stalled in induction

Patrick Grady said:

I have been following induction for 4 -5 days.

And therefore you have not stalled. A stall is defined as 4+ weeks
in ketosis without a new low and without a lost inch. You are now
23+ days from the possibility.

Dr A's definition isn't arbitrary. It's about what expectations are
and aren't realistic.

Time to put the scale away until you've completed Induction.
Weigh then and see how it worked.

"Patrick Grady" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I have been following induction for 4 -5 days. I have noticed zero change
in
the scale or inches. This is despite working out. I actually think I
gained
an inch on my waist. Here is a sample menu please post any suggestions.
breakfast: 2 eggs one slice of provolone
lunch: ham salad about 8oz made from no carb canned ham with 2 tbsp of
mayo
dinner: 6 - 8 oz ground chuck lean with 2 tbsp sour cream and 1/2 cup
mushrooms.
I am 198 looking to get down to around 162. I also want to note that while
I
was not expecting a huge drastic drop in weight so soon I was expecting
something it is kinda discouraging to notice no change in weight. I do
however notice that I have more energy and my heartburn has gone away.

Check that you are really getting only up-to-20 carbs a day. Are you
inputting your food into a program like fitday.com to be sure of the carb
count, fat, protein, etc.? Are you drinking water? 64 oz a day plus 8oz
for every 25 pounds overweight is what I follow as a consistent rule. For
right now, don't weight yourself for a week. And on the plus side, like you
said, you have more energy and no heartburn. So don't give up, it is
definately way too early for that!

Patrick Grady said:

I have been following induction for 4 -5 days. I have noticed zero change in
the scale or inches. This is despite working out. I actually think I gained
an inch on my waist. Here is a sample menu please post any suggestions.
breakfast: 2 eggs one slice of provolone
lunch: ham salad about 8oz made from no carb canned ham with 2 tbsp of mayo
dinner: 6 - 8 oz ground chuck lean with 2 tbsp sour cream and 1/2 cup
mushrooms.
I am 198 looking to get down to around 162. I also want to note that while I
was not expecting a huge drastic drop in weight so soon I was expecting
something it is kinda discouraging to notice no change in weight. I do
however notice that I have more energy and my heartburn has gone away.

When I started, I didn't lose weight for a while.

I was trying to cheat by trying to create very low carb bread..... I
would eat grapes and ignore their carb count..... and eventually I
stopped all of that and reread the Atkins book up to induction.

So I went along following the actual instructions and after a week or so
the scale showed a pretty good change.

Your mileage may vary.

Jim

--
1) Eat Till SATISFIED, Not STUFFED... Atkins repeated 9 times in the book
2) Exercise: It's Non-Negotiable..... Chapter 22 title, Atkins book
3) Don't Diet Without Supplimental Nutrients... Chapter 23 title, Atkins
book
4) A sensible eating plan, and follow it. (Atkins, Self Made or Other)

You guys are right about one thing I have to put the scale away. Thank you
for your responses.

"jbuch" <jbuch@CUT_HERE.revealed.net> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Patrick Grady said:

I have been following induction for 4 -5 days. I have noticed zero

change in

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the scale or inches. This is despite working out. I actually think I

gained

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

an inch on my waist. Here is a sample menu please post any suggestions.
breakfast: 2 eggs one slice of provolone
lunch: ham salad about 8oz made from no carb canned ham with 2 tbsp of

mayo

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

dinner: 6 - 8 oz ground chuck lean with 2 tbsp sour cream and 1/2 cup
mushrooms.
I am 198 looking to get down to around 162. I also want to note that

while I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

was not expecting a huge drastic drop in weight so soon I was expecting
something it is kinda discouraging to notice no change in weight. I do
however notice that I have more energy and my heartburn has gone away.

When I started, I didn't lose weight for a while.

I was trying to cheat by trying to create very low carb bread..... I
would eat grapes and ignore their carb count..... and eventually I
stopped all of that and reread the Atkins book up to induction.

