Discovery in disarray.... ?

wolfix said:

A Belgian helping another Belgian while helping himself....... It is bike racing from the past...... Hoste will be asking QS for a contract next year....

Actually, this is the way it has always been done. If things really go sour between Hoste and Hincapie (childish 'I would have won if you did not sprint' discussions 🙄 ) then I really doubt Hoste will have any trouble finding someone else to hire him.

Come on. DS is a team, now without their most representative rider, which has never been a huge classics player. They are trying to recycle themselves into that given that their chances at the Tour are limited, but they do not rule the peloton in the classics.

WBT, if Discovery are in disarray and are still doing so well in races then I guess they will want to stay in disarray all season, because they are getting good results. Fine they aren't as strong as QS for the classics, but then QS is a classics team. At the moment it seems that Discovery are the second strongest classics outfit in the peloton (although they have just lost one, maybe two riders to injury). If Discovery are in Disarray so is every other team in the peloton except QS.

Eldrack said:

At the moment it seems that Discovery are the second strongest classics outfit in the peloton (although they have just lost one, maybe two riders to injury). If Discovery are in Disarray so is every other team in the peloton except QS.

Huh ? Discovery are the second strongest classic outfit ? Based upon what ? One race ? Didn't seem them up the front in MSR or score any results ?

We still have a lot of races to go.... lets see how they do on Wednesday in GW and in PR......

Funny how you guys get stuck into Ullrich for finishing 2nd all the time and now that Discovery get one 2nd its the best result since sliced bread !

The fact is Discovery didn't win and the designated leader was attacked by his own team-mate means disarray.

whiteboytrash said:

Huh ? Discovery are the second strongest classic outfit ? Based upon what ? One race ? Didn't seem them up the front in MSR or score any results ?

We still have a lot of races to go.... lets see how they do on Wednesday in GW and in PR......

Funny how you guys get stuck into Ullrich for finishing 2nd all the time and now that Discovery get one 2nd its the best result since sliced bread !

The fact is Discovery didn't win and the designated leader was attacked by his own team-mate means disarray.

They are leading the UCI ProTour. And they are a team with an excellent chance at PR. They have the riders. They are not QS, but neither is anyone else in the races of the north.

But Discovery/USPS have never won a big one - and it's not for want of trying. Sure, they throw massive firepower at races like 3 Days of De Panne - and who else was there? Mainly the Continental teams...when it matters, they don't/can't win....

micron said:

But Discovery/USPS have never won a big one - and it's not for want of trying. Sure, they throw massive firepower at races like 3 Days of De Panne - and who else was there? Mainly the Continental teams...when it matters, they don't/can't win....

agreed....if only they held onto Bonnen. Where was the succession planning ? Another mistake by Discovery/USPS.

But if they'd held on to Boonen nothing would have changed - except he would be the frustrated Hoste figure, going on the attack because his team leader hasn't got the tactical nous (or balls) - Tommeke did exactly the right thing and got out when he realised that the opportunities for development - and wins - were going to be nil.

The 'all for one' strategy is fine for a 3 week race - it simply isn't flexible enough for a one day Classic where, literally, anything can happen and lost ground can't be recouped on another stage. Unfortunately, Disco/USPS seem never to have grasped this (despite what they say) and are always looking for the big wins for Hincapie and no one but Hincapie - a huge mistake. Sorry, but Hincapie should stick to what he does best - he's a good superdom but no leader.

[font=Arial][/font]

[font=Verdana]That’s a good point... if Bonnen stayed he would be as tactically woeful as Hincapie... good of him to leave ! [/font]

micron said:

But if they'd held on to Boonen nothing would have changed - except he would be the frustrated Hoste figure, going on the attack because his team leader hasn't got the tactical nous (or balls) - Tommeke did exactly the right thing and got out when he realised that the opportunities for development - and wins - were going to be nil.

The 'all for one' strategy is fine for a 3 week race - it simply isn't flexible enough for a one day Classic where, literally, anything can happen and lost ground can't be recouped on another stage. Unfortunately, Disco/USPS seem never to have grasped this (despite what they say) and are always looking for the big wins for Hincapie and no one but Hincapie - a huge mistake. Sorry, but Hincapie should stick to what he does best - he's a good superdom but no leader.

whiteboytrash said:

Huh ? Discovery are the second strongest classic outfit ? Based upon what ? One race ? Didn't seem them up the front in MSR or score any results ?

