Kinder walk Sat 11th Feb

Chris Lawrence said:

the paths aren't clear at all.

Beyond the Pennine Way they're aren't any because its Access
Land. You can walk anywhere.

Nice bright cold day though. I went for a run and pulled my groin.
Ho hum.

Chris

In article <[email hidden]>,
Chris Lawrence <[email hidden]> writes

[snip]

Quoted message said:

A while back Chris also mentioned an unknown path from the 633m trig
point to Kinderlow End. It seems that I found it by accident and ended
up stuck and heading towards a cliff (see last photo at link below).

There is a good path going up/down Kinderlow End. It is a bit bouldery
either side of the path but I don't recall any cliffs. At the bottom of
the steep bit it joins the bridleway and footpath. It would have saved
you a lot of messing around if you had gone down that way and either
followed the bridleway back to your route or followed the path down the
hill via Tunstead Clough Farm back to Bowden Bridge

[snip]

Quoted message said:

A few signposts around the trig point would help immensely as
the paths aren't clear at all.

I hope you're kidding!

Quoted message said:

http://photos.holosys.co.uk/a/1961

Looks like good day out.

--

Dominic Sexton

In message <[email hidden]>,
Chris Lawrence <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

On Saturday just gone I went for a walk around Kinder Scout, on the
route which Chris Hill detailed a few weeks back (the one which starts
at the Bowden P&D car park). It was cloudy and fairly icy in places,
especially going up William Clough. At the top near Mill Hill it was
freezing with fine ice crystals blowing around, and the hat and gloves
had to come out. There were a lot of walkers up on the Pennine Way, all
similarly hatted and gloved up, and a few dogs who seemed to be loving
it.

A while back Chris also mentioned an unknown path from the 633m trig
point to Kinderlow End. It seems that I found it by accident and ended
up stuck and heading towards a cliff (see last photo at link below).

Looking at that map, I'd say you definitely did find it.

Quoted message said:

Rather than go all the way back to the trig point I tried heading south
and quickly came across a fence which stretched east/west as far as I
could see, so I decided to head back east along it, hoping to catch the
Pennine Way again. However the grass was that horrible long stuff which
compresses and which you get your feet caught under as you try and walk.

It was taking ages and there were a few horned beasties watching me
intently, so I turned south and tried to find a way out, eventually
finding a gate over the stone wall and barbed wire at the side of Oaken
Clough. A few signposts around the trig point would help immensely as
the paths aren't clear at all.

Agreed, it really isn't clear at all.

Quoted message said:

In the end the sun came out when I was
almost finished. This was my first walk for over a year and it was good
to get back out and just be free of four walls for a while. Some pics
at the link below.

http://photos.holosys.co.uk/a/1961

A recently rebuilt sheepwash on the left-hand side of;

http://photos.holosys.co.uk/p/50124

This bit;

http://photos.holosys.co.uk/p/50125

is a nice warm-up for the big climbs ahead.

I've got pictures somewhere of this;

http://photos.holosys.co.uk/p/50127

being built. Late Victorian era - steam-powered machinery and *lots* of
manpower. Impressive.

In this shot;

http://photos.holosys.co.uk/p/50138

is that ice on the ground?
--
Chris Hill

In message <[email hidden]>, Dominic Sexton
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
Chris Lawrence <[email hidden]> writes

[snip]

Quoted message said:

A while back Chris also mentioned an unknown path from the 633m trig
point to Kinderlow End. It seems that I found it by accident and ended
up stuck and heading towards a cliff (see last photo at link below).

There is a good path going up/down Kinderlow End. It is a bit bouldery
either side of the path but I don't recall any cliffs.

Chris may have been using artistic licence a little in his description,
but it *is* very steep and something of an unpleasant surprise if you're
not expecting it. I wouldn't like to make that descent in ice or snow.

Quoted message said:

At the bottom of the steep bit it joins the bridleway and footpath. It
would have saved you a lot of messing around if you had gone down that
way and either followed the bridleway back to your route or followed
the path down the hill via Tunstead Clough Farm back to Bowden Bridge

[snip]

Quoted message said:

A few signposts around the trig point would help immensely as
the paths aren't clear at all.

I hope you're kidding!

No - it's fair comment. You only have to look at the number of
footprints going to and from the trig point in many different directions
to see that it obviously confuses a lot of people. There are many places
on that route where the path pretty much vanishes and the only safe
course is to stick close to the edge.
--
Chris Hill

In article <[email hidden]>, Chris Hill
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

In message <[email hidden]>, Dominic Sexton
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
Chris Lawrence <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

A few signposts around the trig point would help immensely as
the paths aren't clear at all.

I hope you're kidding!

No - it's fair comment.

Don't be silly - signposts on the top (ish) of Kinder! One would be too
many there but 'signposts' boggle.

Where else would you put them???

--

Dominic Sexton

Chris Gilbert said:

Nice bright cold day though. I went for a run and pulled my groin.
Ho hum.

Eek. How did you do that? Has it unpulled itself now? Stepping down
from a couple of the higher boulders just after the Downfall was a near
groin-pulling experience.

--
Chris

Dominic Sexton said:

[snip]

Quoted message said:

A while back Chris also mentioned an unknown path from the 633m trig
point to Kinderlow End. It seems that I found it by accident and ended
up stuck and heading towards a cliff (see last photo at link below).

There is a good path going up/down Kinderlow End.

Are you sure? From the trig point there are no paths at all that I
could see, and I took a careful compass bearing to head in the right
direction. I then picked up a paved path which swung me to the right
towards Kinderlow End, but long before it got there it stopped at a
collection of rocks, with no obvious way to go from there. It was then
that I took a GPS fix and found that I'd gone the wrong way.

