* First time swim intervals

either cut down the sendoffs or the yardage.. but stopping to take extra rest wont help you.. you
might have to "touch and go" or try them on 3:40 and work your way to a faster sendoff.. i dont know
much about meters so i cant tell you if your sendoff is good because most of my practices are in
short course yard pools.

Cam Wilson <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Today i went to the pool to try out some intervals along with my regular workout, as was suggested
by some folks in this ng. it was a fun and interesting experience.

i warmed up with a few hundred meters of easy freestyle, then moved into my main set, a continuous
swim of about 750m (my best yet! look out,
1000m). then i took a good breather and checked my watch timer... i set it to beep on 3:30
intervals.

the first few sets (100m each) went well, with about 20 seconds or so for recovery before the next
set. Then the effects of fatigue took over. The next few repeats found me doing *exactly* 3:30...
i could hear the watch beeping just as i completed the 100m... since i had no recovery time left,
i just took about 5-10 sec. to rest, then set off again. now the last couple of intervals i came
up short. and that was with some added pep to finish off strong. i guess this is just what
happens... in the beginning. i recall similar results when doing intervals in running the past
couple of summers.

then i cooled down with some laps of easy back crawl and then freestyle again.

so am i tackling this correctly? any advice on what i am doing? how to improve at this?

BTW, a previous workout with a pull-buoy and hand paddles really helped me with my technique
today. funny how using those swim aids even just a bit can do wonders for refining the form.

Thanks for any thoughts,

Cam

"Cam Wilson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Today i went to the pool to try out some intervals along with my regular workout, as was suggested
by some folks in this ng. it was a fun and interesting experience.

i warmed up with a few hundred meters of easy freestyle, then moved into my main set, a continuous
swim of about 750m (my best yet! look out,
1000m). then i took a good breather and checked my watch timer... i set it to beep on 3:30
intervals.

the first few sets (100m each) went well, with about 20 seconds or so for recovery before the next
set. Then the effects of fatigue took over. The next few repeats found me doing *exactly* 3:30...
i could hear the watch beeping just as i completed the 100m... since i had no recovery time left,
i just took about 5-10 sec. to rest, then set off again. now the last couple of intervals i came
up short. and that was with some added pep to finish off strong. i guess this is just what
happens... in the beginning. i recall similar results when doing intervals in running the past
couple of summers.

then i cooled down with some laps of easy back crawl and then freestyle again.

so am i tackling this correctly? any advice on what i am doing? how to improve at this?

BTW, a previous workout with a pull-buoy and hand paddles really helped me with my technique
today. funny how using those swim aids even just a bit can do wonders for refining the form.

Thanks for any thoughts,

Quoted message said:

Cam

You might be better off doing the 100m repeats first but that depends what your priorities are.
However, you are more likely to benefit from the repeats doing them first. You did right making sure
you still had a rest but perhaps the rest is still not allowing you adequate recovery. If you are
working hard, allow about 30 secs rest, otherwise 10-15 secs is good. You didn't mention how many
100s you did. Set yourself about 8 and aim to complete them all in about the same time (within 2 or
3 secs). If it feels easy, start to reduce the turnaround time, if hard extend the turnaround but
not during a set.

Best of luck, Paul

Cam There are lots of ways to swim "intervals", probably limited only by imagination.

In my case I swim intervals with relatively low amounts of rest when I am working on endurance, and
with larger amounts of rest (and of course faster pace) when working on speed.

There are also sets which start of with a fairly long interval and then gradually reduce interval
until virtually no rest at the end of the set. I like to do that (and the inverse for warm down)
occasionally so I get better feel for the pace I am swimming..

Personally I like about 10 secs of rest per 100m when working on my 1500 time.