So I went along following the actual instructions and after a week or so
the scale showed a pretty good change.

Your mileage may vary.

Jim

--
1) Eat Till SATISFIED, Not STUFFED... Atkins repeated 9 times in the book
2) Exercise: It's Non-Negotiable..... Chapter 22 title, Atkins book
3) Don't Diet Without Supplimental Nutrients... Chapter 23 title, Atkins
book
4) A sensible eating plan, and follow it. (Atkins, Self Made or Other)

Patrick Grady said:

You guys are right about one thing I have to put the scale away.

The time will come when you're emotionally ready for that. No hurry
this month, though. Different phase, different perspective.

The best way to use the scale is to have no emotional attachment
and ignore that day's reading. Put the number into some sort of
formula that gives you your trend. The trend is far more important
than today's number because today's number includes so much
random water retention bounce and the time scale for fat loss is
month to month not day to day. Let your mind get used to the
concept. Ease into it, expect that in a few months you'll be able
to step on the scale without a fuss, and in a few months you'll
actually be able to do it.

Barring the ability to view the scale as a tool without emotional
impact the deal is to use it when you finish Induction. Then
weekly while losing. Then gradually more often as you approach
goal. By the time you hit maintenance you'll need to become
accustomed to the water retention swing. On maintenance
"frequent" weighings are a key to keeping yourself from falling
off slowly. "Frequent" means different stuff to different folks. It's
never more than once per day, but some maintainers mean
daily others mean weekly. Anyways, that's the general landscape
along your future path so you know what to expect when.

"Patrick Grady" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have been following induction for 4 -5 days. I have noticed zero change
in
the scale or inches. This is despite working out. I actually think I
gained
an inch on my waist. Here is a sample menu please post any suggestions.
breakfast: 2 eggs one slice of provolone
lunch: ham salad about 8oz made from no carb canned ham with 2 tbsp of
mayo
dinner: 6 - 8 oz ground chuck lean with 2 tbsp sour cream and 1/2 cup
mushrooms.
I am 198 looking to get down to around 162. I also want to note that while
I
was not expecting a huge drastic drop in weight so soon I was expecting
something it is kinda discouraging to notice no change in weight. I do
however notice that I have more energy and my heartburn has gone away.

Try cutting the fat a bit and have a salad (low carb) at lunch.

IMHO, weight as many time as possible and find the minimum weight(try taking
everything off, release everything off your body and weight your body before
your very first meal/water).

Then compare your own daily minimum weight.

Some says, one pound of fat is equal to 3,500 calories.
1 lb = 454g time 9 kcal = 4095 kcal minus water weight

If you want to see result, you need to first, get your daily minimum weight
and second, control your calories intake.

Atkins Diet is best for super overweight people, since no one can force
themselves to eat fat without Carb's help. This cut down calories intake
dramatically.

As to slightly overweight(comparing to super overweight) people, we need to
tune Atkins Diet to fit our needs/conditions.

Atkins Diet solves blood sugar/insulin/hungry problem, but you won't lose
weight if eat more calories than you use.

Personally, I ignore carb and control Protein and let body get carb from
Protein if necessary(which means near zero carb).

On Mon, 13 Feb 2006 18:02:22 -0500, "Patrick Grady"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

=>I have been following induction for 4 -5 days. I have noticed zero change in
=>the scale or inches. This is despite working out. I actually think I gained
=>an inch on my waist. Here is a sample menu please post any suggestions.
=>breakfast: 2 eggs one slice of provolone
=>lunch: ham salad about 8oz made from no carb canned ham with 2 tbsp of mayo
=>dinner: 6 - 8 oz ground chuck lean with 2 tbsp sour cream and 1/2 cup
=>mushrooms.
=>I am 198 looking to get down to around 162. I also want to note that while I
=>was not expecting a huge drastic drop in weight so soon I was expecting
=>something it is kinda discouraging to notice no change in weight. I do
=>however notice that I have more energy and my heartburn has gone away.
=>
=>

