Q-factor adjustment

Harris Cyclery have ""Kneesaver" Pedal Spacers $44.95 "
http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/pedals.html

Thank You!

You might also really appreciate 175mm or longer cranks.

I put shorter cranks on my bike because my knees would become slightly uncomfortable after about 4 hours.

Now, they hurt like crazy after about 1/2 hour!

So, I'm ordering some 175mm cranks very soon. . .certainly before the next ride. Oh, and how I wish they were available even longer!

That doesn't make a wider Q-factor, but it feels nice.

You can get a wider Q-factor from ordering a longer bottom bracket. I'm sure that the Harris Cyclery knee savers will do the same job, though.

As a temporary measure, to get out of pain, I installed some German rubber-block commuter pedals (not the cheap, heavy Chinese knockoff). These are the real thing and about 150 grams lighter than the knockoffs. Still, twice as heavy as a normal pedal. About 1/3 larger, every direction.

They worked. The weight was a bit frightening when I picked them up, but after installation, and after figuring out the malicious backwards threading of the left side, my performance had increased by a nice margin and several hours additional riding time.

I also learned that shoe attachment wasn't vital. Behaving like you DO have shoe attachment is vital.

It seems that majority of the benefit from shoe attachment is in picking up the leg that isn't pushing the bike. The shoe need not be attached at all.

It can be hard to remember, and I have gotten tired when I forgot to do it.
Without shoe attachment, and with riding like I still have it, my shoe gets a somewhat loose feeling near the top of the pedal stroke. At first I was clumsy and my shoe would actually leave the pedal, but I got the technique down after a couple of short rides.

Simply not making the working leg to push the idle leg up had the same results, via speedometer, as shoe attachment. Just harder to remember to do it.

Now I don't know if I'll put the shoe attachment back on the bike after the longer cranks arrive. Certainly, the big pedals cause some laughing, considering that nothing else is made of steel. This looks ridiculous! But, I really like the increased endurance. What would you do?

tribiker520 said:

I need a way to get a wider q-factor on my bike. I have a Shimano Ultegra FC6600 crankset with a Hallowtech II bottom bracket and I use SPD cleats. I went to a bike store, and they said there's no way to get a different crankset or bottom bracket, and I need to do it with the pedals. Does anyone know the options for widening the cleats with SPD pedals? Are there pedals out there that are wider or adjustable? Is there some sort of shim or washer that could be used?

Thanks!

Which shoes are you using?

If you're a triathlete, you should consider a ROAD shoe with LOOK-compatible cleats ... you will have more left-right adjustment, and can increase/widen the Q-factor by a couple of millimeters.

Your bike store is partly correct -- you cannot change the Q-factor with your current crankset.

To state the obvious, you should have had a better sense of the Q-factor you needed/wanted based on your old bike's setup ... BUT, ARE YOU CERTAIN YOU WANT YOUR FEET SET WIDER ON THE PEDALS?

Unfortunately, IF YOU DO WANT A WIDER Q-FACTOR, the easiest thing for you to do is to sell the cranks on eBay (or, to a friend who is local to you) and get an older, Octalink crank BUT EITHER use a 118mm bottom bracket intended for a triple OR get an XTR/XT/LX Octalink crank ...

The Q-factor on Shimano's MTB cranks is wider, but the chainline is also ~5mm wider ... for example, if you were to mount an Octalink XTR 950 MTB crank on a 109mm Octalink ROAD bottom bracket, the Q-factor would be wider than if you were to mount a DA/Ultegra/105 Octalink ROAD crank on the same 109mm BB.

... The XT/LX cranks use a different Octalink BB.

You WILL probably find 175mm cranks ARE better unless you are really short ... particularly for triathlon-type riding.

BTW. If you really want you feet set wider AND don't want to buy new shoes ... if your shoes have NYLON soles (vs. carbon fiber) you can drill a hole closer to the inside edge of the shoe and use a self-threading, WOOD screw for one of the anchoring screws. Depending on the shoe, if it is a MTB shoe, you will have to remove some of the "rubber" tread that may be present so the cleat can rest on the sole of the shoe.

Be wary of on-line advice from people on crank length who have no idea of your body geometry. Get things properly fitted if you are going to make an adjustment to that as well as Q-factor. Although often not evident at first, if you ride much, using too long a crank can cause permanent knee damage which one will regret some years down the road.

danielhaden said:

You might also really appreciate 175mm or longer cranks

I'm not sure why you'd make such a suggestion without knowing how tall this person is. I'm 6ft, and I experimented with 180 mm cranks for 12 months. They didn't work (totally screwed up my position and seemed to cause some medial ligament discomfort), and I now have 172.5 and 175 (I'm still deciding which length to stick to). Longer cranks increase the stess on the knees due to increased flexion under load through the top of the pedal stroke.

Longer cranks may increase leverage, but any benefits are often negated by being in a much lower position; i.e., long cranks aren't any good if the rider doesn't have the height or leg length to get 'on top of' them, and/or the strength to push them.

danielhaden said:

I put shorter cranks on my bike because my knees would become slightly uncomfortable after about 4 hours. Now, they hurt like crazy after about 1/2 hour!

this doesn't make sense. What length did you go to, and did you adjust your seat accordingly?

danielhaden said:

I also learned that shoe attachment wasn't vital. Behaving like you DO have shoe attachment is vital.....
.The shoe need not be attached at all.
Now I don't know if I'll put the shoe attachment back on the bike after the longer cranks arrive.

are you saying you don't ride with cleats or straps at all? Having an unrestricted foot position makes changes in crank length less impactful

gclark8 said:

Harris Cyclery have ""Kneesaver" Pedal Spacers $44.95 "
http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/pedals.html

I've seen these before and I'm not sure I like the look of them. As my dad you to say to me: "they're not designed for that, son". 🙂 I'm no metalurgist, but I don't think cranks aren't designed to have such increased leverage coming from the pedals.

