Security at home

elyob said:

I've decided to start locking my bikes up at home. (Having been
burgled on Tuesday). I've already got a strengthened kryptonite
security cable. I now need to get a bolt or two into the concrete
floor and a half decent padlock.
Any advice on type of bolts that can't be easily removed? What sort
of drill bit would I need? Where do I buy this stuff?

The anchor point: Motorcycle ground anchor. If you cannot find one cheaply
via other sources, motorcycle dealers usually sell this sort of thing.

Drills: SDS powerdrills. If you cannot borrow one, use a tool hire shop.
They drill through concrete very very quickly.

- Nigel

--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

elyob said:

I've decided to start locking my bikes up at home. (Having been burgled on
Tuesday). I've already got a strengthened kryptonite security cable. I now
need to get a bolt or two into the concrete floor and a half decent padlock.

Any advice on type of bolts that can't be easily removed? What sort of drill
bit would I need? Where do I buy this stuff?

Any decent hardware shop should do. Get an eye bolt or staple and make
a hole through the concrete at least four inches wide. The hole should
be tapered inwards so that the subsequent fill is well set. Attatch the
eye bolt to a plate of suitable size to provide a key.
Set in the hole so that clippers cannot reach the neck of the bolt or
use it as a lever. and refill with a strong concrete (ie a reasonably
high cement ratio - about 1:3 should be ideal.)

An alternative to the eye bolt is a piece of chain, at least half inch
(chain is measured as the diameter of the bar used to make it) and a
couple of bits of steel reinforcing bar to act as the key.

...d

Quoted message said:

Thanks

elyob said:

Any advice on type of bolts that can't be easily removed? What sort
of drill bit would I need? Where do I buy this stuff?

Motorbike shops sell locking points.

There are various approaches to making it not possible to remove - you
can use bolts where the head shears off at a given torque, leaving a
smooth collar, or a fancy head shape. One reasonably simple approach
is to use a bolt with a hex socket on the top (ie, done up with a
allen key) and when you've done it up find a ball-bearing that doesn't
quite fit in the socket, and pound it into place with a hammer. This
makes it difficult to drill out too, because the drill bit skitters
off the ball. Locking points generally come with an appropriate
security bolt.

Alternatively, I got a few meters of heavy chain (not cheap), broke a
8" square hole all the way through the garage floor and hollowed out a
small cavity beneath the slab. I put a steel bar through the last
link in the chain and mauouvered the bar into the cavity such that the
bar projected under the slab on each side (bar was longer than 8"😉.
Then I concreted it up. That can't be easily removed.

The chain lies along the floor in the garage and other things (bikes,
ladders) are locked to it using cable locks through links. The end of
the chain secures the trice by wrapping the last few links round the
cruciform of the frame and padlocking it back on itself.

If you need to drill - if you want to make your life easy, borrow or
hire a 'SDS' drill (technically, it's SDS+ - pronounced 'ess dee ess
plus'😉. You don't want 'SDS Max' unless you plan on demolishing some
houses while you're at it.

Something like: http://www.hss.com/index.php?g=2311

SDS is many times easier to drill into concrete than with a 'normal'
hammer drill. Just go to a tool hire place and say you want a SDS
drill and bit (buy anchor point first so you know what size of bit you
want). The lightest / smallest SDS they have will be fine for any
anchor point you're installing. If it's a commercially-oriented tool
hire place they might not have a 240V drill, it's possible they'll
only have 110V. If the drill you're offered has a chunky yellow round
plug on it with round pins , you'll want a transformer to run it -
they'll hire that too you too. Transformer is a square yellow lump
that weights a tonne.

http://www.hss.com/index.php?g=40202

Of course, if you can borrow any old hammer drill from a mate it will
be cheaper, and for just two holes (which is probably all you need)
probably adequate. The optimum solution is to find a mate with an SDS
drill.

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

Ian Smith said:

Alternatively, I got a few meters of heavy chain (not cheap), broke a
8" square hole all the way through the garage floor and hollowed out a
small cavity beneath the slab. I put a steel bar through the last
link in the chain and mauouvered the bar into the cavity such that the
bar projected under the slab on each side (bar was longer than 8"😉.
Then I concreted it up. That can't be easily removed.

That is my preferred approach.