Really cutting fat? In the book it says it is important to eat high fat,
since the ratio of fats to proteins are what is important.
"Joe the Aroma" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Patrick Grady" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have been following induction for 4 -5 days. I have noticed zero change
in
the scale or inches. This is despite working out. I actually think I
gained
an inch on my waist. Here is a sample menu please post any suggestions.
breakfast: 2 eggs one slice of provolone
lunch: ham salad about 8oz made from no carb canned ham with 2 tbsp of
mayo
dinner: 6 - 8 oz ground chuck lean with 2 tbsp sour cream and 1/2 cup
mushrooms.
I am 198 looking to get down to around 162. I also want to note that

while

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I
was not expecting a huge drastic drop in weight so soon I was expecting
something it is kinda discouraging to notice no change in weight. I do
however notice that I have more energy and my heartburn has gone away.

Try cutting the fat a bit and have a salad (low carb) at lunch.

Follow the book, not this guy. Furthermore, you are in induction so follow
the directions in the book and forget about your weight until induction is
over.

In news:[email hidden],
Patrick Grady <[email hidden]> stated
| Really cutting fat? In the book it says it is important to eat high
| fat, since the ratio of fats to proteins are what is important.

Patrick Grady said:

Really cutting fat?

No, not really cut the fat. Joe the Aroma isn't up on the chemisty
of how low carb works so he picks the most obvious solution.
When your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a
nail.

After Induction Atkins simply forbids over eating and under
eating. It works even if you don't believe it will work. There are
rare exceptions like any rule that makes claims about everyone
but it actually works for so many people who don't believe it
that your belief shouldn't enter into it.

During Induction it's a question of whether you still have the
carb cravings. If you do eat whatever it takes to get through.
If you don't both over eating and under eating are forbidden.

Quoted message said:

In the book it says it is important to eat high fat,
since the ratio of fats to proteins are what is important.

That's correct. Once you've found your ideal carb level in grams,
one thing to do is to stay at the same total calories and
gradually cut protein and increase fat. There's a minimum
number of protein grams you need to eat but until you hit that
bottom every bit of protein cut in favor of fat increases your loss
of stored fat.

Doesn't sound obvious, does it? The same total calories sounds
like it should give the same loss. Nope, obvious does not equal
true. Dietary fat indirectly causes glucogon release, and
glucogon is the hormone that pulls fat out of storage. The higher
the glucagon level in your blood the faster the loss and cutting
fat cuts glucagon production.

If you read DANDR very recently you'll remember that in the
chapter on Induction there's a warning that cutting fat will
slow your loss and derail your progress. The link between
dietary fat and blood glucagon levels is why.

Doug Freyburger said:

Patrick Grady said:

Really cutting fat?

No, not really cut the fat. Joe the Aroma isn't up on the chemisty
of how low carb works so he picks the most obvious solution.
When your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a
nail.

After Induction Atkins simply forbids over eating and under
eating. It works even if you don't believe it will work. There are
rare exceptions like any rule that makes claims about everyone
but it actually works for so many people who don't believe it
that your belief shouldn't enter into it.

During Induction it's a question of whether you still have the
carb cravings. If you do eat whatever it takes to get through.
If you don't both over eating and under eating are forbidden.

Quoted message said:

In the book it says it is important to eat high fat,
since the ratio of fats to proteins are what is important.

That's correct. Once you've found your ideal carb level in grams,
one thing to do is to stay at the same total calories and
gradually cut protein and increase fat. There's a minimum
number of protein grams you need to eat but until you hit that
bottom every bit of protein cut in favor of fat increases your loss
of stored fat.

And where in the Atkins book is all this tinkering with minimum number
of protein grams, cutting protein to increase fat, and increasing fat
intake resulting in increasing loss of stored fat?

Why do I suspect that once again Doug is presenting conjecture on his
part as if it were established fact straight from Atkins?