Gerry "Cam Wilson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Today i went to the pool to try out some intervals along with my regular workout, as was suggested
by some folks in this ng. it was a fun and interesting experience.

i warmed up with a few hundred meters of easy freestyle, then moved into my main set, a continuous
swim of about 750m (my best yet! look out,
1000m). then i took a good breather and checked my watch timer... i set it to beep on 3:30
intervals.

the first few sets (100m each) went well, with about 20 seconds or so for recovery before the next
set. Then the effects of fatigue took over. The next few repeats found me doing *exactly* 3:30...
i could hear the watch beeping just as i completed the 100m... since i had no recovery time left,
i just took about 5-10 sec. to rest, then set off again. now the last couple of intervals i came
up short. and that was with some added pep to finish off strong. i guess this is just what
happens... in the beginning. i recall similar results when doing intervals in running the past
couple of summers.

then i cooled down with some laps of easy back crawl and then freestyle again.

so am i tackling this correctly? any advice on what i am doing? how to improve at this?

BTW, a previous workout with a pull-buoy and hand paddles really helped me with my technique
today. funny how using those swim aids even just a bit can do wonders for refining the form.

Thanks for any thoughts,

Cam

8 * 100 m on 3:30 is really slow, even for a tri-athlete.

IMHO, interval training is good to improve fitness, but doesn't do much for technique. At 3:30 you
certainly first have major technique problems to solve (with drills, coaching...) before improving
performance through better fitness. I personnaly don't think interval training is usefull before you
can swim 8*100m on 2:30.

Hope not to discourage you...

-- Olivier

Cam Wilson <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message :
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Today i went to the pool to try out some intervals along with my regular workout, as was suggested
by some folks in this ng. it was a fun and interesting experience.

i warmed up with a few hundred meters of easy freestyle, then moved into my main set, a continuous
swim of about 750m (my best yet! look out,
1000m). then i took a good breather and checked my watch timer... i set it to beep on 3:30
intervals.

the first few sets (100m each) went well, with about 20 seconds or so for recovery before the next
set. Then the effects of fatigue took over. The next few repeats found me doing *exactly* 3:30...
i could hear the watch beeping just as i completed the 100m... since i had no recovery time left,
i just took about 5-10 sec. to rest, then set off again. now the last couple of intervals i came
up short. and that was with some added pep to finish off strong. i guess this is just what
happens... in the beginning. i recall similar results when doing intervals in running the past
couple of summers.

then i cooled down with some laps of easy back crawl and then freestyle again.

so am i tackling this correctly? any advice on what i am doing? how to improve at this?

BTW, a previous workout with a pull-buoy and hand paddles really helped me with my technique
today. funny how using those swim aids even just a bit can do wonders for refining the form.

Thanks for any thoughts,

Cam

Cam, you say you come from a running background and it takes you 3:30 to complete 100m. I agree with
all the advice given to you so far concerning interval work. But I would also propose that you seek
advice from a coach or an experienced swimmer regarding technique work.

A 3:30/100m sounds like you would benefit a lot more from technique improvement than just from
training. I assume that you are a fit person, because of running, so IMHO stress should be put on
technique and not only on conditioning. After a couple of months practice, with good form, any
swimmer might be able to go easily 2:00-2:15 for each 100m.

HTH Sherman.

Cam Wilson <[email hidden]> escribió en el mensaje de noticias
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Today i went to the pool to try out some intervals along with my regular workout, as was suggested
by some folks in this ng. it was a fun and interesting experience.

i warmed up with a few hundred meters of easy freestyle, then moved into my main set, a continuous
swim of about 750m (my best yet! look out,
1000m). then i took a good breather and checked my watch timer... i set it to beep on 3:30
intervals.

the first few sets (100m each) went well, with about 20 seconds or so for recovery before the next
set. Then the effects of fatigue took over. The next few repeats found me doing *exactly* 3:30...
i could hear the watch beeping just as i completed the 100m... since i had no recovery time left,
i just took about 5-10 sec. to rest, then set off again. now the last couple of intervals i came
up short. and that was with some added pep to finish off strong. i guess this is just what
happens... in the beginning. i recall similar results when doing intervals in running the past
couple of summers.

then i cooled down with some laps of easy back crawl and then freestyle again.

so am i tackling this correctly? any advice on what i am doing? how to improve at this?

BTW, a previous workout with a pull-buoy and hand paddles really helped me with my technique
today. funny how using those swim aids even just a bit can do wonders for refining the form.

Thanks for any thoughts,

Cam

Olivier said:

8 * 100 m on 3:30 is really slow, even for a tri-athlete.

