Frame weights.

Michael Press <[email hidden]> wrote in news:jack-9E8D07.12292307042006
@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com:

Quoted message said:

True or false, or generally true, or generally false: When
a manufacturer or dealer quotes a frame weight, the weigh
of the fork is not in the number.

True.

Quoted message said:

For instance one
manufacturer sells a steel road frame advertised at four
pounds, shows a picture of the frame sans fork, and gives
the option of a carbon fiber or steel fork. Appears to be
true in this case.

Many carbon frames + carbon forks will be more than 4 pounds together. Add
2-3 pounds for your average all steel frame/fork.

Mike asks:

<True or false, or generally true, or generally false: When
a manufacturer or dealer quotes a frame weight, the weigh
of the fork is not in the number.>

Well, you basically answered your own question. If the mfr or dealer is
"quoting a FRAME weight," then that's probably only for the FRAME.

In contrast, if the mfr or dealer quotes "a FRAMESET weight," then you
can probably expect a fork's weight to be included.

<What is the weight of a modern steel fork for a road frame? >

Expect a good steel fork with fork crown to weigh in the 1.4-1.7 lb
range

< Does anyone have one he can weigh and post the weight? >

Besides steel, what other factors are you including? Does this mystical
steel frame have lugs? Is it "fillet-brazed?" What kind of braze ons,
if any, do you want?

Rivendell states that one of its lugged steel FRAMES weigh about 4.5
lb. Expect the fork, with a true fork crown, to weigh another 1.5 lbs
or so.

The steel fork in my Rivendell weighs 870g. That's with a 280mm long 1"
steerer and Long Shen fork crown.

"Michael Press" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

True or false, or generally true, or generally false: When
a manufacturer or dealer quotes a frame weight, the weigh
of the fork is not in the number. For instance one
manufacturer sells a steel road frame advertised at four
pounds, shows a picture of the frame sans fork, and gives
the option of a carbon fiber or steel fork. Appears to be
true in this case.

What is the weight of a modern steel fork for a road frame?
Does anyone have one he can weigh and post the weight?

Michael Press said:

True or false, or generally true, or generally false: When
a manufacturer or dealer quotes a frame weight, the weigh
of the fork is not in the number. For instance one
manufacturer sells a steel road frame advertised at four
pounds, shows a picture of the frame sans fork, and gives
the option of a carbon fiber or steel fork. Appears to be
true in this case.

What is the weight of a modern steel fork for a road frame?
Does anyone have one he can weigh and post the weight?

--
Michael Press

From
http://www.weightweenies.starbike.com/listings/components.php?type=rigidforks
Klein CroMo 1997 865 g 180 mm steerer

Michael Press said:

True or false, or generally true, or generally false: When
a manufacturer or dealer quotes a frame weight, the weigh
of the fork is not in the number. For instance one
manufacturer sells a steel road frame advertised at four
pounds, shows a picture of the frame sans fork, and gives
the option of a carbon fiber or steel fork. Appears to be
true in this case.

What is the weight of a modern steel fork for a road frame?
Does anyone have one he can weigh and post the weight?

--
Michael Press

Reynolds 531 fork for a 1995 58cm Waterford, threaded 1" steerer. 1.5
pounds.

In article
<[email hidden]>,

bfd said:

Mike asks:

<True or false, or generally true, or generally false: When
a manufacturer or dealer quotes a frame weight, the weigh
of the fork is not in the number.>

Well, you basically answered your own question. If the mfr or dealer is
"quoting a FRAME weight," then that's probably only for the FRAME.

In contrast, if the mfr or dealer quotes "a FRAMESET weight," then you
can probably expect a fork's weight to be included.

<What is the weight of a modern steel fork for a road frame? >

Expect a good steel fork with fork crown to weigh in the 1.4-1.7 lb
range

< Does anyone have one he can weigh and post the weight? >

Besides steel, what other factors are you including? Does this mystical
steel frame have lugs? Is it "fillet-brazed?" What kind of braze ons,
if any, do you want?

I bought a new Columbus steel frame-set, three years ago.
It weighs 2700 g (6 lb), but I neglected to determine the
individual weights and was looking for estimates to
satisfy curiosity. While writing this the fog lifted
slightly and I saw that pulling, weighing, and installing
the fork; then washing up would be half an hour. Result is
fork weight = 850 g (30 oz); steering tube length = 285
mm.

Quoted message said:

Rivendell states that one of its lugged steel FRAMES weigh about 4.5
lb. Expect the fork, with a true fork crown, to weigh another 1.5 lbs
or so.

The frame is my ideal. Relatively inexpensive, tungsten
inert gas welded, true fork crown with brazed fork blades.
Sport frame, 436 mm chainstays, room for fenders and 32 mm
tires (25 mm currently).

--
Michael Press

In article <[email hidden]>,

Nick Payne said:

The steel fork in my Rivendell weighs 870g. That's with a 280mm long 1"
steerer and Long Shen fork crown.

"Michael Press" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

[...]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

What is the weight of a modern steel fork for a road frame?
Does anyone have one he can weigh and post the weight?

