start and turns backstroke

major said:

on the start I'm worried to slide off with my foot,

That's a legitimate concern. At a meet, they will presumably have touch
pads on the pool wall below the handgrips, and the pads can be slippery.

I'd suggest practicing some starts, if at all possible, in one of the
competition lanes to get a feel for how slippery the pads are. It may
also help to stagger your feet a little, so that if one foot slips
perhaps the other won't. Beyond that, try to get as much thrust as
possible from throwing back your head and pushing on the handgrips with
your arms, so you don't have to rely as much on your feet.

Quoted message said:

I know that without watching me swimming, it could be difficult, but...
do you have any "standard" suggestion/hint/whatever to improve my turn
speed? I do the "standard" (is it standard?!?) turn: flags, 3 strokes,
turn from torso up to torso down, finish the stroke, turn, push against
the wall, 4 butterfly kicks, go..

Tuck your chin forcefully against your chest and keep it tucked
throughout the turn. Use the final armstroke (after you've rolled onto
your breast) to help drive you into the turn.

Quoted message said:

Unluckily I can't train properly the turns (this is the main problem,
actually) because in my swimming pool the flags are absent, and I train
in a 50m pool... then it is difficult to predict the exact position of
the border... I arrive near the border a bit "diffident"... maybe
because several times I've enjured my poor fingers and my heels ;-)

It may not matter. I've found that every pool has a slightly different
feel to it. So your best bet is always to practice your turns in the
competition lanes during your warmup at the meet, and to keep practicing
until you get the timing right and are confident you have it right (so
you aren't hesitating).

Hope this helps!

Bob

Robert W. McAdams said:

I'd suggest practicing some starts, if at all possible, in one of the
competition lanes to get a feel for how slippery the pads are.

it's a good idea... hoping it will be possible: usually there are many
people warming up, but I'll try to manage the situation ;-)

Quoted message said:

It may
also help to stagger your feet a little, so that if one foot slips
perhaps the other won't.

that's a great idea, but... is it legal? Well, I know that the rules
could change according to the kind of competition (for example in the
master competitions is still allowed the breaststroke kick in the
butterfly)... but in general line, is it allow to stagger the feet?
(for example, a sort of track start in the backstroke) and how long
should be the gap between the feet?

Quoted message said:

Beyond that, try to get as much thrust as
possible from throwing back your head and pushing on the handgrips with
your arms, so you don't have to rely as much on your feet.

yep!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

do you have any "standard" suggestion/hint/whatever to improve my turn
speed? I do the "standard" (is it standard?!?) turn: flags, 3 strokes,
turn from torso up to torso down, finish the stroke, turn, push against
the wall, 4 butterfly kicks, go..

Tuck your chin forcefully against your chest and keep it tucked
throughout the turn. Use the final armstroke (after you've rolled onto
your breast) to help drive you into the turn.

well, actually I do that... usually I follow with my glad the hand on
my final armstroke, because otherwise I become incoordinate and I loose
time, to follow your suggestion I see two chances:
1) increasing if is possible the speed of my arm in the final armstroke
2) shortening the corner of my elbow (then shortening the armstroke)...
in this case I must be sure to be sufficently near to the wall (maybe
making a bit longer the 3 final strokes after the flags)

which way do you suggest?

Quoted message said:

So your best bet is always to practice your turns in the
competition lanes during your warmup at the meet, and to keep practicing
until you get the timing right and are confident you have it right (so
you aren't hesitating).

I'll keep it in mind!!!

Quoted message said:

Hope this helps!

really helpful, thanks a lot,
Major

major said:

Robert W. McAdams wrote:

[cut]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Tuck your chin forcefully against your chest and keep it tucked
throughout the turn. Use the final armstroke (after you've rolled onto
your breast) to help drive you into the turn.

well, actually I do that... usually I follow with my *glad* the hand on

hem... I mean glance, sorry...

major said:

Robert W. McAdams said:

I'd suggest practicing some starts, if at all possible, in one of the
competition lanes to get a feel for how slippery the pads are.

it's a good idea... hoping it will be possible: usually there are many
people warming up, but I'll try to manage the situation ;-)

At every meet I've been in, there has been a warmup time before the meet
during which they had one or two lanes designated as one-way lanes where
people could practice starts.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It may
also help to stagger your feet a little, so that if one foot slips
perhaps the other won't.

that's a great idea, but... is it legal? Well, I know that the rules
could change according to the kind of competition (for example in the
master competitions is still allowed the breaststroke kick in the
butterfly)... but in general line, is it allow to stagger the feet?
(for example, a sort of track start in the backstroke) and how long
should be the gap between the feet?

There's nothing in the rules that says the feet can't be staggered on a
backstroke start.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

do you have any "standard" suggestion/hint/whatever to improve my turn
speed? I do the "standard" (is it standard?!?) turn: flags, 3 strokes,
turn from torso up to torso down, finish the stroke, turn, push against
the wall, 4 butterfly kicks, go..

Tuck your chin forcefully against your chest and keep it tucked
throughout the turn. Use the final armstroke (after you've rolled onto
your breast) to help drive you into the turn.

well, actually I do that... usually I follow with my glance the hand on
my final armstroke, because otherwise I become incoordinate and I loose
time, to follow your suggestion I see two chances:
1) increasing if is possible the speed of my arm in the final armstroke
2) shortening the corner of my elbow (then shortening the armstroke)...
in this case I must be sure to be sufficently near to the wall (maybe
making a bit longer the 3 final strokes after the flags)

which way do you suggest?

You might benefit from practicing your somersault more. Swim the length
of the pool, but every few strokes go into your flip, allowing yourself
to roll all the way over (i.e., 360 degrees). Keeping practicing your
flip until you can do it without lifting your head to glance at what the
arm is doing. (You may need to work on this for awhile, so it may not
help you in time for your next meet.)

Bob

Robert W. McAdams said:

At every meet I've been in, there has been a warmup time before the meet
during which they had one or two lanes designated as one-way lanes where
people could practice starts.

you lucky ;-)
maybe the level of the competitions I've attended wasn't so high (I was
master till last year)... but... there wasn't any line for starts and
turns... difficult job to search an empty hole ;-) but I'm talking about
Italy and Holland, actually I don't know about other countries or other
kind (or level) of meetings...

Quoted message said:

There's nothing in the rules that says the feet can't be staggered on a
backstroke start.

that's a great news, if I can go to train this evening I'll try some
staggering ;-)

Quoted message said:

You might benefit from practicing your somersault more. Swim the length of
the pool, but every few strokes go into your flip, allowing yourself to roll
all the way over (i.e., 360 degrees).

good exercise... turns far from the border... seems interesting: I can
try to improve the speed of the somersaults without the fear to enjure
myself!!!

Quoted message said:

Keeping practicing your flip until you
can do it without lifting your head to glance at what the arm is doing. (You
may need to work on this for awhile, so it may not help you in time for your
next meet.)

actually, I don't watch my hand, just I follow with the head (and the
body) the immaginary line who connect my glance and my hand beginning when
my arm are at 90 degrees (or 85) till it arrives to 180 (let's say
200)... otherwise I still think that the turn isn't properly
coordinate... am I wrong?
my idea was to shortening the stroke from 90 to 180 (in that gap I'm
more slow) in order to improve the speed... maybe I'm doing something
wrong... but I don't know what :-( and of course without watching me it is
pretty impossible for you to say something... maybe only lack of training,
let's try your previous suggestion (turns every 2 or 3 strokes)...

thanks again,
Major