seating than a road bike, straight handlebars, but
with wider tires than a road bike.

That does sound fairly interesing. I'll keep my eyes peeled to see if i
can tell the difference.

B.

Check out some of the web pages of bike shops near you. They often have
their pages organized where you can sort the bikes they sell by
brand, type, etc. For me it was a great way to familiarize myself with
what was out there, how bikes are equipped, what the new models cost and
so on. I bought two bargain basement used bikes, one mountain and one
road bike. Total investment was 375. Swapped around since then and
just ride road, but that is how I did it.

catzz66 said:

Brian Tkatch said:

Quoted message said:

>>There are also in between bikes called hybrids and comfort bikes.
>
>
>In between mountain and road?
>
>

Yes. More upright seating than a road bike, straight handlebars, but
with wider tires than a road bike.

That does sound fairly interesing. I'll keep my eyes peeled to see if i
can tell the difference.

B.

Check out some of the web pages of bike shops near you. They often have
their pages organized where you can sort the bikes they sell by
brand, type, etc. For me it was a great way to familiarize myself with
what was out there, how bikes are equipped, what the new models cost and
so on. I bought two bargain basement used bikes, one mountain and one
road bike. Total investment was 375. Swapped around since then and
just ride road, but that is how I did it.

What do you mean by "swapped around"? That you rode both depending on
your mood?

B.

Brian Tkatch said:

I am new to this group, and know very little about bicycles. My bike
was stolen, so i borrowed my brother's (cheap) bike, which was stolen
as well. I keep my bike in the apartment now.

A good idea. Although some heavy locks are "very secure", anything can
be broken and I imagine in Detroit everything is. The best defence
against bike theft is a good lock and a crappy bike that no one else
wants, or a bike so out of fashion that no one else wants it. Until
recently, what you call a 'ten speed", otherwise known today as a "road
bike" (since they now typically have 18-30 speeds), used to be out of
fashion enough to offer some protection, but that may not be the case
any more, thanks to Lance Armstrong.

[...]

Quoted message said:

So, now, i am looking for a new bike.

Quoted message said:

travel, i've been toying with the idea of building my own bike.

At this point, i could definitely use some guidance, and so i am here,
asking for help.

I'll try to mention what i'd use it for.

I ride my bike the overwhelming majority of the time in town on paved
paths, sidewalks, and roads. My preference is (when i get into it) to
ride a few hours at a time, though in general i make frequent stops as
i meet other people. That is, i take a few hours, which is a mix of
both riding and socializing. I am looking to setup nighttime riding
with a friend, perhaps an hour or two in a shot, as we used to do years
ago.

I have some fear of ten speeds, most likely unfounded, that the y are
not as safe as mountain bikes. But i am basing this on the thickness of
the wheels and not much else. At 5'4" i have found some bikes leaving
me without my feet on the ground. I am wondering what the optimal
height is. I am overweight, so bi ke seats can hurt. I weigh in at about
two-hundred pounds right now.

[...]

Quoted message said:

As for willing to spend. I have no idea what the ranges should be, but
fromthe sticker prices i've seen, i'd gather that a "good" bike costs a
few hundred. I'd prefer to start off cheaper, and perhaps build up
should i get "into it". Like start off with a good frame, and other
components upgraded later. So, i'd be willing to spend a few hundred on
this project, but definitely not a thousand, at least not at first.

In your price range used is definitely the best value, if you know what
you are doing. Building up from a frame can be great too, again if you
know what you are doing- but it almost always costs a lot more, unless
you are going to really work to scrounge the parts.