Thank you. See the `I am dim' report in the reply to bfd.

--
Michael Press

Michael Press said:

True or false, or generally true, or generally false: When
a manufacturer or dealer quotes a frame weight, the weigh
of the fork is not in the number.

Generally true.

For instance one

Quoted message said:

manufacturer sells a steel road frame advertised at four
pounds, shows a picture of the frame sans fork, and gives
the option of a carbon fiber or steel fork. Appears to be
true in this case.

What is the weight of a modern steel fork for a road frame?

Generally 1.3-5 pounds or so. My MXLeader fork is 1.5 pounds, my
Mondonico chrome fork is 1.3 pounds. A Waterford steel fork is 1.5
pounds.

Quoted message said:

Does anyone have one he can weigh and post the weight?

--
Michael Press

Michael Press said:

True or false, or generally true, or generally false: When
a manufacturer or dealer quotes a frame weight, the weigh
of the fork is not in the number. For instance one
manufacturer sells a steel road frame advertised at four
pounds, shows a picture of the frame sans fork, and gives
the option of a carbon fiber or steel fork. Appears to be
true in this case.

Nearly all "frame weights" will be listed without a fork. When there
are multiple ways to weigh and item, assume that 99.9% or
manufacturers will choose the one that results in the lower number.

Sometimes the ways to weigh an item involve calculating the
hypotetical weight of the item on the moon. ;-)

Quoted message said:

What is the weight of a modern steel fork for a road frame?
Does anyone have one he can weigh and post the weight?

The listed weight of the nice (and inexpensive) Tange steel fork is
753 grams (1-2/3 pounds) with a 230mm steer tube. Add/subtract about
1g/mm for other lengths of steer tube.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

Michael Press said:

True or false, or generally true, or generally false: When
a manufacturer or dealer quotes a frame weight, the weigh
of the fork is not in the number. For instance one
manufacturer sells a steel road frame advertised at four
pounds, shows a picture of the frame sans fork, and gives
the option of a carbon fiber or steel fork. Appears to be
true in this case.

What is the weight of a modern steel fork for a road frame?
Does anyone have one he can weigh and post the weight?

In the region of 1.5lb. One problem is that steerer length varies from
frame to frame, especially with A-Head when people like different
numbers of spacers, and affects the weight.

Michael Press said:

What is the weight of a modern steel fork for a road frame?
Does anyone have one he can weigh and post the weight?

Those who do so gang here:

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/listings/components.php?type=rigidforks

Not many steel road forks there though.

Konstantin.

Konstantin Shemyak said:

Those who do so gang here:
http://weightweenies.starbike.com/listings/components.php?type=rigidforks
Not many steel road forks there though.
Konstantin.

I knew I'd seen steel fork weights listed, and I finally found the
link. From
http://www.geocities.com/kwanseng/weight.html#forks

==============================================

A standard 1 inch steel steerer weighs 0.89 grams per millimeter.

MAKE & MODEL is the make and model of the fork I weighed.
LENGTH is the length of the steerer tube in millimeters.
ACTUAL is the weight of the fork.
NORMALIZED is the weight adjusted to a 175mm steerer tube. Use this
weight for comparisons. For forks with a steel steerer tube, I
calculated normalized weights from the actual weights by adding or
subtracting 0.89 grams per millimeter difference in steerer tube
length.

MAKE & MODEL LENGTH ACTUAL NORMALIZED COMMENTS
Mizuno Fiandre EWP 300 351 carbon fiber
steerer, uncut
Look HSC 3 all carbon 300 360 340 1 1/8". Cut length
230mm
AME Alpha-Q all carbon 272 364 1" standard curved
Reynolds Ouzo Pro 286 393,407 carbon fiber
steerer, uncut
Kestrel EMS ti steerer 175 400 400
Look Carbon, steel steerer 175 447 447
Mizuno F7 carbon steerer 300 450 carbon fiber
steerer, uncut
Look LDS carbon legs 175 482 482 1" steel steerer;
not aero model
Look LDS 2 271 488 1" carbon steerer
Time Equipe Pro 200 505 483
Kestrel EMS 240 551 493 for 650c wheel
Vitus bonded aluminum 220 536 496 1989 979 model?
Kinesis Easton 175 507 507 bonded aluminum
Trek OCLV Classic 175 508 508 s.n. 51958. Round
crown.
Specialized Direct Drive 141 484 514 Thin bonded aluminum
legs. Scary flexible.
Time Carbon 175 525 525 average of four
samples
Kestrel EMS 175 526 526 average of four
samples
Tange Fusion I aluminum 164 530 540 Bonded. Round crown.
Rinard N'Aero bonded steel 153 531 541 Alu steerer, steel
airfoil blades
Fuji titanium 211 565 544 Approx. 10% larger
OD than steel.
Easton EC 50 alu steerer 271 566
Prologue bonded aluminum 207 574 546 fully sloping crown
SR Prism 175 546 546 bonded aluminum
Quintana Roo (TET) 238 636 580 Steel. Round crown.
For 650c wheel.
Tange Silhouette 175 590 590 TIG welded steel
Tange Fusion II aluminum 200 618 596 Bonded. Steeply
sloping crown.
Trek bonded aluminum 176 599 598 Round crown.
Cannondale aluminum 205 654 627 1989? Made in USA.
Holland steel (Prestige?) 137 623 657 for 650c wheels.
Round crown.
Club Fuji VaLite steel 166 686 694
Fort straight orange 300 805 694 1" steel threadless
Brian Spitz Prestige 195 722 704 semi-sloping crown
Cannondale track 725
Waterford Paramount SLX 210 738 707 Henry James crown.
Colnago 175 730 730 steel, straight
blades
Kinesis aluminum cross 240 750 1" threadless alu
Merckx 175 777 777 steel, sloping crown
Merckx SLX 162 766 777 steel, from Corsa
Extra frame
Faggin Aelle 165 800 809 steel
Schwinn Varsity forged 206 1319! 1288 steel. Some frames
weigh less than this!

