"Sensitive matter"

Wound Up said:

Hello Group

I'm back training on my road bike, and I again find myself dealing with
an uncomfortable problem. I wear regular bike shorts, sans undershorts,
and I get, well, sort of rubbed numb in a very unfortunate spot. It's
just not good. I adjust my shorts constantly it seems, to no avail.

Are there lycra undershorts I should get? What do you wear? I remember
this from last year, but not from the last time I trained, which was 9
years before that. I think it may have to do with the extra poundage
I'm carrying, but whatever the cause of the problem, it's got to be
rectified. Your maturity in responding is appreciated.

TIA

--
Wound Up

There was a thread recently on shorts, chamois, comfort, etc. that I
thought was pretty good. Here it is:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/browse_frm/thread/73a362ffb070f997/79d447a3579ef43d?q=Performance+Ultra+Shorts+or+Ultra+Bib+Shorts-opinions&rnum=1#79d447a3579ef43d
or
http://tinyurl.com/fns3j

If you don't want details, skip this next part. :-)

The main thing I find uncomfortable on a pretty regular basis (various
different shorts) is the seams some modern chamois have. Specifically
the two symetrical seams on either side of the perineum. There's a
tendon that goes from the leg to the body and just behind that I get a
particular tender spot in the crease where my leg joins my body. That's
where many chamois have a seam, and I'm guessing the seam is related to
the chafing since my seamless chamois don't seem to have it as bad.

So I look for shorts that have a seamless chamois. Gotta be careful
though -- some web site copy says seamless but the chamois still has
seams. Something like "seamless main seating surface" or something like
that.

Of course there are other potential sources of discomfort too, but
anyway I hope this helps.

Wound Up said:

Hello Group

I'm back training on my road bike, and I again find myself dealing
with an uncomfortable problem. I wear regular bike shorts, sans
undershorts, and I get, well, sort of rubbed numb in a very
unfortunate spot. It's just not good. I adjust my shorts constantly
it seems, to no avail.
Are there lycra undershorts I should get? What do you wear? I
remember this from last year, but not from the last time I trained,
which was 9 years before that. I think it may have to do with the
extra poundage I'm carrying, but whatever the cause of the problem,
it's got to be rectified. Your maturity in responding is appreciated.

You, of all people, should avoid the term "rectified".

Bill "50 going on...12?" S.

Quoted message said:

Wound Up said:

Hello Group

I'm back training on my road bike, and I again find myself dealing with
an uncomfortable problem. I wear regular bike shorts, sans undershorts,
and I get, well, sort of rubbed numb in a very unfortunate spot. It's
just not good. I adjust my shorts constantly it seems, to no avail.

Are there lycra undershorts I should get? What do you wear? I remember
this from last year, but not from the last time I trained, which was 9
years before that. I think it may have to do with the extra poundage
I'm carrying, but whatever the cause of the problem, it's got to be
rectified. Your maturity in responding is appreciated.

TIA

--
Wound Up

There was a thread recently on shorts, chamois, comfort, etc. that I
thought was pretty good. Here it is:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/browse_frm/thread/73a362ffb070f997/79d447a3579ef43d?q=Performance+Ultra+Shorts+or+Ultra+Bib+Shorts-opinions&rnum=1#79d447a3579ef43d
or
http://tinyurl.com/fns3j

Cool, thanks! Good thread. I will have to re-read it and do some more
investigating. Great info...

Quoted message said:

If you don't want details, skip this next part. :-)

The main thing I find uncomfortable on a pretty regular basis (various
different shorts) is the seams some modern chamois have. Specifically
the two symetrical seams on either side of the perineum. There's a
tendon that goes from the leg to the body and just behind that I get a
particular tender spot in the crease where my leg joins my body. That's
where many chamois have a seam, and I'm guessing the seam is related to
the chafing since my seamless chamois don't seem to have it as bad.

Hmm... yeah, I know what you mean. I just have lycra (old, small?) with
that front-to-back pad. This might be the source of the problem.