Quoted message said:

If you need to drill - if you want to make your life easy, borrow or
hire a 'SDS' drill (technically, it's SDS+ - pronounced 'ess dee ess
plus'😉. You don't want 'SDS Max' unless you plan on demolishing some
houses while you're at it.

Or if you figure it could be useful, the B&Q budget SDS+ one is very
good value (should be well under 50 quid with bits) and you'll wonder
why you ever bothered with toy drills for such jobs. Mine has done a
significant amount of work and more than paid for itself.

If you hire a drill, you may get a real SDS one which is bigger, and
very much lighter in use. I had to put a hole through my wall, which is
about 90cm thick at that point) and the big drill and bit I hired was a
question of point it at the wall and just hold it, it did all the work.
Took quite a while, about 5-10 mins to do the full hole ;-) The toy
drill (Balck and decker standard hammer drill) just bounced off the
stone wall.

...d

Nigel Cliffe said:

Quoted message said:

I've decided to start locking my bikes up at home. (Having been
burgled on Tuesday). I've already got a strengthened kryptonite
security cable. I now need to get a bolt or two into the concrete
floor and a half decent padlock.

The anchor point: Motorcycle ground anchor. If you cannot find one
cheaply via other sources, motorcycle dealers usually sell this sort of
thing.

One of the members of ACF is making a device called the Torc ground anquor:

http://www.torc-anchors.com/

It does the job pretty efficiently as far as I can tell.

Becky

"David Martin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ian Smith said:

Alternatively, I got a few meters of heavy chain (not cheap), broke a
8" square hole all the way through the garage floor and hollowed out a
small cavity beneath the slab. I put a steel bar through the last
link in the chain and mauouvered the bar into the cavity such that the
bar projected under the slab on each side (bar was longer than 8"😉.
Then I concreted it up. That can't be easily removed.

That is my preferred approach.

Quoted message said:

If you need to drill - if you want to make your life easy, borrow or
hire a 'SDS' drill (technically, it's SDS+ - pronounced 'ess dee ess
plus'😉. You don't want 'SDS Max' unless you plan on demolishing some
houses while you're at it.

Or if you figure it could be useful, the B&Q budget SDS+ one is very
good value (should be well under 50 quid with bits) and you'll wonder
why you ever bothered with toy drills for such jobs. Mine has done a
significant amount of work and more than paid for itself.

If you hire a drill, you may get a real SDS one which is bigger, and
very much lighter in use. I had to put a hole through my wall, which is
about 90cm thick at that point) and the big drill and bit I hired was a
question of point it at the wall and just hold it, it did all the work.
Took quite a while, about 5-10 mins to do the full hole ;-) The toy
drill (Balck and decker standard hammer drill) just bounced off the
stone wall.

..d

After having my bike nicked from the garage I have fitted one of these.

http://www.tuskstore.com/product_info.php?cPath=24&products_id=45

with some kryptonite cables. it can be fitted with an ordinary hammer drill
into the brickwork and comes with all the fittings but require a 12mm
masonry drill bit. I fastened the thing to the wall and fitted the cable and
I can pull with all of my 12 stone with feet fixed on the wall and it
doesn't budge.

cheers
Jon_H

p.s. I don't work for tuskstore.

Jon_H said:

"David Martin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ian Smith said:

Alternatively, I got a few meters of heavy chain (not cheap), broke a
8" square hole all the way through the garage floor and hollowed out a
small cavity beneath the slab. I put a steel bar through the last
link in the chain and mauouvered the bar into the cavity such that the
bar projected under the slab on each side (bar was longer than 8"😉.
Then I concreted it up. That can't be easily removed.

That is my preferred approach.

Quoted message said:

If you need to drill - if you want to make your life easy, borrow or
hire a 'SDS' drill (technically, it's SDS+ - pronounced 'ess dee ess
plus'😉. You don't want 'SDS Max' unless you plan on demolishing some
houses while you're at it.

Or if you figure it could be useful, the B&Q budget SDS+ one is very
good value (should be well under 50 quid with bits) and you'll wonder
why you ever bothered with toy drills for such jobs. Mine has done a
significant amount of work and more than paid for itself.