Thanks to Neil Aldridge, Jim Baker, Dave Campbell, Justin Forbes,
Carl Monson and Skip Peas for contributing to this list.

==============================================

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

Konstantin Shemyak said:

Those who do so gang here:
http://weightweenies.starbike.com/listings/components.php?type=rigidforks
Not many steel road forks there though.
Konstantin.

I knew I'd seen steel fork weights listed, and I finally found the
link. From
http://www.geocities.com/kwanseng/weight.html#forks

Thanks for this.

Quoted message said:

==============================================

A standard 1 inch steel steerer weighs 0.89 grams per millimeter.

I get 1.1 g / mm on this steering tube:

Outer diameter, R: 1.00" = 0.0254 m
Inner diameter, r: 0.85" = 0.02159 m
density of steel: 7850 kg/m^3
Volume of 0.001 m of steering tube: (R^2-r^2) / 4 * PI * 0.001 m
= 0.1406 e-6 m^3
mass of 0.001 m of steering tube: 0.001104 kg

--
Michael Press

Michael Press said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

Konstantin Shemyak said:

Those who do so gang here:
http://weightweenies.starbike.com/listings/components.php?type=rigidforks
Not many steel road forks there though.
Konstantin.

I knew I'd seen steel fork weights listed, and I finally found the
link. From
http://www.geocities.com/kwanseng/weight.html#forks

Thanks for this.

You're welcome!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

==============================================

A standard 1 inch steel steerer weighs 0.89 grams per millimeter.

I get 1.1 g / mm on this steering tube:

Outer diameter, R: 1.00" = 0.0254 m
Inner diameter, r: 0.85" = 0.02159 m
density of steel: 7850 kg/m^3
Volume of 0.001 m of steering tube: (R^2-r^2) / 4 * PI * 0.001 m
= 0.1406 e-6 m^3
mass of 0.001 m of steering tube: 0.001104 kg

--
Michael Press

What's the ID? Aren't standard quill stems 22.2mm OD? Not sure how much
clearance there may be.

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

Michael Press said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

Konstantin Shemyak wrote:
> Those who do so gang here:
> http://weightweenies.starbike.com/listings/components.php?type=rigidforks
> Not many steel road forks there though.
> Konstantin.

I knew I'd seen steel fork weights listed, and I finally found the
link. From
http://www.geocities.com/kwanseng/weight.html#forks

Thanks for this.

You're welcome!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

==============================================

A standard 1 inch steel steerer weighs 0.89 grams per millimeter.

I get 1.1 g / mm on this steering tube:

Outer diameter, R: 1.00" = 0.0254 m
Inner diameter, r: 0.85" = 0.02159 m
density of steel: 7850 kg/m^3
Volume of 0.001 m of steering tube: (R^2-r^2) / 4 * PI * 0.001 m
= 0.1406 e-6 m^3
mass of 0.001 m of steering tube: 0.001104 kg

What's the ID? Aren't standard quill stems 22.2mm OD? Not sure how much
clearance there may be.

What _is_ the ID? Inner diameter? I do not know what is
standard. Measured the inner diameter of a threaded
steering tube and got 0.86 inch = 21.8 mm.

--
Michael Press

Michael Press said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] quoted:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> ==============================================
> A standard 1 inch steel steerer weighs 0.89 grams per millimeter.

I get 1.1 g / mm on this steering tube:

Outer diameter, R: 1.00" = 0.0254 m
Inner diameter, r: 0.85" = 0.02159 m
density of steel: 7850 kg/m^3
Volume of 0.001 m of steering tube: (R^2-r^2) / 4 * PI * 0.001 m
= 0.1406 e-6 m^3
mass of 0.001 m of steering tube: 0.001104 kg

What's the ID? Aren't standard quill stems 22.2mm OD? Not sure how much
clearance there may be.

What _is_ the ID? Inner diameter? I do not know what is
standard. Measured the inner diameter of a threaded
steering tube and got 0.86 inch = 21.8 mm.

--
Michael Press

Ah, that explains it. My fork takes a 22.2 stem.