Quoted message said:

So I look for shorts that have a seamless chamois. Gotta be careful
though -- some web site copy says seamless but the chamois still has
seams. Something like "seamless main seating surface" or something like
that.

Of course there are other potential sources of discomfort too, but
anyway I hope this helps.

Thanks. I will definitely look into these, I definitely have been
riding in uncomfortable old shorts, and shoes. I have to be comfortable
to build up to that century I have in my mind as a goal this year.

But how do I phrase this? I really don't mean to give TMI but surely
this has been experienced before. The main problem is that my
forwardmost regions that are atop the saddle get chafed (by the lycra it
seems), and the padded part sort of slides down. It's not good. It's
actually pretty painful after an hour or so. Would good seamless shorts
like the ones you recommend, and the ones discussed help solve this
problem as well?

--
Wound Up

Wound Up said:

Hello Group

I'm back training on my road bike, and I again find myself dealing with
an uncomfortable problem. I wear regular bike shorts, sans undershorts,
and I get, well, sort of rubbed numb in a very unfortunate spot. It's
just not good. I adjust my shorts constantly it seems, to no avail.

Are there lycra undershorts I should get? What do you wear? I remember
this from last year, but not from the last time I trained, which was 9
years before that. I think it may have to do with the extra poundage
I'm carrying, but whatever the cause of the problem, it's got to be
rectified. Your maturity in responding is appreciated.

Adjusting your seat position, and/or possibly finding a seat with a
central cutout, may be more effective than trying to cure it with
clothing. I'd try tilting the seat just a slight bit farther down in
front as a starting point.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Wound Up said:

But how do I phrase this? I really don't mean to give TMI but surely
this has been experienced before. The main problem is that my
forwardmost regions that are atop the saddle get chafed (by the lycra it
seems), and the padded part sort of slides down. It's not good. It's
actually pretty painful after an hour or so. Would good seamless shorts
like the ones you recommend, and the ones discussed help solve this
problem as well?

Ah! The familiar problem. Yes, the other suggestion is good, but
just in case...

http://www.wintersilks.com/viewproduct.aspx?BRANCH=2~17~&ProductDisplayID=91&dept=Mens-silk+underwear&prod=021+silk+sport+brief

alias

http://tinyurl.com/js9am

Silk.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Wound Up said:

Hello Group

I'm back training on my road bike, and I again find myself dealing with
an uncomfortable problem. I wear regular bike shorts, sans undershorts,
and I get, well, sort of rubbed numb in a very unfortunate spot. It's
just not good. I adjust my shorts constantly it seems, to no avail.

I had a similar experience last year, on the first day (140 km) of my
annual bike week. I was wearing a newish pair of shorts that were a
size too large - I hadn't noticed a large was on a medium hanger until
I'd worn them. They were comfy around the waist, but hellacious below.

I put them aside for the rest of the trip. And come to think of it -
since.

Tight shorts are good. So is a balm like Butt Buttr or Bag Balm or Dr.
Ferricass' Lite Delight for Bikin' Tights.

Sorni said:

Wound Up said:

Hello Group

I'm back training on my road bike, and I again find myself dealing
with an uncomfortable problem. I wear regular bike shorts, sans
undershorts, and I get, well, sort of rubbed numb in a very
unfortunate spot. It's just not good. I adjust my shorts constantly
it seems, to no avail.
Are there lycra undershorts I should get? What do you wear? I
remember this from last year, but not from the last time I trained,
which was 9 years before that. I think it may have to do with the
extra poundage I'm carrying, but whatever the cause of the problem,
it's got to be rectified. Your maturity in responding is appreciated.

You, of all people, should avoid the term "rectified".

Whoops. DAMN

Quoted message said:

Bill "50 going on...12?" S.