IMHO, interval training is good to improve fitness, but doesn't do much

for

Quoted message said:

technique. At 3:30 you certainly first have major technique problems to solve (with drills,
coaching...) before improving performance through

better

Quoted message said:

fitness. I personnaly don't think interval training is usefull before you can swim 8*100m on 2:30.

8 x 100 on 3.30 is fine, depending on what you are trying to achieve. It would have to be a very
slow swimmer to benefit using it as a basic endurance set though. As an occasional speed/lactate set
at max effort for a fast swimmer it would have benefit.

--
BD

(Jason O'Rourke) said:

Cam Wilson said:

was i asking for an opinion on my speed? nope. i'm just a beginner about to do a beginner's tri.
and i'm rather new to swimming too. i just want to get out there, do my best, and have fun.

BTW, it doesn't take me 3:30 to do 100m. please read the whole thread before making a comment
like that. you only caught the tail end of it.

Quoted message said:

when i am fresh (not worn out by a workout), i do 100m in about 2:39.

Cam, you got a bit too defensive here; he was giving valid advice. Even a 2:30 100 translates to a
40 minute mile, which is rather on the slow side for the full length, you're doing that pace just
100m at a time. This suggests strongly a technique issue, and so doing intervals to

improve

Quoted message said:

speed seems wrong to me as well.

Building up your continuous swimming ability (you said you're at 750 and rising) strikes me as
more productive for what you wish to do. That's all I did in preparation for Alcatraz (2400m).
Unless you're doing a spring tri (400m), I wouldn't bother with speed work until next year.

Breaking up the swim into varying distances with short rests (10-40secs depending on distance) would
be good for stamina, and make it more interesting. For the speed mentioned technique work will be
more important and if broken up suitably as above will improve stamina too.

If technique is in need of improvement, stamina work with poor technique and no correction WILL only
reinforce poor technique.
--
BD

Cam I would second the response that suggested you might join a Masters group. There are usually
swimmers of all ages and abilities in a Masters group so don't feel threatened. Most coaches will be
able to provide stroke correction as well as workouts that will help your improvement. I believe
that you are interested primarily in Triathlons, and may feel that the 4 stroke emphasis in many
masters clubs would be wasteful if you are mainly interested in free style. Personally I found that
swimming the other strokes not only provides variety, but seems to help my conditioning.

Gerry

"Cam Wilson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Today i went to the pool to try out some intervals along with my regular workout, as was suggested
by some folks in this ng. it was a fun and interesting experience.

i warmed up with a few hundred meters of easy freestyle, then moved into my main set, a continuous
swim of about 750m (my best yet! look out,
1000m). then i took a good breather and checked my watch timer... i set it to beep on 3:30
intervals.

the first few sets (100m each) went well, with about 20 seconds or so for recovery before the next
set. Then the effects of fatigue took over. The next few repeats found me doing *exactly* 3:30...
i could hear the watch beeping just as i completed the 100m... since i had no recovery time left,
i just took about 5-10 sec. to rest, then set off again. now the last couple of intervals i came
up short. and that was with some added pep to finish off strong. i guess this is just what
happens... in the beginning. i recall similar results when doing intervals in running the past
couple of summers.

then i cooled down with some laps of easy back crawl and then freestyle again.

so am i tackling this correctly? any advice on what i am doing? how to improve at this?

BTW, a previous workout with a pull-buoy and hand paddles really helped me with my technique
today. funny how using those swim aids even just a bit can do wonders for refining the form.

Thanks for any thoughts,

Cam

In article <[email hidden]>,

Paul Gormley said:

You might be better off doing the 100m repeats first but that depends what your priorities are.
However, you are more likely to benefit from the repeats doing them first. You did right making
sure you still had a rest but perhaps the rest is still not allowing you adequate recovery. If you
are working hard, allow about 30 secs rest, otherwise 10-15 secs is good. You didn't mention how
many 100s you did. Set yourself about 8 and aim to complete them all in about the same time
(within 2 or 3 secs). If it feels easy, start to reduce the turnaround time, if hard extend the
turnaround but not during a set.

Best of luck, Paul

Paul,

Oops, I thought I did mention the number of 100s I did.... I did 8 in that first workout. Sounds
like I got that part right.