Quoted message said:

Doesn't sound obvious, does it? The same total calories sounds
like it should give the same loss. Nope, obvious does not equal
true. Dietary fat indirectly causes glucogon release, and
glucogon is the hormone that pulls fat out of storage. The higher
the glucagon level in your blood the faster the loss and cutting
fat cuts glucagon production.

If you read DANDR very recently you'll remember that in the
chapter on Induction there's a warning that cutting fat will
slow your loss and derail your progress. The link between
dietary fat and blood glucagon levels is why.

Very recently? The man has been dead for a couple years, hasn't he?

Quoted message said:

And where in the Atkins book is all this tinkering with minimum number
of protein grams, cutting protein to increase fat, and increasing fat
intake resulting in increasing loss of stored fat?

Dr A doesn't appear to have ever figured out the part
glucagon plays. He wrote that cutting fat hurts loss but
never why. That's something I've learned after reading
his books.

Quoted message said:

Why do I suspect that once again Doug is presenting conjecture on his
part as if it were established fact straight from Atkins?

Moron.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Doesn't sound obvious, does it? The same total calories sounds
like it should give the same loss. Nope, obvious does not equal
true. Dietary fat indirectly causes glucogon release, and
glucogon is the hormone that pulls fat out of storage. The higher
the glucagon level in your blood the faster the loss and cutting
fat cuts glucagon production.

Quoted message said:

If you read DANDR very recently you'll remember that in the
chapter on Induction there's a warning that cutting fat will
slow your loss and derail your progress. The link between
dietary fat and blood glucagon levels is why.

Very recently? The man has been dead for a couple years, hasn't he?

The OP has been dead for several years? Very strange that he
just posted to the thread "stalled in induction" then.

"Patrick Grady" <[email hidden]> wrote in

Quoted message said:

an inch on my waist. Here is a sample menu please post any suggestions.
breakfast: 2 eggs one slice of provolone
lunch: ham salad about 8oz made from no carb canned ham with 2 tbsp of
mayo
dinner: 6 - 8 oz ground chuck lean with 2 tbsp sour cream and 1/2 cup
mushrooms.

Patrick, I noticed when I was eating lean meat and turkey for lunch, nothing
happened until I started eating more fatty things!

BTW, lose the mushrooms too!

Here's my present system:

Breakfast: 2 fried eggs in a teaspoon of butter!

9AM coffee break: a hunk of cheese with a wheat cracker!

Lunch: Half a can of corned beef or slice of steak in low carb tortilla.

2PM break: Palm full of Almonds

5PM dinner, Broasted chicken with sour cream.

8PM snack: Peanut butter on one slice of low carb bread, plus lemon flavored
Green tea!

Best to eat small quantities constantly to keep your metabolism burning!
40 Minute walk every day!
Drink as much water as you can stand + coffee with 1/2 & 1/2 is OK too.
I used to use a ton of powdered cream in my coffee, no wonder I porked out!
;-)

LC again since 1/14/06
277/258/220

In article <[email hidden]>, patrickgrady1
@comcast.net says...

Quoted message said:

I have been following induction for 4 -5 days. I have noticed zero change in
the scale or inches. This is despite working out. I actually think I gained
an inch on my waist. Here is a sample menu please post any suggestions.
breakfast: 2 eggs one slice of provolone
lunch: ham salad about 8oz made from no carb canned ham with 2 tbsp of mayo
dinner: 6 - 8 oz ground chuck lean with 2 tbsp sour cream and 1/2 cup
mushrooms.

One thing I notice is that you didn't include any vegetables other than
a 1/2 cup of mushrooms. You should DEFINITELY add some (from the
induction list of acceptable foods). Are you taking any kind of fiber
supplement? How about multi-vitamins? A lack of fiber can lead to
constipation, which would also be reflected on the scale.

Quoted message said:

I am 198 looking to get down to around 162. I also want to note that while I
was not expecting a huge drastic drop in weight so soon I was expecting
something it is kinda discouraging to notice no change in weight. I do
however notice that I have more energy and my heartburn has gone away.