I suggest getting some square tapered cranks and use a wider bottom bracket.

Why? Oh, because "Q-factor" and wider tread go with "knock knee'd" people who all find shorter cranks to be extraordinarily painful and exhausting. The person in search of wider pedals is also usually not able to spin at high rates without great pain. To get the same performance as everybody else, or even to enjoy a few neighborhood rides, long cranks or very long cranks provides great relief from pressure and excess spinning-type movement.

HOWEVER: The bow legged person may find short cranks to be of great benefit. You just won't usually find a bow legged person on a mission to get wider spaced pedals.

And, it is never necessary to stress your knee to 100% of your strength directly at the top of the pedal stroke. If your cranks are long, you may delay full pressure until the crank has passed down to an appropriate level--with no loss in performance as compared to substituting a shorter crank that would require top power all the way around. Obvious. Yet, technique is sometimes hard to remember while you're pedaling.

YES!!! Square taper is a great idea. You can collect a variety of cranks because all of the square taper is inexpensive. Oh, and it is so very easy and fast to remove/install square taper cranks with the $12 crank puller wrench. Shimano FC2200/2300 comes to mind as well as the many E-bay solutions, like Sora Square and others, all available in the many sizes.

Sugino XD600, a square taper touring (26, 36, 46) crankset of fine quality is also available in nearly every size crankarm and at a low price. One would need a 12t or 11t sprocket on the back to support touring crankset use with a road bike, but that isn't an unusual arrangement. In fact, the $25 Sugino Impel at 28, 38, 48 can work well enough on a road bike. Winning the price performance contests in its price range, performance. . .is not hindered. It is unusual to do this, but it is a great and inexpensive way to experiment and find the right size for you.

That (square taper) was fantastic advice (from the previous post).

Yes, experiment to find what works best for you. By all means!

531Aussie said:

I've seen these before and I'm not sure I like the look of them. As my dad you to say to me: "they're not designed for that, son". 🙂 I'm no metalurgist, but I don't think cranks aren't designed to have such increased leverage coming from the pedals.

I suggest getting some square tapered cranks and use a wider bottom bracket.

The spacer bolts do not exceed the design of the cranks when they are used with shoe attachment clipless pedals. I can't believe that I'm agreeing with glcark8 for once, but he's right. Maximum spec for pedals are full size, full length rubber block pedals. Clipless pedals plus spacers are actually less leverage than that.

Square taper and wider bottom bracket. Fantastic idea!!! Any size you want, good performance, doesn't cost much. Still works great. Allows inexpensive experimentation with sizing at no loss of performance. Yeah!! Wish I'd thought of it earlier.

danielhaden said:

... To get the same performance as everybody else, or even to enjoy a few neighborhood rides, long cranks or very long cranks provides great relief from pressure and excess spinning-type movement.

LOL What an absolute crock!!
:p

Slider77 said:

LOL What an absolute crock!!
:p

TOP POST!!! 😄

danielhaden said:

Why? Oh, because "Q-factor" and wider tread go with "knock knee'd" people who all find shorter cranks to be extraordinarily painful and exhausting. The person in search of wider pedals is also usually not able to spin at high rates without great pain. To get the same performance as everybody else, or even to enjoy a few neighborhood rides, long cranks or very long cranks provides great relief from pressure and excess spinning-type movement.

HOWEVER: The bow legged person may find short cranks to be of great benefit. You just won't usually find a bow legged person on a mission to get wider spaced pedals.

And, it is never necessary to stress your knee to 100% of your strength directly at the top of the pedal stroke. If your cranks are long, you may delay full pressure until the crank has passed down to an appropriate level--with no loss in performance as compared to substituting a shorter crank that would require top power all the way around. Obvious. Yet, technique is sometimes hard to remember while you're pedaling.

YES!!! Square taper is a great idea. You can collect a variety of cranks because all of the square taper is inexpensive. Oh, and it is so very easy and fast to remove/install square taper cranks with the $12 crank puller wrench. Shimano FC2200/2300 comes to mind as well as the many E-bay solutions, like Sora Square and others, all available in the many sizes.

Sugino XD600, a square taper touring (26, 36, 46) crankset of fine quality is also available in nearly every size crankarm and at a low price. One would need a 12t or 11t sprocket on the back to support touring crankset use with a road bike, but that isn't an unusual arrangement. In fact, the $25 Sugino Impel at 28, 38, 48 can work well enough on a road bike. Winning the price performance contests in its price range, performance. . .is not hindered. It is unusual to do this, but it is a great and inexpensive way to experiment and find the right size for you.

That (square taper) was fantastic advice (from the previous post).

Yes, experiment to find what works best for you. By all means!

Remember to be concise!

Slider77 said:

LOL What an absolute crock!!
:p

Maybe in your case, lots of spinning doesn't hurt.

Some people experience pain at the higher rpm.

Not crock! APPLICATION!!

531Aussie said:

I've seen these before and I'm not sure I like the look of them. As my dad you to say to me: "they're not designed for that, son". 🙂 I'm no metalurgist, but I don't think cranks aren't designed to have such increased leverage coming from the pedals.

I suggest getting some square tapered cranks and use a wider bottom bracket.

Possible that a simpler solution exists.

If the seat is too far forward because the handlebars are too low, this can also lead to the desire for a wider tread, etc. . . Sometimes, usually, it is just easier to install a stem riser and/or stem with shorter extension, and then put the seat back a bit to get the necessary relief.

Just a thought. Something to check out.