I guess I need to add a little more time in order to learn a pace that I can maintain through each
repeat. Yeah, I was working pretty hard on these, so I needed closer to 30s to rest. I was VERY
close on the first few repeats, then the next few were very close to each other though slower than
the first 3, and the last couple were just a mess 🙂

It is encouraging to hear that I am sort of on the right track.

Thanks for the thoughts,

Cam

Sorry.... You misunderstand. I didn't take EXTRA rest, but rather because I had ZERO time for a
rest, I "cheated" and took about 10sec to rest (cutting into the next interval). I think you're
right about going at 3:40 or thereabouts for now, and work up from there. Hey, I'm no speed demon...
just doing my beginner best ! 🙂

Cam

In article said:

either cut down the sendoffs or the yardage.. but stopping to take extra rest wont help you.. you
might have to "touch and go" or try them on 3:40 and work your way to a faster sendoff.. i dont
know much about meters so i cant tell you if your sendoff is good because most of my practices are
in short course yard pools.

Cam Wilson <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Today i went to the pool to try out some intervals along with my regular workout, as was
suggested by some folks in this ng. it was a fun and interesting experience.

i warmed up with a few hundred meters of easy freestyle, then moved into my main set, a
continuous swim of about 750m (my best yet! look out,
1000m). then i took a good breather and checked my watch timer... i set it to beep on 3:30
intervals.

the first few sets (100m each) went well, with about 20 seconds or so for recovery before the
next set. Then the effects of fatigue took over. The next few repeats found me doing *exactly*
3:30... i could hear the watch beeping just as i completed the 100m... since i had no recovery
time left, i just took about 5-10 sec. to rest, then set off again. now the last couple of
intervals i came up short. and that was with some added pep to finish off strong. i guess this
is just what happens... in the beginning. i recall similar results when doing intervals in
running the past couple of summers.

then i cooled down with some laps of easy back crawl and then freestyle again.

so am i tackling this correctly? any advice on what i am doing? how to improve at this?

BTW, a previous workout with a pull-buoy and hand paddles really helped me with my technique
today. funny how using those swim aids even just a bit can do wonders for refining the form.

Thanks for any thoughts,

Cam

In article <[email hidden]>, "Old Swimmer"

Quoted message said:

Cam There are lots of ways to swim "intervals", probably limited only by imagination.

In my case I swim intervals with relatively low amounts of rest when I am working on endurance,
and with larger amounts of rest (and of course faster pace) when working on speed.

There are also sets which start of with a fairly long interval and then gradually reduce interval
until virtually no rest at the end of the set. I like to do that (and the inverse for warm down)
occasionally so I get better feel for the pace I am swimming..

Personally I like about 10 secs of rest per 100m when working on my 1500 time.

Gerry

sounds good. i'll just play with this and not turn it into rocket science. i do love the sports
physiology side of things though.

Cam

In article said:

8 * 100 m on 3:30 is really slow, even for a tri-athlete.

IMHO, interval training is good to improve fitness, but doesn't do much for technique. At 3:30 you
certainly first have major technique problems to solve (with drills, coaching...) before improving
performance through better fitness. I personnaly don't think interval training is usefull before
you can swim 8*100m on 2:30.

Hope not to discourage you...

-- Olivier

was i asking for an opinion on my speed? nope. i'm just a beginner about to do a beginner's tri. and
i'm rather new to swimming too. i just want to get out there, do my best, and have fun.

BTW, it doesn't take me 3:30 to do 100m. please read the whole thread before making a comment like
that. you only caught the tail end of it. it was only after several repeats, and when i was
sufficiently fatigued, that i was logging close to that. a friend who is a very good swimmer
commented that my technique is pretty good. i'm not out to win any awards, just get through the tri
swim comfortably (which i can).

when i am fresh (not worn out by a workout), i do 100m in about 2:39.

no, you haven't discouraged me.... just comes across as unsolicited advice. no skin off my nose. i'm
in no position to get a coach. i haven't even done a tri before, and i know i'm not going to be
racing at a competitive level.

anyhoo....

Cam

In article <[email hidden]>, "Old Swimmer"

Quoted message said:

Cam I would second the response that suggested you might join a Masters group. There are usually
swimmers of all ages and abilities in a Masters group so don't feel threatened. Most coaches will
be able to provide stroke correction as well as workouts that will help your improvement. I
believe that you are interested primarily in Triathlons, and may feel that the 4 stroke emphasis
in many masters clubs would be wasteful if you are mainly interested in free style. Personally I
found that swimming the other strokes not only provides variety, but seems to help my
conditioning.

Gerry

i've kicked around the idea of joining a Masters group. the only thing in my way at the moment is
lack of job and funds. once i take care of that, i can then go for something like this. i think i'd
enjoy working out with a group, for both the exchange of ideas and the comraderie while
training/learning.

thanks for the thoughts, Gerry.

Cam

Cam Wilson said:

Sorry.... You misunderstand. I didn't take EXTRA rest, but rather because I had ZERO time for a
rest, I "cheated" and took about 10sec to rest (cutting into the next interval). I think you're
right about going at 3:40 or thereabouts for now, and work up from there. Hey, I'm no speed
demon... just doing my beginner best ! 🙂

It sounds like you have naturally hit upon the other way to do pace work. I explained the method of
using the fixed interval, which you have now tried. But the interval you chose proved to be a bit
ambitious, and so you discovered the concept of short rest repeats. What you chose to do, resting 10
seconds after each 100, is another way to swim the set. Rather than combining the two methods, so
that you switch to the 10 second rest when you can no longer maintain the interval, I think you
should choose one method or the other for each workout. For example, you might swim the set with a
fixed interval one day, say 4:00 instead of 3:30, since you had trouble with 3:30, and when you swim
the set next time, use the short rest method instead. Using a 10 second rest is quite common.

It is important to keep track of how you are doing over the weeks and months by recording your times
in a notebook. Record all your times, if possible, but at least your average. Youse the "mode"
rather than the "median".

martin

Quoted message said:

Cam

In article said:

either cut down the sendoffs or the yardage.. but stopping to take extra rest wont help you..
you might have to "touch and go" or try them on 3:40 and work your way to a faster sendoff.. i
dont know much about meters so i cant tell you if your sendoff is good because most of my
practices are in short course yard pools.

Cam Wilson <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Today i went to the pool to try out some intervals along with my regular workout, as was
suggested by some folks in this ng. it was a fun and interesting experience.

i warmed up with a few hundred meters of easy freestyle, then moved into my main set, a
continuous swim of about 750m (my best yet! look out,
1000m). then i took a good breather and checked my watch timer... i set it to beep on 3:30
intervals.

the first few sets (100m each) went well, with about 20 seconds or so for recovery before the
next set. Then the effects of fatigue took over. The next few repeats found me doing *exactly*
3:30... i could hear the watch beeping just as i completed the 100m... since i had no recovery
time left, i just took about 5-10 sec. to rest, then set off again. now the last couple of
intervals i came up short. and that was with some added pep to finish off strong. i guess this
is just what happens... in the beginning. i recall similar results when doing intervals in
running the past couple of summers.

then i cooled down with some laps of easy back crawl and then freestyle again.

so am i tackling this correctly? any advice on what i am doing? how to improve at this?

BTW, a previous workout with a pull-buoy and hand paddles really helped me with my technique
today. funny how using those swim aids even just a bit can do wonders for refining the form.

Thanks for any thoughts,

Cam

--
Martin Smith email: [email hidden] Vollsveien 9 tel. : +47 6783 1188
P.O. Box 482 mob. : +47 932 48 303 1327 Lysaker, Norway

Cam Wilson said:

I guess I need to add a little more time in order to learn a pace that I can maintain through each
repeat. Yeah, I was working pretty hard on these, so I needed closer to 30s to rest. I was VERY
close on the first few repeats, then the next few were very close to each other though slower than
the first 3, and the last couple were just a mess 🙂

This illustrates another point, which is normally seen in speed training, otherwise known as sprint
sets. It is the idea of deliberately pushing the body past its ability to cope. It is a way of
testing, and then pushing back, your limits. You often see weight lifters training this way, ie they
use a very heavy weight and do, say, five repetitions, but they just barely complete the last one,
or they don't complete it, and their spotter has to help them lift the weight back onto the stand.
This isn't a mistake, when this happens; they do it deliberately to push their musclles to the point
of failure.