That's good! My heartburn disappeared, too, as well as some other
rather major digestive problems. Low carbing is worth it for that
ALONE!

You should have at least lost some water weight by now. If you haven't,
you may not be in ketosis. Some have commented that Atkins Nutritionals
managed to sneak some of their products into the newer induction menu.
Have you been eating any low-carb products such as muffins or bars?
They can be a hidden source of carbs since some people absorb many more
carbs than others when it comes to sugar alcohols.

That said, I only lost 7 lbs in the first couple of weeks and only a
couple more in the two weeks after that. We all lose at varying rates.
Just hang in there and you WILL see results!

--
Saffire
205/134/125
Atkins since 6/14/03
Progress photo: http://photos.yahoo.com/saffire333

*** This post originated in alt.support.diet.low-carb -- its appearance
in any other forum is deceptive and unauthorized. ***

Doug Freyburger said:

Quoted message said:

And where in the Atkins book is all this tinkering with minimum number
of protein grams, cutting protein to increase fat, and increasing fat
intake resulting in increasing loss of stored fat?

Dr A doesn't appear to have ever figured out the part
glucagon plays. He wrote that cutting fat hurts loss but
never why. That's something I've learned after reading
his books.

Quoted message said:

Why do I suspect that once again Doug is presenting conjecture on his
part as if it were established fact straight from Atkins?

Moron.

Doug,.you are the one that frequently gives personal opinion and tries
to make it look like established fact. Even worse, you constantly make
false attributions to Atkins. An example is the other thread here,
where you claimed Atkins warned against using Aspartame due to all the
reported health problems caused by it. And then you said he warned
against caffeine because it's addictive. Neither of those, as far as
I can tell, is true. The only issue I have seen him have with
aspartame is that he said from his clinical experience, it inhibits
weight loss in some people. And his issue with caffeine is that it
can cause swings in blood sugar.

If someone asked me for a refernce on those, I would gladly provide
the book and page. Yet, whenever you are asked for a page reference
to back up any of your claims, I have yet to see one.

And now you're here telling people to fiddle with the minimum number of
protein grams, cutting protein to increase fat, and implying that it
came from Atkins. The OP is eating eggs, cheese, mayo, ham salad.
Sounds like he's getting plenty of fat. Atkins didnt; tell people
there was a minimum or maximum amount of fat to eat. He provided a
simple plan that you want to complicate with you own conjectures
presented as fact or the writings of Atkins.

As for what Atkins knew about glucagon, I suspect it was a lot more
than you will ever know. Where did you get your medical degree and
clinical experience? And now you call me a moron?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Doesn't sound obvious, does it? The same total calories sounds
like it should give the same loss. Nope, obvious does not equal
true. Dietary fat indirectly causes glucogon release, and
glucogon is the hormone that pulls fat out of storage. The higher
the glucagon level in your blood the faster the loss and cutting
fat cuts glucagon production.

Quoted message said:

If you read DANDR very recently you'll remember that in the
chapter on Induction there's a warning that cutting fat will
slow your loss and derail your progress. The link between
dietary fat and blood glucagon levels is why.

Very recently? The man has been dead for a couple years, hasn't he?

The OP has been dead for several years? Very strange that he
just posted to the thread "stalled in induction" then.

It's Dr. Atkins that has been dead for several years, so the point,
which obviously went right over your head, is why do we need to read
DANDR very recently, as if it had changed?

DB said:

Here's my present system:

Breakfast: 2 fried eggs in a teaspoon of butter!

9AM coffee break: a hunk of cheese with a wheat cracker!

Lunch: Half a can of corned beef or slice of steak in low carb tortilla.

2PM break: Palm full of Almonds

5PM dinner, Broasted chicken with sour cream.

8PM snack: Peanut butter on one slice of low carb bread, plus lemon flavored
Green tea!