Rather than go all the way back, I decided to press on because the
ground didn't seem that steep. But as I went further towards Kinderlow
End, the ground got steeper and steeper. The OS map suggests that it
gets steeper than William Clough, and the ground was very preciarious
underfoot, with ice and that long, compressible grass everywhere. I
didn't fancy putting a foot wrong so turned south instead.

Then I hit the fence (see below) and rather than head west and end the
walk prematurely I headed east again, trying to pick up the Pennine Way
south of the trig point. You can see that I quickly turn south as well
because the ground was so difficult underfoot, and eventually find my
way out on to Oaken Clough, so overall not a bad compromise.

I think Chris's reference to the unknown path is that it's not on the OS
map at all. At least some of it was paved so I wonder why it's not
there?

Quoted message said:

It is a bit bouldery either side of the path but I don't recall any
cliffs. At the bottom of the steep bit it joins the bridleway and
footpath. It would have saved you a lot of messing around if you had
gone down that way and either followed the bridleway back to your
route or followed the path down the hill via Tunstead Clough Farm back
to Bowden Bridge

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

A few signposts around the trig point would help immensely as
the paths aren't clear at all.

I hope you're kidding!

Not at all! Since the ground is so open and the OS map only appears to
have the Pennine Way marked on it, it's not clear that any actual path
you pick up is not the Pennine Way, especially given the way that paths
twist around to follow the terrain. I saw a couple of blokes heading
off towards the left, and in retrospect they must have been going the
way that I intended to, but I saw no path between me and them, just open
ground.

Quoted message said:

Looks like good day out.

I was looking forward to getting out the office and house for a while,
and it didn't disappoint.

(the fence referenced above - http://photos.holosys.co.uk/p/50144)

--
Chris

On Tue, 14 Feb 2006, Chris Hill wrote:

[...]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

A while back Chris also mentioned an unknown path from the 633m trig
point to Kinderlow End. It seems that I found it by accident and ended
up stuck and heading towards a cliff (see last photo at link below).

Looking at that map, I'd say you definitely did find it.

Now if OS would just add it, that'd be nice.

Quoted message said:

A recently rebuilt sheepwash on the left-hand side of;

Cheers, I've added a comment to that photo.

Quoted message said:

This bit;

http://photos.holosys.co.uk/p/50125

is a nice warm-up for the big climbs ahead.

Yes, there's pretty much no more downhill parts until you're on the
Pennine Way.

Quoted message said:

I've got pictures somewhere of this;

http://photos.holosys.co.uk/p/50127

being built. Late Victorian era - steam-powered machinery and *lots* of
manpower. Impressive.

Do you know what it's called? I'd like to link to some more info/pics
if you have any? It's crazy to think that later on you'll be on that
ridge in the background... You can also see another shot of this from
that ridge http://photos.holosys.co.uk/p/50140 (right across on the far
side if you look carefully, and that's a 3x zoomed in shot). Click 'Raw
Image' for the full sized pics, BTW.

Quoted message said:

In this shot;

http://photos.holosys.co.uk/p/50138

is that ice on the ground?

Yes, around two thirds of the way up William Clough there were small ice
crystals floating around, almost like fine sleet. At the top, and all
the way down that right hand side leg, the ice was really heavy in the
air and I could feel them hitting my head - was very glad that I bought
the hat with me! You can see the effect in
http://photos.holosys.co.uk/p/50133 and 50134.

--
Chris

The message <[email hidden]>
from Chris Lawrence <[email hidden]> contains these words:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

A few signposts around the trig point would help immensely as
the paths aren't clear at all.

I hope you're kidding!

Quoted message said:

Not at all!

I think you will find what you are looking for at SE074587. :-)

--
Roger Chapman

In article <[email hidden]>,
Chris Lawrence <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Dominic Sexton said:

[snip]

Quoted message said:

A while back Chris also mentioned an unknown path from the 633m trig
point to Kinderlow End. It seems that I found it by accident and ended
up stuck and heading towards a cliff (see last photo at link below).

There is a good path going up/down Kinderlow End.

Are you sure?

Yes - I have been up and down it many times. It is not a huge wide
motorway it is more like a winding staircase weaving its way between
small boulders. It is slightly to the north of the small spur at the end
of the ridge.

Quoted message said:

But as I went further towards Kinderlow
End, the ground got steeper and steeper. The OS map suggests that it
gets steeper than William Clough

It does, for about 30-40m vertical, but William Clough isn't exactly
steep. On your way down to Oaken Clough you crossed ground that is
almost as steep as the steepest part of the descent from Kinderlow End
but being a concave slope rather than the convex of the End it would
have felt more comfortable and less exposed.

Quoted message said:

, and the ground was very preciarious
underfoot, with ice and that long, compressible grass everywhere. I
didn't fancy putting a foot wrong so turned south instead.

I wasn't there on the day so can't comment on conditions. I also know
things can often appear worse in descent and not knowing that there was
a good path would not have encouraged you to descend that way. I'm not
criticising your decision but just wanted to point out the path being
there.

--

Dominic Sexton

"Dominic Sexton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Chris Hill
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

In message <[email hidden]>, Dominic Sexton
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
Chris Lawrence <[email hidden]> writes
> A few signposts around the trig point would help immensely as
>the paths aren't clear at all.

I hope you're kidding!

No - it's fair comment.

Don't be silly - signposts on the top (ish) of Kinder! One would be too
many there but 'signposts' boggle.

Where else would you put them???

I always thought that no signposts and, to a large extent, no paths, was
pretty much the point of Kinder. I've gone round in unintended circles a
time or two. It's character building.

Roy.