--
Wound Up
ThunderSnake #65

AHPBBFM pages: http://tinyurl.com/9yulk

Werehatrack said:

Wound Up said:

But how do I phrase this? I really don't mean to give TMI but surely
this has been experienced before. The main problem is that my
forwardmost regions that are atop the saddle get chafed (by the lycra it
seems), and the padded part sort of slides down. It's not good. It's
actually pretty painful after an hour or so. Would good seamless shorts
like the ones you recommend, and the ones discussed help solve this
problem as well?

Ah! The familiar problem. Yes, the other suggestion is good, but
just in case...

http://www.wintersilks.com/viewproduct.aspx?BRANCH=2~17~&ProductDisplayID=91&dept=Mens-silk+underwear&prod=021+silk+sport+brief

alias

http://tinyurl.com/js9am

Silk.

DING DING DING!!!! Finger on nose. Thank you, my good man! I have a
new item to add to my shopping list.

My saddle is in a good position... many tweaks, very minor saddle
soreness after first two good rides this year. I think this ought to do
it, along with the others. Seamless shorts sound very good.

Thanks all! Great group, every time I visit. Maybe it's all the
dopamines from working out =)

--
Wound Up

Sorni said:

Wound Up said:

Hello Group

I'm back training on my road bike, and I again find myself dealing
with an uncomfortable problem. I wear regular bike shorts, sans
undershorts, and I get, well, sort of rubbed numb in a very
unfortunate spot. It's just not good. I adjust my shorts constantly
it seems, to no avail.
Are there lycra undershorts I should get? What do you wear? I
remember this from last year, but not from the last time I trained,
which was 9 years before that. I think it may have to do with the
extra poundage I'm carrying, but whatever the cause of the problem,
it's got to be rectified. Your maturity in responding is
appreciated.

You, of all people, should avoid the term "rectified".

Bill "50 going on...12?" S.

[censored]! *giggle*

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

Wound Up said:

I have to be comfortable
to build up to that century I have in my mind as a goal this year.

Amen! A century with painful nether regions is like torture.

Quoted message said:

But how do I phrase this? I really don't mean to give TMI but surely
this has been experienced before. The main problem is that my
forwardmost regions that are atop the saddle get chafed (by the lycra it
seems),

Not *positive* I understand what you're saying, but I think I'm getting
the drift. I find a snug-fitting pair of shorts preferable for support.
For me sug is better, since then the fabric seems to stay with the skin
more than not. On the other hand, a looser fit in the forward part of
the crotch seems to allow my skin and short to move independently,
which I would call chafing. So I look for a snug fit, and here too
there's a "watch out!" clause: the lycra fabric has to be stretchy
enough for a snug fit to not become a binding fit. So I try on the
shorts and bend and flex this way and that watching to see if the
fabric bunches up in the crotch (that's bad) or tugs through the valley
between leg and body (also bad). A good fabric has lots of stretch, yet
recovers without as much bunching. That's what I'm after in the fabric
anyway.

Canari's Matrix Lyte short is pretty close in most respects: seamless
chamois, stretchy fabric.
http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=137&subcategory=1208&brand=&sku=7436&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=
or http://tinyurl.com/zjaav Of course shorts change so fast these
days it may be different by the time a persone buys it. :-(

Quoted message said:

and the padded part sort of slides down. It's not good. It's
actually pretty painful after an hour or so.

Again, I'm guessing at what you're describing, but I think you're
saying the crotch of the shorts falls away from your own crotch? May be
the shorts are too loose, or have too high a rise. I try to wear the
waist fairly high on my body to keep the chamois in contact with me.
Sorry if I'm not getting what you're saying, but anyway that's
something to consider as well.

Quoted message said:

Would good seamless shorts
like the ones you recommend, and the ones discussed help solve this
problem as well?

When I buy shorts, I look for:
1. A seamless chamois (not the shorts themselves, but in my dreams
they'd be seamless too!)
2. Stretchy lycra fabric for good suport and flexibility
3. High enough rise that the waist stays up (keeping the crotch up as
well)
4. No "seam intersection bump" in the lycra under the middle of the
chamois. (Some shorts have no inseam, just the center seam, or are
flat-sewn. Both reduce the seam intersection bump.)
5. I have to pick the right size. Depending on brand, I wear anyhting
fomr a medium up to XL.

Other features aren't as critical to me, such as leg length, type of
leg gripper (or covered elastic leg openings), color, etc.

Hope this helps. Being relatively comfortable makes riding a lot more
enjoyable!

Forgot to add that Louis Garneau makes some nice shorts, too.
Especially ones with their "Ergo MC" chamois, and those aren't the
expensive ones.

Here's a list of shorts with seamless chamois I made just now. I used
Nashbar because they sometimes have a photo of the chamois, and becuase
their return polisy lets me try the shorts and return them if I want.
No doubt there are other good shorts out there. Of course, everyone's
different and personal preference trumps the free advice you get here.
;-)

Louis Garneau Splice Short. I've also seen a simila all-black version
elsewhere.
http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=137&subcategory=1208&brand=&sku=13890&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=
or http://tinyurl.com/q622k

Nashbar Chrono Splice Road Short
http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=137&subcategory=1208&brand=&sku=11099&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=
or http://tinyurl.com/p67rn

Nashbar Men's Bib Short. Even has a great photo of the seamless
chamois.
http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=137&subcategory=1208&brand=&sku=13545&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=
or http://tinyurl.com/oold6

Nashbar Crossroad Short. This one has the same seamless chamois, and
also flatlock stitching to eliminate the "seam intersection bump".
http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=137&subcategory=1208&brand=&sku=13762&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=
or http://tinyurl.com/7js2e

No doubth there are others.

Wound Up said:

Hello Group

I'm back training on my road bike, and I again find myself dealing with
an uncomfortable problem. I wear regular bike shorts, sans undershorts,
and I get, well, sort of rubbed numb in a very unfortunate spot. It's
just not good. I adjust my shorts constantly it seems, to no avail.

Are there lycra undershorts I should get? What do you wear? I remember
this from last year, but not from the last time I trained, which was 9
years before that. I think it may have to do with the extra poundage
I'm carrying, but whatever the cause of the problem, it's got to be
rectified. Your maturity in responding is appreciated.

TIA

--
Wound Up

Most of the 'sleepy winky' probalems we encounter result from bike fit,
not eqipment, including bike shorts or bibs. have you had a good one/
That looks ate where yer butt bones are?

Wound Up said:

Hello Group

I'm back training on my road bike, and I again find myself dealing with
an uncomfortable problem. I wear regular bike shorts, sans undershorts,
and I get, well, sort of rubbed numb in a very unfortunate spot. It's
just not good. I adjust my shorts constantly it seems, to no avail.

Are there lycra undershorts I should get? What do you wear? I remember
this from last year, but not from the last time I trained, which was 9
years before that. I think it may have to do with the extra poundage
I'm carrying, but whatever the cause of the problem, it's got to be
rectified. Your maturity in responding is appreciated.

Try a pair of unpadded lycra shorts over the top of them. Lycra sliding
over lycra is better than lycra (or chamois) sliding over skin.

Wound Up said:

The main problem is that my
forwardmost regions that are atop the saddle get chafed (by the lycra it
seems), and the padded part sort of slides down.

I'm not positive I understand your problem, but I'll have a go anyway.
Have you tried bib shorts? The bibs should prevent the padded part from
sliding down. The bibs also help hold Fred & Barney in place, up off the
saddle.

--
Dave
dvt at psu dot edu

"Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Wound Up said:

Hello Group

I'm back training on my road bike, and I again find myself dealing
with
an uncomfortable problem. I wear regular bike shorts, sans
undershorts,
and I get, well, sort of rubbed numb in a very unfortunate spot.
It's
just not good. I adjust my shorts constantly it seems, to no
avail.

Are there lycra undershorts I should get? What do you wear? I
remember
this from last year, but not from the last time I trained, which
was 9
years before that. I think it may have to do with the extra
poundage
I'm carrying, but whatever the cause of the problem, it's got to be
rectified. Your maturity in responding is appreciated.

TIA

--
Wound Up

Most of the 'sleepy winky' probalems we encounter result from bike
fit,
not eqipment, including bike shorts or bibs. have you had a good
one/
That looks ate where yer butt bones are?

Dear Pete,

what kind of fitting process is "a good one that looks at where yer
butt bones are?"
I'd like that.

Ken

Per Road Man:

Quoted message said:

what kind of fitting process is "a good one that looks at where yer
butt bones are?"
I'd like that.

Basically, you take an impression.

Got a kitchen countertop? Place a sheet of styrofoam (or cardboard...) on it
at one corner and then sit on it with your legs dangling down. Maybe rock
back-and-forth a little to make the dents deeper.

Then measure the distance between the centers of the dents. I know nothing,
but common sense tells me that distance determines the minimum usable width
you're looking for in a saddle. The distance from outside-to-outside I
consider tb the maximum usable width I'd want in a saddle. When you get to
that, you may be looking at thigh clearance issues.

Doesn't have to be a counter top - it's just that seems tb a more comparable
position. I've done it with plain old 8.5 x 11 paper on a carpet that's the
right density.
--
PeteCresswell

Per (PeteCresswell):

Quoted message said:

one corner and then sit on it with your legs dangling down

With the corner protruding between your legs...
--
PeteCresswell

Thanks, but I thought Qui si parla Campagnolo was talking about a bike
fitting method that looks explicitly at where my sit bones settle on
the saddle.

I did do that at a Specialized dealer, bought a 143 mm Alias, found
inner thigh abrasion, though less sleepiness than with my Brooks Pro.
I did not like the non-slip shape and hardness of the Alias. I traded
it in on a narrower one (135?) which gave less abrasion, but still
hard and sharp-edged. IMHO Specialized is marketing the
best-engineered wooden stick in the industry. Doesn't work for me.

What I do like (aside from the Pro) are a Selle Italia Trans-Am and a
Selle Italia Gel Flow, both old old items purchased $5.00 each at a
swap meet! The Gel is a bit narrower, but both work well OMHB (on my
humble butt). They also allow position changes as easily as on the
Brooks.

Ken

"(PeteCresswell)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Per (PeteCresswell):

Quoted message said:

one corner and then sit on it with your legs dangling down

With the corner protruding between your legs...
--
PeteCresswell

Road Man said:

Thanks, but I thought Qui si parla Campagnolo was talking about a bike
fitting method that looks explicitly at where my sit bones settle on
the saddle.

I did do that at a Specialized dealer, bought a 143 mm Alias, found
inner thigh abrasion, though less sleepiness than with my Brooks Pro.
I did not like the non-slip shape and hardness of the Alias. I traded
it in on a narrower one (135?) which gave less abrasion, but still
hard and sharp-edged. IMHO Specialized is marketing the
best-engineered wooden stick in the industry. Doesn't work for me.

What I do like (aside from the Pro) are a Selle Italia Trans-Am and a
Selle Italia Gel Flow, both old old items purchased $5.00 each at a
swap meet! The Gel is a bit narrower, but both work well OMHB (on my
humble butt). They also allow position changes as easily as on the
Brooks.

Ken

Selle Italia makes Gel Flow in a number of different models, and I
believe Trana-Am was/is the same way. I know you can get a SLR, SLK,
Prolink, and Flite in a Gel Flow version.

The saddle that works best for me, the Basic Prolink, probably
wouldn't work for you, as it is not flat, not allowing multiple
position changes. I love the Basic Prolink, but didn't like the older
Genuine Gel, that had the gel bumps and embroidery. Now they don't
make the Basic, but changed the Genuine Gel. I own three Basics, so
I'll be good for a while.

Have you checked out Selle Italia's website:
http://www.selleitalia.com/

Life is Good!
Jeff