If you hire a drill, you may get a real SDS one which is bigger, and
very much lighter in use. I had to put a hole through my wall, which is
about 90cm thick at that point) and the big drill and bit I hired was a
question of point it at the wall and just hold it, it did all the work.
Took quite a while, about 5-10 mins to do the full hole ;-) The toy
drill (Balck and decker standard hammer drill) just bounced off the
stone wall.

..d

After having my bike nicked from the garage I have fitted one of these.

http://www.tuskstore.com/product_info.php?cPath=24&products_id=45

with some kryptonite cables. it can be fitted with an ordinary hammer drill
into the brickwork and comes with all the fittings but require a 12mm
masonry drill bit. I fastened the thing to the wall and fitted the cable and
I can pull with all of my 12 stone with feet fixed on the wall and it
doesn't budge.

have you tried a crowbar? The pull out force will depend on what you
have set it in to. I'd not trust anything set into the local brick
round here..

...d

Quoted message said:

cheers
Jon_H

p.s. I don't work for tuskstore.

"David Martin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jon_H said:

"David Martin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ian Smith wrote:
> Alternatively, I got a few meters of heavy chain (not cheap), broke

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> 8" square hole all the way through the garage floor and hollowed out

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> small cavity beneath the slab. I put a steel bar through the last
> link in the chain and mauouvered the bar into the cavity such that

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> bar projected under the slab on each side (bar was longer than 8"😉.
> Then I concreted it up. That can't be easily removed.

That is my preferred approach.

> If you need to drill - if you want to make your life easy, borrow or
> hire a 'SDS' drill (technically, it's SDS+ - pronounced 'ess dee ess
> plus'😉. You don't want 'SDS Max' unless you plan on demolishing

some

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> houses while you're at it.

Or if you figure it could be useful, the B&Q budget SDS+ one is very
good value (should be well under 50 quid with bits) and you'll wonder
why you ever bothered with toy drills for such jobs. Mine has done a
significant amount of work and more than paid for itself.

If you hire a drill, you may get a real SDS one which is bigger, and
very much lighter in use. I had to put a hole through my wall, which

is

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

about 90cm thick at that point) and the big drill and bit I hired was

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

question of point it at the wall and just hold it, it did all the

work.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Took quite a while, about 5-10 mins to do the full hole ;-) The toy
drill (Balck and decker standard hammer drill) just bounced off the
stone wall.

..d

After having my bike nicked from the garage I have fitted one of these.

http://www.tuskstore.com/product_info.php?cPath=24&products_id=45

with some kryptonite cables. it can be fitted with an ordinary hammer

drill

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

into the brickwork and comes with all the fittings but require a 12mm
masonry drill bit. I fastened the thing to the wall and fitted the cable

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I can pull with all of my 12 stone with feet fixed on the wall and it
doesn't budge.

have you tried a crowbar? The pull out force will depend on what you
have set it in to. I'd not trust anything set into the local brick
round here..

..d

Quoted message said:

cheers
Jon_H

p.s. I don't work for tuskstore.

It goes into concrete block and i don't think a crowbar would do it as there
isn't enough to lever on.

cheers
Jon_H

Quoted message said:

in message <[email hidden]>, elyob

(') said:

I've decided to start locking my bikes up at home. (Having been burgled
on
Tuesday). I've already got a strengthened kryptonite security cable. I
now need to get a bolt or two into the concrete floor and a half decent
padlock.

I can't offer you any advice, just sympathy. Being burgled is a most
unpleasant experience.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; when in the [censored], the wise man plants courgettes

"David Martin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ian Smith said:

If you need to drill - if you want to make your life easy, borrow or
hire a 'SDS' drill (technically, it's SDS+ - pronounced 'ess dee ess
plus'😉. You don't want 'SDS Max' unless you plan on demolishing some
houses while you're at it.

I'm just trying to stop the oppurtunist thief, and want to slow them down.
The back yard is hard to get into, but much harder to get out of. There is a
20ft drop from the top of the fence.

I just bought one of there an M8 eye bolt and a padlock ....

http://www.tool-net.co.uk/p-311410/tool-net-m8-eye-bolt-heavy-duty-shield-anchor-pack-2.html

I'm just trying to work out how to install it. I'm borrowing a drill
tomorrow, so hopefully won't need extra expense of hiring or buying a drill.