We still have a lot of races to go.... lets see how they do on Wednesday in GW and in PR......

Funny how you guys get stuck into Ullrich for finishing 2nd all the time and now that Discovery get one 2nd its the best result since sliced bread !

The fact is Discovery didn't win and the designated leader was attacked by his own team-mate means disarray.

Boonen is the one who said that, besides QS, that Disco had the strongest team.

Disarray? The team bought Hoste, but who could have predicted that he would go against the team plan? Yes, that is some degree of disarray but not on a team level, on a lone ranger level.

Hincapie can not do anything if Belgians on different teams are gonna work together the way Hoste and Boonen did. They rode as if they were in the worlds, geez.

Bruyneel never deals with the classics because Demol is on point for that. I think Demol and the boys will be getting calls from the boss as to how to ride the race. Recall, George is on the form of his life extending from last year to now: 2nd place P-R, 2 stages Dauphine, Queen stage TdF, 2 stages Td California.

He physically and mentally is on another new level. He was the only one in that last pack at Flanders who had any capacity to either gap Boonen on a climb or outsprint him. It was a grave mistake for Hoste to go against the plan.

This is not so unsual for Disco or QS to have several riders who could podium. Hoste is strong, no debate there. But to attack solo against your team leader. Thats just wrong. And you cant say Hoste wouldnt have thought Boonen would go with him but he'd get marked by Bettini.
Hoste had just won 3 Day os dePanne, he would be one of the top marked riders that Boonen would never get away.

My own theory is that Boonen and Hoste attacked as a plan.

I just read on the Pez site that Boonen and Hoste was motorpaced by the Belgian press to gain the largest part of their gap off the front.

Pez......

"It wouldn't be a Belgian Classic though without a little motorpacing session from the press crew, right? When Boonen and Hoste made their move, Karsten Kroon of CSC, was hot on their tale and very nearly made the juncture to the two leaders, but somewhere along the way, the break went turbo. Fabian Cancellara commented on this phenomenon, which might have had to do with the fact that Karsten Kroon blew sky high, but who's counting:

“For a long time the gap stayed at 10 or 15 seconds, then, in the space of two kilometres, they gained a minute. It’s a shame for cycling and for my team-mate Kroon because without them he would have got back up to the leaders.”

Lampre Director Saronni was also unhappy, as ProCycling quotes the DS: “We’re always asked to be more professional, but bad habits persist, and it appears that prejudice has been shown to Boonen "

It gets annoying all of you who haven't seen the race or any footage of the race to try and comment on it like you have seen it...... give up.

wolfix said:

I just read on the Pez site that Boonen and Hoste was motorpaced by the Belgian press to gain the largest part of their gap off the front.

Pez......

"It wouldn't be a Belgian Classic though without a little motorpacing session from the press crew, right? When Boonen and Hoste made their move, Karsten Kroon of CSC, was hot on their tale and very nearly made the juncture to the two leaders, but somewhere along the way, the break went turbo. Fabian Cancellara commented on this phenomenon, which might have had to do with the fact that Karsten Kroon blew sky high, but who's counting:

“For a long time the gap stayed at 10 or 15 seconds, then, in the space of two kilometres, they gained a minute. It’s a shame for cycling and for my team-mate Kroon because without them he would have got back up to the leaders.”

Lampre Director Saronni was also unhappy, as ProCycling quotes the DS: “We’re always asked to be more professional, but bad habits persist, and it appears that prejudice has been shown to Boonen "

whiteboytrash said:

It gets annoying all of you who haven't seen the race or any footage of the race to try and comment on it like you have seen it...... give up.

And you saw every kilo of the race? Go back and look at the time splits .....They gained a minute in less then 4 kilos......

You're right Hincapie would of won if Boonen and Hoste didn't cheat. Happy now ?

wolfix said:

And you saw every kilo of the race? Go back and look at the time splits .....They gained a minute in less then 4 kilos......

whiteboytrash said:

You're right Hincapie would of won if Boonen and Hoste didn't cheat. Happy now ?