As you realize, everything depends on knowing what you are doing. Start
of with the various articles and links at Sheldon Brown's site
<www.sheldonbrown.com/harris>, which includes the FAQ for this group.
In no particular order, try also:

1.<http://www.rivendellbicycles.com/html/rr_comfposition.html>
2. <http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/fitting.htm>
3. <http://www.kenkifer.com/bikepages/index.htm>
4. <http://www.myra-simon.com/bike/>
5. <http://www.audax.uk.net/lights/index.htm>

And for fun:
<http://www.trentobike.org/>
<http://www.torelli.com/travel/lifeindx.shtml>

This should be more than enough for quite a while...
Good luck and happy riding.
..

Brian Tkatch said:

What do you mean by "swapped around"? That you rode both depending on
your mood?

Yes, at first. I alternated until I really was not riding the mountain
bike any more. The road bike was from the early 80s and I eventually
upgraded to a newer bike from the late 90s.

catzz66 said:

Brian Tkatch said:

What do you mean by "swapped around"? That you rode both depending on
your mood?

Yes, at first. I alternated until I really was not riding the mountain
bike any more. The road bike was from the early 80s and I eventually
upgraded to a newer bike from the late 90s.

OK, thanx.

I've started to read the links provided in this thread. I just read a
couple things last night. I hope to read more over this weekend.

It may be a good idea to try more than one. Who knows? We'll see.

B.

41 said:

Brian Tkatch said:

I am new to this group, and know very little about bicycles. My bike
was stolen, so i borrowed my brother's (cheap) bike, which was stolen
as well. I keep my bike in the apartment now.

A good idea. Although some heavy locks are "very secure", anything can
be broken and I imagine in Detroit everything is. The best defence
against bike theft is a good lock and a crappy bike that no one else
wants, or a bike so out of fashion that no one else wants it. Until
recently, what you call a 'ten speed", otherwise known today as a "road
bike" (since they now typically have 18-30 speeds), used to be out of
fashion enough to offer some protection, but that may not be the case
any more, thanks to Lance Armstrong.

[...]

Quoted message said:

So, now, i am looking for a new bike.

Quoted message said:

travel, i've been toying with the idea of building my own bike.

At this point, i could definitely use some guidance, and so i am here,
asking for help.

I'll try to mention what i'd use it for.

I ride my bike the overwhelming majority of the time in town on paved
paths, sidewalks, and roads. My preference is (when i get into it) to
ride a few hours at a time, though in general i make frequent stops as
i meet other people. That is, i take a few hours, which is a mix of
both riding and socializing. I am looking to setup nighttime riding
with a friend, perhaps an hour or two in a shot, as we used to do years
ago.

I have some fear of ten speeds, most likely unfounded, that the y are
not as safe as mountain bikes. But i am basing this on the thickness of
the wheels and not much else. At 5'4" i have found some bikes leaving
me without my feet on the ground. I am wondering what the optimal
height is. I am overweight, so bi ke seats can hurt. I weigh in at about
two-hundred pounds right now.

[...]

Quoted message said:

As for willing to spend. I have no idea what the ranges should be, but
fromthe sticker prices i've seen, i'd gather that a "good" bike costs a
few hundred. I'd prefer to start off cheaper, and perhaps build up
should i get "into it". Like start off with a good frame, and other
components upgraded later. So, i'd be willing to spend a few hundred on
this project, but definitely not a thousand, at least not at first.

In your price range used is definitely the best value, if you know what
you are doing. Building up from a frame can be great too, again if you
know what you are doing- but it almost always costs a lot more, unless
you are going to really work to scrounge the parts.

As you realize, everything depends on knowing what you are doing. Start
of with the various articles and links at Sheldon Brown's site
<www.sheldonbrown.com/harris>, which includes the FAQ for this group.
In no particular order, try also:

1.<http://www.rivendellbicycles.com/html/rr_comfposition.html>
2. <http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/fitting.htm>
3. <http://www.kenkifer.com/bikepages/index.htm>
4. <http://www.myra-simon.com/bike/>
5. <http://www.audax.uk.net/lights/index.htm>

And for fun:
<http://www.trentobike.org/>
<http://www.torelli.com/travel/lifeindx.shtml>

This should be more than enough for quite a while...
Good luck and happy riding.
.