So, according to that link, I drill the hole, hammer the casing into said
hole, then screw in the bolt and tighten the nut. Okay. But at what point
does the expanding bit happen. I'm playing with it now, and the bolt just
goes right through the nut at the bottom.

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

in message <[email hidden]>, elyob

(') said:

I've decided to start locking my bikes up at home. (Having been burgled
on
Tuesday). I've already got a strengthened kryptonite security cable. I
now need to get a bolt or two into the concrete floor and a half decent
padlock.

I can't offer you any advice, just sympathy. Being burgled is a most
unpleasant experience.

It's more of a bugger when your insurance company refuses to pay up. 🙁

"elyob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I just bought one of there an M8 eye bolt and a padlock ....

http://www.tool-net.co.uk/p-311410/tool-net-m8-eye-bolt-heavy-duty-shield-anchor-pack-2.html

I'm just trying to work out how to install it. I'm borrowing a drill
tomorrow, so hopefully won't need extra expense of hiring or buying a
drill.

So, according to that link, I drill the hole, hammer the casing into said
hole, then screw in the bolt and tighten the nut. Okay. But at what point
does the expanding bit happen. I'm playing with it now, and the bolt just
goes right through the nut at the bottom.

At one end there's the wedge-shaped bit which is threaded. At the other end
there's a nut, also threaded. Bring the two together, and it will expand.
Two ways to do this : wedge stays still by friction against the walls, turn
the eye. Or hold the eye still and turn the nut. Do both as appropriate to
end up with the eye and nut in the right place.

cheers,
clive

Jon_H said:

"David Martin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jon_H said:

After having my bike nicked from the garage I have fitted one of these.

http://www.tuskstore.com/product_info.php?cPath=24&products_id=45

with some kryptonite cables. it can be fitted with an ordinary hammer

drill

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

into the brickwork and comes with all the fittings but require a 12mm
masonry drill bit. I fastened the thing to the wall and fitted the cable

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I can pull with all of my 12 stone with feet fixed on the wall and it
doesn't budge.

have you tried a crowbar? The pull out force will depend on what you
have set it in to. I'd not trust anything set into the local brick
round here..

Quoted message said:

It goes into concrete block and i don't think a crowbar would do it as there
isn't enough to lever on.

That's what you think ;-)
A friction fit into concrete (which is essentially what this is) is
fine for simple static loads. As soon as you start doing interesting
things to it (such as gentle application of percussive loads) then the
concrete at the concrete/bolt interface breaks down and it becomes much
looser, to the point where it is readily removable. [1]

So the upshot is, if you have an expanding bolt type fitting, ensure
the theif cannot get direct access to it with a blunt instrument.

...d

[1] The same thin is true of concrete in general. Trying to knock a
hole through an unfeinforced concrete roof with a jackhammer is a poor
idea if you want the roof to remain otherwise intact.

Clive George said:

"elyob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

So, according to that link, I drill the hole, hammer the casing into said
hole, then screw in the bolt and tighten the nut. Okay. But at what point
does the expanding bit happen. I'm playing with it now, and the bolt just
goes right through the nut at the bottom.

At one end there's the wedge-shaped bit which is threaded. At the other end
there's a nut, also threaded. Bring the two together, and it will expand.
Two ways to do this : wedge stays still by friction against the walls, turn
the eye. Or hold the eye still and turn the nut. Do both as appropriate to
end up with the eye and nut in the right place.

I think if I were using that I'd drill the hole long enough that the
eye-bolt can run all the way in (ie, make it at least as deep as the
threaded bolt). Hammer sleave in, then put nut all the way up the
bolt, and run the whole lot all the way in. Restrain the eye with a
bar through the hole, while doing up the nut with a spanner. This
will draw the bolt through the sleave and expand it, without twisting
it in the hole.

Once you can't turn the nut any more, slacken it right off, screw the
eye in all the way again, orient it how you want it, hold it with bar
through the hole, then do the nut up tight again.

For a little extra security, you could wind the bolt all the way out,
apply some high strength loctite to the end of the bolt and
re-install carefully so as not to disturb the wedge (which shouldn't
happen - it should be jammed tight in the sleave).