It was Karsten Kroon and the CSC DS who saw the motopacing...otherwise Kroon would have made the split.
But here's what Boonen said:
"I saw the DUTCHMAN coming up and I decided to drop him."
Nothing like some blind nationalistic pride influencing the race.

That is my point.
The Belgian press towed the two Belgian escapees away.
The Belgian World Champion saw a Dutch rider cming across then went to the front and dropped the hammer so two Belgians would get away.
A Belgina rider, Hoste, secretly attacked his American team leader so the two Belgians could get away.
Like I said, it was more of the same from the Belgians.

The motopacing also happened in MSR if you recall, the Italian press towing the Italian break away.

oh my god - cycling is just one huge anti-American conspiracy!!!!! And Disco have never profitted from other teams riding for them for example so that a break doesn't succeed? Riis never passed that note to Bruyneel and half the Lotto team never paced Il Falco to keep him in contention on the last tough Giro stage?

This is sour grapes and you should all know it - but suggesting that QSI riders can't win without being paced by press cars is pathetic.

BTW Boonen didn't say Disco were the second strongest team - he said Hoste was the second strongest rider - considering that Hoste said that he was surprised that his team weren't stronger, it's a big extrapolation to make.

Clearly none of you saw Boonen rip up the Koppenberg and the couple of climbs before that. And riders like PVP acknowledged Hoste's attack to be too strong for them. The 2 best riders in the race got away in the finale, end of story and the rest simply weren't good enough (and had Bettini sitting on them for good measure).

whiteboytrash said:

[font=Verdana]There has been a rule change where the rainbow jersey takes precedence over the ProTour jersey so fear not big Tom will be wearing the rainbow bands at PR and beyond. [/font][font=Verdana][/font]

From the ProTour site:

Boonen is the current road race World Champion and so will wear a special combined white UCI ProTour and rainbow jersey in Wednesday’s Gent-Wevelgem race, the next one-day race event on the season-long UCI ProTour calendar.

hombredesubaru said:

Boonen is the one who said that, besides QS, that Disco had the strongest team.

Disarray? The team bought Hoste, but who could have predicted that he would go against the team plan? Yes, that is some degree of disarray but not on a team level, on a lone ranger level.

Looks like there are two lone rangers so - Danielson and Hoste!

DC are unorganised.

hombredesubaru said:

It was Karsten Kroon and the CSC DS who saw the motopacing...otherwise Kroon would have made the split.
But here's what Boonen said:
"I saw the DUTCHMAN coming up and I decided to drop him."
Nothing like some blind nationalistic pride influencing the race.

That is my point.
The Belgian press towed the two Belgian escapees away.
The Belgian World Champion saw a Dutch rider cming across then went to the front and dropped the hammer so two Belgians would get away.
A Belgina rider, Hoste, secretly attacked his American team leader so the two Belgians could get away.
Like I said, it was more of the same from the Belgians.

The motopacing also happened in MSR if you recall, the Italian press towing the Italian break away.

You're starting to sound like some sort of fruitcake.
You've conspiracy theories about every single European : it is inconceivable that Boonen and Hoste would have become an alliance.
It's balderdash.

It was DC that were trying to form alliamces prior to RVV : they even sounded PVP out.

You can accuse Boonen/Hoste of an alliance and then disregard DC wanting an alliance with a dreaded European.
Give it up - you're sounding ridiculous.

hombredesubaru said:

The motopacing also happened in MSR if you recall, the Italian press towing the Italian break away.

Er no, you haven't seen the race... In MSR the cameraman was shoed away by a Spanish rider because he was to close to the Italian chase group of Milram.... get your facts right. How can you make an informed assessment if you haven't seen the race ? Breakaway indeed.....

micron said:

BTW Boonen didn't say Disco were the second strongest team - he said Hoste was the second strongest rider - considering that Hoste said that he was surprised that his team weren't stronger, it's a big extrapolation to make.

Oh yes he did. He said quite clearly that they were the second strongest team. We don't all get to hear the same interviews so saying somebody didn't say something is risky.

He did emphasize that there was a big gap between QSI and DSC.