I don't think this is a good system because there's no veggies in this.
If I ate this way for a week, I'd *pounce* on the produce section in
my grocery. 😉

Yesterday, I had two meals. This is not typical, particularly, just
what I happened to eat:

breakfast:

about a half pound of a leftover chunk of smoked sausage I'd grilled
the previous night

about a cup of fried veggies (4 red bell peppers, 2 yellow bell
peppers, 1/2 large red onion, 1 white onion, 4 cloves garlic, all
stir-fried in about a half cup of olive oil - and there's lots leftover
for today too)

dinner:

plate of baby greens with a couple slices of tomatoes, a couple TB of
bacon ranch dressing and freshly cracked black pepper over all

scoop of egg salad (made with mayo, prepared mustard and paprika)

scoop of guacamole (made with avocado, lemon juice, tomato, onion and
garlic)

evening snack:

about 1/2 cup of honeydew melon

It was a low-protein day as I wasn't in a meat mood. And higher-carb
than most cause I was particularly craving veggies.

As noted, this isn't a typical day, and not recommended as a long-term
diet per se... but the *veggies* are important!

Patrick Grady said:

I have been following induction for 4 -5 days. I have noticed zero change in
the scale or inches. This is despite working out. I actually think I gained
an inch on my waist. Here is a sample menu please post any suggestions.
breakfast: 2 eggs one slice of provolone
lunch: ham salad about 8oz made from no carb canned ham with 2 tbsp of mayo
dinner: 6 - 8 oz ground chuck lean with 2 tbsp sour cream and 1/2 cup
mushrooms.
I am 198 looking to get down to around 162. I also want to note that while I
was not expecting a huge drastic drop in weight so soon I was expecting
something it is kinda discouraging to notice no change in weight. I do
however notice that I have more energy and my heartburn has gone away.

Atkins induction includes several cups of vegetables every day. Just
saying... it's pretty inaccurate to say you're following it with the
above sample menu.

Add a big green salad for lunch and some steamed veggies for dinner and
*then* this will be induction.

:: DB wrote:
::
::: Here's my present system:
:::
::: Breakfast: 2 fried eggs in a teaspoon of butter!
:::
::: 9AM coffee break: a hunk of cheese with a wheat cracker!

I find that things like cheese go extremely well with stuff like raw
broccoli.

:::
::: Lunch: Half a can of corned beef or slice of steak in low carb
::: tortilla.

Again, add 3 oz of raw broccoli instead of the tortilla.

:::
::: 2PM break: Palm full of Almonds
:::
::: 5PM dinner, Broasted chicken with sour cream.
:::
::: 8PM snack: Peanut butter on one slice of low carb bread, plus lemon
::: flavored Green tea!

Try your PB on some broccoli florets for a change. Or some celery sticks.

see below:

[email hidden] wrote:
::
:: I don't think this is a good system because there's no veggies in
:: this. If I ate this way for a week, I'd *pounce* on the produce
:: section in my grocery. 😉

Quoted message said:

Patrick Grady said:

I have been following induction for 4 -5 days. I have noticed zero change in
the scale or inches. This is despite working out. I actually think I gained
an inch on my waist. Here is a sample menu please post any suggestions.
breakfast: 2 eggs one slice of provolone
lunch: ham salad about 8oz made from no carb canned ham with 2 tbsp of mayo
dinner: 6 - 8 oz ground chuck lean with 2 tbsp sour cream and 1/2 cup
mushrooms.
I am 198 looking to get down to around 162. I also want to note that while I
was not expecting a huge drastic drop in weight so soon I was expecting
something it is kinda discouraging to notice no change in weight. I do
however notice that I have more energy and my heartburn has gone away.

Atkins induction includes several cups of vegetables every day. Just
saying... it's pretty inaccurate to say you're following it with the
above sample menu.

While you can have 2 to 3 cups of salad type vegetables and one cup of
many other vegetables on Atkins induction and I agree it's a good idea,
it's not strictly required.

Quoted message said:

Add a big green salad for lunch and some steamed veggies for dinner and
*then* this will be induction.

Per Atkins, that big salad better not be more than 3 cups, and only 2
if he's going to have a cup of other vegetables for dinner.