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

"Ian Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Clive George said:

"elyob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

So, according to that link, I drill the hole, hammer the casing into
said
hole, then screw in the bolt and tighten the nut. Okay. But at what
point
does the expanding bit happen. I'm playing with it now, and the bolt
just
goes right through the nut at the bottom.

At one end there's the wedge-shaped bit which is threaded. At the other
end
there's a nut, also threaded. Bring the two together, and it will
expand.
Two ways to do this : wedge stays still by friction against the walls,
turn
the eye. Or hold the eye still and turn the nut. Do both as appropriate
to
end up with the eye and nut in the right place.

I think if I were using that I'd drill the hole long enough that the
eye-bolt can run all the way in (ie, make it at least as deep as the
threaded bolt). Hammer sleave in, then put nut all the way up the
bolt, and run the whole lot all the way in. Restrain the eye with a
bar through the hole, while doing up the nut with a spanner. This
will draw the bolt through the sleave and expand it, without twisting
it in the hole.

Yes, you must drill the hole deep enough for the entire length of the bolt.
The recommended width of the hole is such that you don't need to hammer the
sleeve in. You put it all in in one go.

Also adjustable spanner is quite good for holding the eye of the bolt while
tightening.

(I have a series of shelves suspended using these bolts)

cheers,
clive

"Ian Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Clive George said:

"elyob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

So, according to that link, I drill the hole, hammer the casing into
said
hole, then screw in the bolt and tighten the nut. Okay. But at what
point
does the expanding bit happen. I'm playing with it now, and the bolt
just
goes right through the nut at the bottom.

At one end there's the wedge-shaped bit which is threaded. At the other
end
there's a nut, also threaded. Bring the two together, and it will
expand.
Two ways to do this : wedge stays still by friction against the walls,
turn
the eye. Or hold the eye still and turn the nut. Do both as appropriate
to
end up with the eye and nut in the right place.

I think if I were using that I'd drill the hole long enough that the
eye-bolt can run all the way in (ie, make it at least as deep as the
threaded bolt). Hammer sleave in, then put nut all the way up the
bolt, and run the whole lot all the way in. Restrain the eye with a
bar through the hole, while doing up the nut with a spanner. This
will draw the bolt through the sleave and expand it, without twisting
it in the hole.

Once you can't turn the nut any more, slacken it right off, screw the
eye in all the way again, orient it how you want it, hold it with bar
through the hole, then do the nut up tight again.

For a little extra security, you could wind the bolt all the way out,
apply some high strength loctite to the end of the bolt and
re-install carefully so as not to disturb the wedge (which shouldn't
happen - it should be jammed tight in the sleave).

Sound advice, thanks, am having a go at this tomorrow. Just have to make
sure that I put it in a place that means I will use it. At the moment I've
just locked the bikes to each other. Hopefully there'll be enough length in
the cable to make this all nice and easy to lock regularly.

Quoted message said:

I'm just trying to stop the oppurtunist thief, and want to slow them
down.

Read about one brilliant alarm thingy. Basically some sort of sensor that
sits on the floor next to the (covered) bike. When someone sets it off a
small charge detonates with a bang that'll make them soil their pants, and
sends a shower of hideously bright paint over the room and anyone in it.

Prolly not for the forgetful mind. Not sure how you're meant to reach the
off switch either...

A little bit late maybe, but I thought I'd just add that you might be
able to find a cycle store that installs Sheffield stands fairly
cheaply. In Oxford, I know that the Oxford Cycle Workshop
(www.oxfordcycleworkshop.org.uk) will do them, and I think it's sub-£100
(though I realise this a decent chunk more than buying an anchor and
fitting it yourself). Don't know how easy it is to find someone to do it
elsewhere though...

Brian

elyob said:

I've decided to start locking my bikes up at home. (Having been burgled on
Tuesday). I've already got a strengthened kryptonite security cable. I now
need to get a bolt or two into the concrete floor and a half decent padlock.

Any advice on type of bolts that can't be easily removed? What sort of drill
bit would I need? Where do I buy this stuff?

Thanks

In article said:

Sound advice, thanks, am having a go at this tomorrow. Just have to make
sure that I put it in a place that means I will use it. At the moment I've
just locked the bikes to each other.

Some years ago, I read the story of someone who had thieves saw through
the frame of his custom built road bike so they could take the cheap
mountain bike it was locked to :-(