Thanx for all the links. I started to read the Sheldon Brown site last
night, just reading the Beginner's article and "Revisionist Frame
Sizing", with appropriate dictionary entries. 🙂

I ought to read more over the weekend.

One thing about that Sheldon Brown site, however, is that the
background many times makes the text difficult for me to read. Well, i
just highlight it to read it, so it's ok.

B.

Quoting Brian Tkatch <[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

One thing about that Sheldon Brown site, however, is that the
background many times makes the text difficult for me to read. Well, i
just highlight it to read it, so it's ok.

Better Web browsers allow you to suppress most Web design.
--
OPTIONS=name:Kirsty,menustyle:C,female,lit_corridor,standout,time,showexp,hilit
e_pet,catname:Akane,dogname:Ryoga,fruit:okonomiyaki,pickup_types:"!$?=/,scores:
5 top/2 around,color,boulder:0,autoquiver,autodig,disclose:yiyayvygyc,pickup_bu
rden:burdened,!cmdassist,msg_window:reversed,!sparkle,horsename:Rumiko,showrace

On 30 Jun 2006 05:58:07 -0700, "Brian Tkatch"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

[snip]

Quoted message said:

One thing about that Sheldon Brown site, however, is that the
background many times makes the text difficult for me to read. Well, i
just highlight it to read it, so it's ok.

B.

Dear Brian,

Some day, web-page designers will look at a book or word processor
screen and notice the advantages of a blank background.

Until then, we have to deal with the fuzz and clutter of
something-or-other logos that make it hard to read what we're
interested in.

It's unlikely that anyone would guess what the logo is on this page
unless they scrolled down to the explanation:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/

Of course, a clearer design on the background logo would only make the
text even harder to read.

To be fair, the background isn't that bad, but your comment reminds me
just how low my standards have sunk. Like the apocryphal frog in the
pot on the stove that fails to notice the water temperature slowly
rising, I've gotten used to web-page backgrounds that make it hard to
read their own text.

Switch back and forth from the link above with its endless logo
background to this one with its plain desert yellow for a good
comparison:

http://sheldonbrown.com/home.html

Much easier to read.

Or look at this large new section:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/

No wallpaper pattern of bicycle wheels, just a blank khaki background.

(There! I've vented my spleen and lashed out with unprovoked fury at
Sheldon Brown! That'll teach him to provide an enormous free resource
of wonderful bicycling stuff for the likes of me to enjoy! I should
have worked in something about burning the Harris site to the ground
to get rid of that logo, but probably someone would fail to read
Sheldon's explanation of the logo and take me seriously.)

(Now I'm filled with remorse. What can I do to make up for savaging
Sheldon's innocent logo? I could hit the delete button and not send
this post . . . Fat chance.)

(Hmmm . . . Jobst has been politely asking me via email to please use
tinyURL for the long addresses I fling about in other posts because
some posters have to copy and paste four lines together just to see
what nonsense I'm talking about. So I'll try to tinyURL long addresses
as penance. I'll start right now . . . Oops, Sheldon's site may have
background logos, but it has nothing but short, sensible URL's.)

Carl Fogel

David Damerell said:

Quoting Brian Tkatch <[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

One thing about that Sheldon Brown site, however, is that the
background many times makes the text difficult for me to read. Well, i
just highlight it to read it, so it's ok.

Better Web browsers allow you to suppress most Web design.

Dear David and Brian,

Ha! I just noticed my note to look into this.

In Internet Explorer, click on tools, internet options, general,
accessibility. Then check the "ignore colors" box. Sheldon's logo
background is ruthlessly censored:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/index.html

In Mozilla Firefox, click on tools, options, content, and colors.
Then uncheck the "allow pages to choose their own colors" box, refresh
the page, and Sheldon's page reappears with its background as pure as
the driven snow.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel