"Sensitive matter"

Werehatrack said:

Adjusting your seat position, and/or possibly finding a seat with a
central cutout, may be more effective than trying to cure it with
clothing. I'd try tilting the seat just a slight bit farther down in
front as a starting point.

I gotta say, for me the problem was solved with the right
choice of shorts. My local Performance shop was willing to
take back shorts that rubbed me the wrong way, and I pretty
quickly settled on Pearl Izumi Ultrasensors as the ideal
shorts for my anatomy.

Larry Coon
University of California

Part of my confusion with S-I is sorting through the alphabet soup,
that website helps a lot.

Ken

"Jeff Starr" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Road Man said:

Thanks, but I thought Qui si parla Campagnolo was talking about a
bike
fitting method that looks explicitly at where my sit bones settle on
the saddle.

I did do that at a Specialized dealer, bought a 143 mm Alias, found
inner thigh abrasion, though less sleepiness than with my Brooks
Pro.
I did not like the non-slip shape and hardness of the Alias. I
traded
it in on a narrower one (135?) which gave less abrasion, but still
hard and sharp-edged. IMHO Specialized is marketing the
best-engineered wooden stick in the industry. Doesn't work for me.

What I do like (aside from the Pro) are a Selle Italia Trans-Am and
a
Selle Italia Gel Flow, both old old items purchased $5.00 each at a
swap meet! The Gel is a bit narrower, but both work well OMHB (on
my
humble butt). They also allow position changes as easily as on the
Brooks.

Ken

Selle Italia makes Gel Flow in a number of different models, and I
believe Trana-Am was/is the same way. I know you can get a SLR, SLK,
Prolink, and Flite in a Gel Flow version.

The saddle that works best for me, the Basic Prolink, probably
wouldn't work for you, as it is not flat, not allowing multiple
position changes. I love the Basic Prolink, but didn't like the
older
Genuine Gel, that had the gel bumps and embroidery. Now they don't
make the Basic, but changed the Genuine Gel. I own three Basics, so
I'll be good for a while.

Have you checked out Selle Italia's website:
http://www.selleitalia.com/

Life is Good!
Jeff

Brian Huntley said:

Wound Up said:

Hello Group

I'm back training on my road bike, and I again find myself dealing with
an uncomfortable problem. I wear regular bike shorts, sans undershorts,
and I get, well, sort of rubbed numb in a very unfortunate spot. It's
just not good. I adjust my shorts constantly it seems, to no avail.

I had a similar experience last year, on the first day (140 km) of my
annual bike week. I was wearing a newish pair of shorts that were a
size too large - I hadn't noticed a large was on a medium hanger until
I'd worn them. They were comfy around the waist, but hellacious below.

I put them aside for the rest of the trip. And come to think of it -
since.

Tight shorts are good. So is a balm like Butt Buttr or Bag Balm or Dr.
Ferricass' Lite Delight for Bikin' Tights.

Butt Buttr sounds like a product one might buy at a shop with black
paint on the outside that says, "novelties, videos and games".
Seriously, though, I can imagine there are times when you would give
your last nickel for some... gotta look into these, as I naturally sweat
a lot, even when in fantastic cardio shape

--
Wound Up
ThunderSnake #65

AHPBBFM pages: http://tinyurl.com/9yulk

Phil said:

Sorni said:

Wound Up said:

Hello Group

I'm back training on my road bike, and I again find myself dealing
with an uncomfortable problem. I wear regular bike shorts, sans
undershorts, and I get, well, sort of rubbed numb in a very
unfortunate spot. It's just not good. I adjust my shorts constantly
it seems, to no avail.
Are there lycra undershorts I should get? What do you wear? I
remember this from last year, but not from the last time I trained,
which was 9 years before that. I think it may have to do with the
extra poundage I'm carrying, but whatever the cause of the problem,
it's got to be rectified. Your maturity in responding is
appreciated.

You, of all people, should avoid the term "rectified".

Bill "50 going on...12?" S.

[censored]! *giggle*

Perfect!!!

--
Wound Up

dvt said:

Wound Up said:

The main problem is that my forwardmost regions that are atop the
saddle get chafed (by the lycra it seems), and the padded part sort of
slides down.

I'm not positive I understand your problem, but I'll have a go anyway.
Have you tried bib shorts? The bibs should prevent the padded part from
sliding down. The bibs also help hold Fred & Barney in place, up off the
saddle.

Both are problems. I should have used euphemisms, that's my problem.
Fred and Barney become numb, sort of cold, and sore after just 20 miles.
My friend's father used to wear bib shorts exclusively. A good
thought. Whatever I get has to be what I wear on my century later in
the year. Completing the century without -too much- pain is all I'm
after this time.

--
Wound Up

Road Man said:

"Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Wound Up said:

Hello Group

I'm back training on my road bike, and I again find myself dealing
with
an uncomfortable problem. I wear regular bike shorts, sans
undershorts,
and I get, well, sort of rubbed numb in a very unfortunate spot.
It's
just not good. I adjust my shorts constantly it seems, to no
avail.

Are there lycra undershorts I should get? What do you wear? I
remember
this from last year, but not from the last time I trained, which
was 9
years before that. I think it may have to do with the extra
poundage
I'm carrying, but whatever the cause of the problem, it's got to be
rectified. Your maturity in responding is appreciated.

TIA

--
Wound Up

Most of the 'sleepy winky' probalems we encounter result from bike
fit,
not eqipment, including bike shorts or bibs. have you had a good
one/
That looks ate where yer butt bones are?

Sleepy winky, indeed! I actually didn't have this problem until I put
on the old gel saddle from my touring bike, and fiddled with it. The
hard one was well, too hard. I do find myself forwards on it, so it
might be time for another adjustment to pivot the front upwards.

Quoted message said:

Dear Pete,

what kind of fitting process is "a good one that looks at where yer
butt bones are?"
I'd like that.

I wondered... "ate" as in chewed up? Mine seems to have worn spots
where my glutes rub down, if that answers your question. They are sort
of on the side, in the back ??

Quoted message said:

Ken

--
Wound Up

Zog The Undeniable said:

Wound Up said:

Hello Group

I'm back training on my road bike, and I again find myself dealing
with an uncomfortable problem. I wear regular bike shorts, sans
undershorts, and I get, well, sort of rubbed numb in a very
unfortunate spot. It's just not good. I adjust my shorts constantly
it seems, to no avail.

Are there lycra undershorts I should get? What do you wear? I
remember this from last year, but not from the last time I trained,
which was 9 years before that. I think it may have to do with the
extra poundage I'm carrying, but whatever the cause of the problem,
it's got to be rectified. Your maturity in responding is appreciated.

Try a pair of unpadded lycra shorts over the top of them. Lycra sliding
over lycra is better than lycra (or chamois) sliding over skin.

You know, I asked the local shop about Chamois and seamless shorts, and
they seemed to think I was insane. He said that chamois was what they
used to use, and all their shorts had the typical parenial (sp?) pad
like the too-small lycra shorts I now have.

I know these guys ride, a lot. I'm not saying you guys don't know
anything (how could I) but what is the source of the confusion? Is what
you are recommending, while sounds truly like what I want, only
available from certain vendors, or did I not explain myself properly?

Their warehouse sale is coming up on the 31st. I can score some serious
deals on gear if I know what I'm looking at. Perhaps you guys would be
willing to look at this and give me some ideas?

Many, many TIA are heaped upon your fine group. I am just getting back
into all this after generations of products have undoubtedly just come
and gone...

http://www.touringcyclist.com/

--
Wound Up

Quoted message said:

Wound Up said:

I have to be comfortable
to build up to that century I have in my mind as a goal this year.

Amen! A century with painful nether regions is like torture.

I can only imagine. It is an experience I greatly wish to avoid,
particularly in the 95F/35C, sultry summer climate I surely would find
myself riding this thing in.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

But how do I phrase this? I really don't mean to give TMI but surely
this has been experienced before. The main problem is that my
forwardmost regions that are atop the saddle get chafed (by the lycra it
seems),

Not *positive* I understand what you're saying, but I think I'm getting
the drift. I find a snug-fitting pair of shorts preferable for support.
For me sug is better, since then the fabric seems to stay with the skin
more than not. On the other hand, a looser fit in the forward part of
the crotch seems to allow my skin and short to move independently,
which I would call chafing. So I look for a snug fit, and here too
there's a "watch out!" clause: the lycra fabric has to be stretchy
enough for a snug fit to not become a binding fit. So I try on the
shorts and bend and flex this way and that watching to see if the
fabric bunches up in the crotch (that's bad) or tugs through the valley
between leg and body (also bad). A good fabric has lots of stretch, yet
recovers without as much bunching. That's what I'm after in the fabric
anyway.

Hmm... I may not have the opportunity to try them on. It seems silly to
me that a store that sells clothing has no dressing rooms or policies
about trying stuff on.

Quoted message said:

Canari's Matrix Lyte short is pretty close in most respects: seamless
chamois, stretchy fabric.
http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=137&subcategory=1208&brand=&sku=7436&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=
or http://tinyurl.com/zjaav Of course shorts change so fast these
days it may be different by the time a persone buys it. :-(

These look good. I will add them to my list. I am still wondering
about bib shorts. I feel like they would be cumbersome, but if my butt
wasn't on fire as a result of that, I'd be all for it.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and the padded part sort of slides down. It's not good. It's
actually pretty painful after an hour or so.

Again, I'm guessing at what you're describing, but I think you're
saying the crotch of the shorts falls away from your own crotch? May be
the shorts are too loose, or have too high a rise. I try to wear the
waist fairly high on my body to keep the chamois in contact with me.
Sorry if I'm not getting what you're saying, but anyway that's
something to consider as well.

"Sleepy winky", apparently. As the shorts slide down, although they are
too small (need replacing, too old probably), the winky gets north of
the padded area, and gets chafed by the lycra. Youch. My muscle
soreness is nothing compared to my that chafing. Even 20 miles and I'm
ready to quit and hobble

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Would good seamless shorts
like the ones you recommend, and the ones discussed help solve this
problem as well?

When I buy shorts, I look for:
1. A seamless chamois (not the shorts themselves, but in my dreams
they'd be seamless too!)

I see - the PAD is known as a chamois, because it once was made of
chamois? Please forgive my ignorance. A pad that has no seams in its
main area?

Quoted message said:

2. Stretchy lycra fabric for good suport and flexibility
3. High enough rise that the waist stays up (keeping the crotch up as
well)

Right, definitely my main problem

Quoted message said:

4. No "seam intersection bump" in the lycra under the middle of the
chamois. (Some shorts have no inseam, just the center seam, or are
flat-sewn. Both reduce the seam intersection bump.)

Ah. That sucker is good to remember...

Quoted message said:

5. I have to pick the right size. Depending on brand, I wear anyhting
fomr a medium up to XL.

Other features aren't as critical to me, such as leg length, type of
leg gripper (or covered elastic leg openings), color, etc.

The rest is fine, I'd like them to cover most of my quads and not grip
me too hard at the bottom...

Quoted message said:

Hope this helps. Being relatively comfortable makes riding a lot more
enjoyable!

Yes, it does, thanks. This part (and next, my shoes) are going to be
key to achieving my goals and continuing to stay motivated.

Road biking is the one thing I can just DO and DO and DO and actually
wear myself without knowing it right away. Next is getting my heart
rate monitor working again! It's like meditation - the sounds, the
sensation. I have to get proper equipment to enjoy all of that. It's
just not gonna be cheap. Glad my Trek 1400 is still a very viable bike
to use for training and hugs the road like it does. Also, glad I got
the 16 spd back in 1994 (!!)...

Anyway, thanks very much

--
Wound Up

Wound Up said:

Zog The Undeniable said:

Wound Up said:

Hello Group

I'm back training on my road bike, and I again find myself dealing
with an uncomfortable problem. I wear regular bike shorts, sans
undershorts, and I get, well, sort of rubbed numb in a very
unfortunate spot. It's just not good. I adjust my shorts constantly
it seems, to no avail.

Are there lycra undershorts I should get? What do you wear? I
remember this from last year, but not from the last time I trained,
which was 9 years before that. I think it may have to do with the
extra poundage I'm carrying, but whatever the cause of the problem,
it's got to be rectified. Your maturity in responding is appreciated.

Try a pair of unpadded lycra shorts over the top of them. Lycra
sliding over lycra is better than lycra (or chamois) sliding over skin.

You know, I asked the local shop about Chamois and seamless shorts, and
they seemed to think I was insane. He said that chamois was what they
used to use, and all their shorts had the typical parenial (sp?) pad
like the too-small lycra shorts I now have.

The pads in shorts *used* to be made of various animal hides, called
"Chamois" (dunno what animal it actually was), and the name stuck.

Common usage still today is to refer to that coolmax (or whatever
synthetic) perineal-ish pad in your shorts as a "chamois" even though it
never helped enclose an animal. (Surprising your shop didn't know this.)

So the advice you got probably meant: whatever your shorts-pad is made
of, get one without seams. Most shorts sold in the last few years seem
to fit this description, but then I haven't been looking too hard.
Other posters seem to be pointing in the right direction that fit and
snugness are important.

Good luck,

Mark

The
"Mark Janeba" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Wound Up said:

Zog The Undeniable said:

> You know, I asked the local shop about Chamois and seamless
> shorts, and

they seemed to think I was insane. He said that chamois was what
they used to use, and all their shorts had the typical parenial
(sp?) pad like the too-small lycra shorts I now have.

The pads in shorts *used* to be made of various animal hides, called
"Chamois" (dunno what animal it actually was), and the name stuck.

Common usage still today is to refer to that coolmax (or whatever
synthetic) perineal-ish pad in your shorts as a "chamois" even
though it never helped enclose an animal. (Surprising your shop
didn't know this.)
Mark

The animal was called "chamois." It's a smallish antelope-like
critter. True chamois "pads" have a really nice surface but no
cushioning. Modern chamois in shorts are synthetic, and have
potentially complex cushioning systems, and rarely have seams, at
least in the cheap Performance and REI shorts I use. The short itself
can have seams, but some designs have flatter seams than others. I
like the Performance Century short, and the REI. With a cutout Selle
Italia saddle, my sleepiness and abrasion problems have subsided, at
least in the 25-mile level.

I think the seamless subspecies of chamois became extinct, due to
demand from cyclists ...

Ken

Wound Up said:

Quoted message said:

When I buy shorts, I look for:
1. A seamless chamois (not the shorts themselves, but in my dreams
they'd be seamless too!)

Quoted message said:

I see - the PAD is known as a chamois, because it once was made of
chamois? Please forgive my ignorance. A pad that has no seams in its
main area?

Yes, the pad under the crotch is known as a chamois (shammy). I suppose
they were once made of chamois, but I wasn't into the cycling scene back
in those days.

--
Dave
dvt at psu dot edu

Wound Up said:

dvt said:

Wound Up said:

The main problem is that my forwardmost regions that are atop the
saddle get chafed (by the lycra it seems), and the padded part sort of
slides down.

I'm not positive I understand your problem, but I'll have a go anyway.
Have you tried bib shorts? The bibs should prevent the padded part from
sliding down. The bibs also help hold Fred & Barney in place, up off the
saddle.

Both are problems. I should have used euphemisms, that's my problem.
Fred and Barney become numb, sort of cold, and sore after just 20 miles.
My friend's father used to wear bib shorts exclusively. A good
thought. Whatever I get has to be what I wear on my century later in
the year. Completing the century without -too much- pain is all I'm
after this time.

I'll also recommend bibs. They don't creep up or down and especially more
comfortable for clydesdales like myself. I've got a pair of inexpensive
Bergamo's that have been great for me.

Ron

RonSonic said:

I'll also recommend bibs. They don't creep up or down and especially more
comfortable for clydesdales like myself. I've got a pair of inexpensive
Bergamo's that have been great for me.

I like the cheapest Nashbar bib shorts, SKU NA-BIB5. My experience with
various bib shorts is quite limited, so there might be something better
out there.

I normally like to support my LBS. I'd buy these shorts from the LBS,
even if they cost a little more. But the LBS only sells the high-zoot
stuff at 2-4x the cost, and I just can't justify that expense.

--
Dave
dvt at psu dot edu

In article <[email hidden]>,

Mark Janeba said:

Wound Up said:

Zog The Undeniable said:

Wound Up wrote:

> Hello Group
>
> I'm back training on my road bike, and I again find myself dealing
> with an uncomfortable problem. I wear regular bike shorts, sans
> undershorts, and I get, well, sort of rubbed numb in a very
> unfortunate spot. It's just not good. I adjust my shorts constantly
> it seems, to no avail.
>
> Are there lycra undershorts I should get? What do you wear? I
> remember this from last year, but not from the last time I trained,
> which was 9 years before that. I think it may have to do with the
> extra poundage I'm carrying, but whatever the cause of the problem,
> it's got to be rectified. Your maturity in responding is appreciated.

Try a pair of unpadded lycra shorts over the top of them. Lycra
sliding over lycra is better than lycra (or chamois) sliding over skin.

You know, I asked the local shop about Chamois and seamless shorts, and
they seemed to think I was insane. He said that chamois was what they
used to use, and all their shorts had the typical parenial (sp?) pad
like the too-small lycra shorts I now have.

The pads in shorts *used* to be made of various animal hides, called
"Chamois" (dunno what animal it actually was), and the name stuck.

Neither antelope, nor goat, nor goral.

Quoted message said:

The Chamois is a goat like animal, but it belongs in its own genus and is
more closely related to the Goral than to the goats. The Chamois is superbly
adapted to the mountains having particulaly soft hooves which help it to
grasp to the rocks on the mountains where it lives. It also has large dew
claws which help it to clasp to slopes when decending. Chamois are very
distinctive animals. The summer coat is a pale brown colour, and the winter
coat is a much darker brown. The winter coat is much thicker. The most
distinctive feature of Chamois is thier black and white face markings. Both
sexes possess horns which curve backwards. The males horns are much thicker
and more curved than the females.

Quoted message said:

Chamois can consume many plants whcih are poisnous to man, such as yew,
foxglove and deadly nightshade, but they avoid nettles and ferns.

Quoted message said:

It is thought the Chamois are originally an east asian species which split
into the different sub-species during the ice age and pleistocene.

--
Michael Press

Wound Up said:

You know, I asked the local shop about Chamois and seamless shorts, and
they seemed to think I was insane. He said that chamois was what they
used to use, and all their shorts had the typical parenial (sp?) pad
like the too-small lycra shorts I now have.

As others have said, in the past the term "chamois" refered to the skin
of a chamois (formerly used in the crotch of cycling shorts), but the
term has held on in cycling clothing to mean any
liner/insert/pad/bottom/base/fondello lining the inside of the shorts.

I've never seen seamless cycling shorts; I've been talking about my
favorite seamless *chamois* (whether it's made for the skin of a
chamois animal or a modern synthetic).

Quoted message said:

I know these guys ride, a lot.

That's good -- maybe they can recommend shorts, saddle, position, etc.

Quoted message said:

what is the source of the confusion? Is what
you are recommending, while sounds truly like what I want, only
available from certain vendors, or did I not explain myself properly?

Both! :-)

Quoted message said:

Their warehouse sale is coming up on the 31st. I can score some serious
deals on gear if I know what I'm looking at. Perhaps you guys would be
willing to look at this and give me some ideas?
http://www.touringcyclist.com/

I see Bellwether and Trico. I wouldn't consider the baggy shorts (but
maybe others would).

Among the Bellwethers, the "911 O2 men's 6-panel lycra shorts $40.00"
claim to have a "C-tex chamois". I googled "C-tex chamois" and found
it's hard to know if the chamois is seamless.

See:
http://www.teamestrogen.com/reference/noteDetails.asp?ID=c-tex%20chamois

The photo shows two "baseball" seams running the length of the chamois
even though the text says: "molded design eliminates unwanted seams".
Of course, that's a women's short, so don't know what's in the men's
version you might be considering. Often men's and women's shorts share
the same chamois design.

Couple other terms from your shop's site:

"Modified 8-panel" is how shorts with no inseam are often described.
That's a good feature, if that's how Bellweather uses the phrase: a
modified 8-panel short eliminates the leg inseam, and along with it the
uncomfortable "seam bump" in the middle of the seat.

"MVT CHAMOIS" sounds worth considering. Again, the below link is from
Team Estrogen (a women's clothing site), but possible the same chamois
is used in the men's shorts:

"MVT CHAMOIS

The Molded Variable Technology (MVT) chamois maximizes comfort with
welded technology which eliminates all seams while allowing the pad to
contour to the body by varying the pad thickness in critical areas.

- 4-way stretch design molds and contours with the body movement to
eliminate chafing and friction
- ergonomic variable pad thickness in key comfort zones
- seamless construction helps reduce possible hot spots
- welded technology creates channels to reduce friction
- internal shock absorbing foam
- supple hydrophobic and anti-microbial face offers quick moisture
transfer"

From
http://www.teamestrogen.com/reference/noteDetails.asp?ID=mvt%20chamois

Enjoy!

Wound Up said:

Hmm... I may not have the opportunity to try them on. It seems silly to
me that a store that sells clothing has no dressing rooms or policies
about trying stuff on.

The shop I used to work at had no dressing room, but customers used the
bathroom to try on clothes. It was no big deal, the expected way to try
stuff on.

Quoted message said:

These [Canari Matrix Lyte] look good. I will add them to my list.

Speaking of lists, I had a long list of potential shorts. I bought
about twenty different brands and models, and returned most. I'm
talking a few thousand dollars here(!). I got tham lined up side by
side and tried them all on. Kind of a head-to-head elimination if you
will.

Quoted message said:

I am still wondering
about bib shorts. I feel like they would be cumbersome,

They can be more comfortable than a bad waistband, and I like them for
short rides (less than an hour or so) but on linger rides I like to use
the bathroom without taking off my jersey. And a good fitting waistband
isn't that bad.

Quoted message said:

"Sleepy winky", apparently.

I think sleepy winkie may refer to numbness? I'm no doctor, but I'm
guessing numbness is a sign of a compressed ... nerve? Blood vessel?
Numbness is different from chafing I'd say, though a person might have
both (or just one, or just the other). Not sure how to cure numbness,
except to relieve the pressure somehow, by getting a softer (or firmer)
seat, or tilting the seat up (or down), or lowering the seat (so you
can sit farther back, on the sit bones), or ...something else... Sorry,
not much experience here on numbness.

But chafing...

Quoted message said:

As the shorts slide down, although they are
too small (need replacing, too old probably), the winky gets north of
the padded area, and gets chafed by the lycra. Youch. My muscle
soreness is nothing compared to my that chafing. Even 20 miles and I'm
ready to quit and hobble

I think I'm getting the picture: shorts slide down in front, expose the
winkie to chafing on the fabric above the chamois? Couple thing's I'd
look for to avoid that. From what I've seen, not all chamois are well
positioned in the shorts. Some chamois are sewn into the shorts too far
forward, some too far rearward. Maybe you've got a chamois that's sewn
in too far rearward? Is there plenty of chamois hanging off the back of
the saddle? Look for chamois fore-and-aft position when you try on
shorts. Crouch and bend the wais as if on your bike, and feel to see
that the chamois is far enough forward.

Also, some newer men's shorts sometimes include an absorbent "sponge"
or terry-looking panel sewn onto the front of the chamois. It's often
about two or three inches longer than the base chamois itself. Some
women's shorts have similar chamois without the added front panel. For
example, see the "Stretch Quadrotto Multi-L" about half way down the
Chamois Gallery at
http://www.geocities.com/almost_fast/shorts/chamois/
So if you think it might help, consider looking for shorts with a
chamois that has this added length in front.

Quoted message said:

I see - the PAD is known as a chamois, because it once was made of
chamois?

Exactly!

Quoted message said:

A pad that has no seams in its main area?

Actually, I prefer a pad that has no seams *at all* (other than the
stitching holding it in the shorts). See the top two chamois listed in
the Chamois Gallery:
http://www.geocities.com/almost_fast/shorts/chamois/

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

3. High enough rise that the waist stays up (keeping the crotch up as
well)

Right, definitely my main problem

On me, to find shorts with a rise high enough to keep the crotch up as
well, I try on the shorts and stand straight up. The waist should come
up close to my belly button, or even a touch higher. That's pretty high
as cycling shorts go, and there are plenty not so high, so I guess lots
of people may prefer a lower waist, but that's my preference. It seems
to keep the crotch pulled up anyway.

Quoted message said:

Anyway, thanks very much

Yerwelcome, and I hope you find (more) comfort on the bike!

Road Man said:

The animal was called "chamois." It's a smallish antelope-like
critter. True chamois "pads" have a really nice surface but no
cushioning. Modern chamois in shorts are synthetic, and have
potentially complex cushioning systems, and rarely have seams, at
least in the cheap Performance and REI shorts I use.

Ditto! I also like the cheap Performance and REI shorts, since they
have a seamless chamois. Unfortunately (for me) there are plenty of
otherwise really nice shorts with seams in the chamois. I guess some
people don't mind them, but for me it's a deal killer.

Quoted message said:

The short itself
can have seams, but some designs have flatter seams than others.

I also look for flattish seams (flatlock?). I'm only really bothered by
non-flat seams (overlock?) when four of them intersect in the crotch of
the shorts, giving the dreaded "seam bump" right where some of my seat
pressure goes. Otherwise non-flat seams are okay by me (in the rest of
the shorts, or if there's no intersection in the crotch).

In article <[email hidden]>,

Wound Up said:

You know, I asked the local shop about Chamois and seamless shorts, and
they seemed to think I was insane. He said that chamois was what they
used to use, and all their shorts had the typical parenial (sp?) pad

Congratulations. You misspelled perineal and perennial.

--
Michael Press

dvt said:

I like the cheapest Nashbar bib shorts, SKU NA-BIB5. My experience with
various bib shorts is quite limited, so there might be something better
out there.

Maybe there *is* something better out there, but that Nashbar bib short
has a great seamless chamois! Check out the second picture at the
Nashbar site:
http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=137&subcategory=1208&brand=&sku=13545&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=

or http://tinyurl.com/oold6 ,

then click on "more photos" and scroll down.

Quoted message said:

Speaking of lists, I had a long list of potential shorts. I bought
about twenty different brands and models, and returned most. I'm
talking a few thousand dollars here(!). I got tham lined up side by
side and tried them all on. Kind of a head-to-head elimination if you
will.

Ewwwww.