It isn't something you do often in swimming training, but you do see it in sprint sets, where, for
example, a sprinter might swim 10x50 meters, each one on 2 minutes. He goes all out on each one,
absolutely as hard as he can, and toward the end of the set, holding his stroke together becomes
difficult. His arms and legs start to feel like spaghetti.

That kind of training is probably not suitable for your goal of running a credible triathlon, but
pace training is, using both the fixed interval method and the short rest interval method.

martin

--
Martin Smith email: [email hidden] Vollsveien 9 tel. : +47 6783 1188
P.O. Box 482 mob. : +47 932 48 303 1327 Lysaker, Norway

Cam Wilson said:

was i asking for an opinion on my speed? nope. i'm just a beginner about to do a beginner's tri.
and i'm rather new to swimming too. i just want to get out there, do my best, and have fun.

BTW, it doesn't take me 3:30 to do 100m. please read the whole thread before making a comment like
that. you only caught the tail end of it.

Quoted message said:

when i am fresh (not worn out by a workout), i do 100m in about 2:39.

Cam, you got a bit too defensive here; he was giving valid advice. Even a 2:30 100 translates to a
40 minute mile, which is rather on the slow side for the full length, you're doing that pace just
100m at a time. This suggests strongly a technique issue, and so doing intervals to improve speed
seems wrong to me as well.

Building up your continuous swimming ability (you said you're at 750 and rising) strikes me as more
productive for what you wish to do. That's all I did in preparation for Alcatraz (2400m). Unless
you're doing a spring tri (400m), I wouldn't bother with speed work until next year.
--
Jason O'Rourke www.jor.com

Cam Wilson said:

In article said:

8 * 100 m on 3:30 is really slow, even for a tri-athlete.

IMHO, interval training is good to improve fitness, but doesn't do much for technique. At 3:30
you certainly first have major technique problems to solve (with drills, coaching...) before
improving performance through better fitness. I personnaly don't think interval training is
usefull before you can swim 8*100m on 2:30.

Hope not to discourage you...

-- Olivier

was i asking for an opinion on my speed? nope. i'm just a beginner about to do a beginner's tri.
and i'm rather new to swimming too. i just want to get out there, do my best, and have fun.

BTW, it doesn't take me 3:30 to do 100m. please read the whole thread before making a comment like
that. you only caught the tail end of it. it was only after several repeats, and when i was
sufficiently fatigued, that i was logging close to that. a friend who is a very good swimmer
commented that my technique is pretty good. i'm not out to win any awards, just get through the tri
swim comfortably (which i can).

when i am fresh (not worn out by a workout), i do 100m in about 2:39.

no, you haven't discouraged me.... just comes across as unsolicited advice. no skin off my nose.
i'm in no position to get a coach. i haven't even done a tri before, and i know i'm not going to be
racing at a competitive level.

anyhoo....

Cam

I was going to mention what Olivier has mentioned when I first read your message. However I
did not due to the possibility I would offend. However since someone else has already
cracked the egg here's
my .02$. I recently did a LT test. This test consisted of repeats of 100, each one progressively
faster. I also was wearing a heart rate monitor. Somewhat to my dismay, but I kinda expected it,
the difference between a fairly relaxed 130-135 HR and a rather hard 160-165 HR resulted in a
mere 8-10 sec increase per 100. This 8-10 sec translated to a mere 7-8% increase in speed. If
you're asking what this means to you. Well the way I see it is this. You want to get faster in
the pool. In order for you to drop you intervals by 8% you will need a near 30% increase in
conditioning. This should change your 3:30 to approximately 3:15, hardly a massive change. So
the question is whats left to make me faster, the answer technique. From reading your post over
the past months I started swimming a little under a year before you did. I spent some time doing
the get in the pool and swim thing and even started working on increasing my distance. What
happened was I was increasing my distance but getting very little gains in speed and was still
struggling every distance increase. I decided that there was no possible way that swimming more
was going to get me to were I wanted to be. I ended up stopping all of my swimming and work
excusively on my technique. I did most of this in a self taught situtaion and took an occasional
lesson to get proffesional input. After about six months of this I started swimming again. To my
delight I found that my 100 times dropped nearly a minute and this without doing a single lap of
actual "workout" swimming. If anything my actual swim conditioning had decreased. Over the next
year I swam with the local masters groups and continued to work on technique and conditioning
and my times still continue to drop but not nearly what the initial "technique only" got
mz. My point is at 3:30 a hundred working on intervals may get you gains but probably not nearly the
gains that technique work will get you. The way I see it, and particularly for the triathletes,
If I can swim 1/4 mi at the same speed as the guy next to me, but with less effort I win. The
time spent on technique training in the water is much much more fruitfull than equivalent
training for your running or biking on land.

~Matt

In article <[email hidden]>,

Martin W. Smith said:

Cam Wilson said:

Sorry.... You misunderstand. I didn't take EXTRA rest, but rather because I had ZERO time for a
rest, I "cheated" and took about 10sec to rest (cutting into the next interval). I think you're
right about going at 3:40 or thereabouts for now, and work up from there. Hey, I'm no speed
demon... just doing my beginner best ! 🙂

It sounds like you have naturally hit upon the other way to do pace work. I explained the method
of using the fixed interval, which you have now tried. But the interval you chose proved to be a
bit ambitious, and so you discovered the concept of short rest repeats. What you chose to do,
resting 10 seconds after each 100, is another way to swim the set. Rather than combining the two
methods, so that you switch to the 10 second rest when you can no longer maintain the interval, I
think you should choose one method or the other for each workout. For example, you might swim the
set with a fixed interval one day, say 4:00 instead of 3:30, since you had trouble with 3:30, and
when you swim the set next time, use the short rest method instead. Using a 10 second rest is
quite common.

It is important to keep track of how you are doing over the weeks and months by recording your
times in a notebook. Record all your times, if possible, but at least your average. Youse the
"mode" rather than the "median".

martin

Cool, now I'm gonna start doing intervals the way I do them in running race training. I am well
aware of that method, but wasn't aware that people went that route in swimming. Is 10 second rest
enough? I found that after several repeats, when the body had become sufficiently fatigued, 10 sec.
really didn't help and i just churned out sub-standard reps.

But as you say, maybe I'll do both types of intervals, each type in a different workout. Thanks for
all the welcome advice.

Cam

In article <[email hidden]>,

Martin W. Smith said:

Cam Wilson said:

I guess I need to add a little more time in order to learn a pace that I can maintain through
each repeat. Yeah, I was working pretty hard on these, so I needed closer to 30s to rest. I was
VERY close on the first few repeats, then the next few were very close to each other though
slower than the first 3, and the last couple were just a mess 🙂

This illustrates another point, which is normally seen in speed training, otherwise known as
sprint sets. It is the idea of deliberately pushing the body past its ability to cope. It is a way
of testing, and then pushing back, your limits. You often see weight lifters training this way, ie
they use a very heavy weight and do, say, five repetitions, but they just barely complete the last
one, or they don't complete it, and their spotter has to help them lift the weight back onto the
stand. This isn't a mistake, when this happens; they do it deliberately to push their musclles to
the point of failure.

It isn't something you do often in swimming training, but you do see it in sprint sets, where, for
example, a sprinter might swim 10x50 meters, each one on 2 minutes. He goes all out on each one,
absolutely as hard as he can, and toward the end of the set, holding his stroke together becomes
difficult. His arms and legs start to feel like spaghetti.

That kind of training is probably not suitable for your goal of running a credible triathlon, but
pace training is, using both the fixed interval method and the short rest interval method.

martin

Aha, you are now speaking my language (i'll learn more swim-speak as time goes on). i come from a
running background and the concepts you talk about sound like "Yasso 800's", something runners do at
the track. it means doing 800m in the same amount of time, several times, and i tell you, the last
few reps are pain, jello, and just plain silliness all combined. but it trains the body beyond what
it's used to, and these sets eventually become easier.

this is good discussion. it's keeping me interested and i'll certainly investigate and experiment
further. thanks again, Martin.

Cam