3 Trails

Quoted message said:

3 trail races on 3 consecutive weekends.

This is how I race Tony, active and often...this is standard for me.

Uh Lance, I thought you said it's impossible to "race" 2 consecutive
weekends, much less 3. So don't you mean you'll not be really "racing"
but rather just jogging?

--
- The Trailrunner

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Trails of the Diablo Valley
*Running - Hiking - Nature*
http://www.geocities.com/yosemite/trails/6016/

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Quoted message said:

Tony S....this is exactly what you claim is "your thing"....right?
"Leatherman's Loop"... 2 River Crossings, a Quarry Climb, etc. and a
whole page dedicated to articles on the rigors of the trail race. The
Leatherman's Loop. It's simple for you to get to as well.

I've done this race a few times. This has a few bumps some usual mud but
this nothing more than a 6 MILE XC run. If you holding this up as an
example of difficult or trail running then you had best start here with
this wussy race and work your way up to something real.

-DF

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Quoted message said:

Tony S....this is exactly what you claim is "your thing"....right?
"Leatherman's Loop"... 2 River Crossings, a Quarry Climb, etc. and a
whole page dedicated to articles on the rigors of the trail race. The
Leatherman's Loop. It's simple for you to get to as well.

Nope, actually orienteering used to be my thing. Mud isn't necessarily my
thing either; it's mountain trails that I like. Racing, per se, isn't my
thing. It's great you're going to run some trail races - that's finally
showing some respect to the escarpment trail, something you've been lacking
until now.

Quoted message said:

I'm paid & registered Tony. I'll be there.
http://www.leathermansloop.org/

Have fun. Pound Ridge is one spot where we used to do orienteering meets. I
think they're back on there this year. Don't know about the footing on that
particular trail, but looks like a fun course - if you like 10ks.

Quoted message said:

I'm also in Mudders & Grunters on April 2. I'm paid & registered Tony.
http://www.runner.org/mg.htm

And in between these events Tony?....I'm going to run the Mt. Penn
Mudfest 15K. That's right...I am paid and registered for that race
too.

3 trail races on 3 consecutive weekends. All in April and yes Tony, I
am going to be "tax'ing your ass". (for the foreign
contingent...April is tax month in the USA, that was a joke..and a
pretty good one, I guarantee you Doug got it and laughed).

This is how I race Tony, active and often...this is standard for me.
Okay, you were not able to address why you've never cut 5K times on
trails as I have....well here's your chance to hang w/me Tony...in real
life...and only 60 days away.

Those aforementioned 5k's are cross-country races right? Never been my
thing, and nope, I don't want to race on consecutive weekends, that would
get in the way of my long-run training.

Quoted message said:

Do you think I would show up at Doug's race and not be versed in
quarrys, rivers, etc.? You grossly underestimate me and you don't
know what it means to compete.

There's no quarrys or rivers to cross on the escarpment trail.

Quoted message said:

Can you race 3 weekends in a row Tony? I'm in these races ....and I
am still in recovery from injury...but even despite that...you are not
my peer or competition in trails. You just are not.

Part 1 - Asked and answered. Part II - answered in numerous other threads:
namely that you would beat me at most trail races.

Quoted message said:

Don't talk, don't make excuses, do what I've done....go on line and
make 3 registrations. And Tony...there's more coming in May.

We'll see, I might do a few longer ones.

Quoted message said:

Business Name: Leatherman Harriers (The recipient of this payment is
Verified)
Email: [email hidden]
Shopping Cart Payment Sent (ID # XXXXXXXXXXXXXX)
Qty Item Options Price
1 2006 Pre-Race Registration Fee $18.00 USD Amount $18.00 USD

Hope you enjoy them, after all, that's why people do them.

-Tony

- jeez tony. the Leatherman's 10K trail race is in your own backyard
for crissakes...and you can't step up for a weekend race? it's just a
damn race tony.....

ya know doug you throw around that word "wussy" a whole lot....for a
guy that runs a 5:30+ 50K zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. I always need to
remind you...I know plenty of guys older than you that are all about
speed....and want nothing to do with your slow-ass so-called "races"
where you jog for 5 and 6 hours. In fact they hate it.

tell me doug....are there any respectable middle distance trail races
on the east coast? i understand you're "anit-awareness of pace, and
"anti-speed" and "pro slow crawl".

i just registered for 3 what I was lead to believe were respectable
trail races and of course you diss them. why? Matt Downin raced in
Mudders & Grunters last year....but I suppose you don't know who that
is...do you? You know Geritol...Rogaine....you know Viagra....but you
don't know Matt Downin...do you?

Seriously Doug...do you ever race middle distance trails? If not, why
not? What are some respectable middle disance trail races on the East
coast. I thought I had selected some.....and I think I have, I just
think you're anti anything that's not a slow jogging
ulta....however..perhaps I am wrong. Now the truth is I believe it's
that you've never been a top runner that creates your animosity toward
races less than 50K. But..perhaps I am wrong. Do tell.

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Quoted message said:

- jeez tony. the Leatherman's 10K trail race is in your own backyard
for crissakes...and you can't step up for a weekend race? it's just a
damn race tony.....

100 bucks boy. The offer still stands if you want to bet on yourself versus
Tony at Escarpment. Just say the word.

Quoted message said:

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Quoted message said:

ya know doug you throw around that word "wussy" a whole lot...

You're right a bit too much but it is so fiting. Self esteem a little
tweaked? 😉

..for a

Quoted message said:

guy that runs a 5:30+ 50K zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

You caught me. Wait till this year. I plan to run about 6 hours. I'm so
ashamed, please don't tell my mother or anyone on r.r.

Quoted message said:

I always need to
remind you...I know plenty of guys older than you that are all about
speed....and want nothing to do with your slow-ass so-called "races"
where you jog for 5 and 6 hours. In fact they hate it.

Isn't it grand that running has such diversification?

Quoted message said:

tell me doug....are there any respectable middle distance trail races
on the east coast? i understand you're "anit-awareness of pace, and
"anti-speed" and "pro slow crawl".

What are you calling "middle distance" the leatherman 6 mile? To me the
escarpment is middle distance, so try and be specific.

Quoted message said:

i just registered for 3 what I was lead to believe were respectable
trail races and of course you diss them. why?

Because your coming off a tirade about what great a trail runner when in
effect you have little experience. Actually these are good races for
you. Start off with these nice short runs and build slowly. The fact
that you signed up for all three does not impress me. In fact with your
injury history it shows poor judgement. But.....

Quoted message said:

but you don't know Matt Downin...do you?

Nope but I did look him up and is a very good young runner with lots of
talent. Shall we swap names of people that we don't know?

Quoted message said:

Seriously Doug...do you ever race middle distance trails? If not, why
not?

For the same reason I don't run many 5 and 10k road races - I don't care
for short races. I have strength and average speed and I find the
longer races give me greater pleasure. Have you run any 50k's, 50 milers
or 100's? If not why not? I also have over two dozen marathons to
include 9 or 10 Boston's most in the 3:0n to 3:1N. All run in my late
40's when sub 3:10 was my qualifying time for the first 4-5 and then
they gave me another 5 minutes and saved my ass. FWIW, my 5k PR is
18:30 and 10K 38:4n. As I said average speed. I soon discovered trails
and that I could hold pace for hours on end. So yes, I'm a plodder that
loves the longer distances. I respect speed and distance but you can't
seen to come to grips with distance. I'm not sure you have come to
grips with either, at least yet. I'm not sure you like youself but
that's a question for your shrink.

Quoted message said:

Now the truth is I believe it's
that you've never been a top runner
that creates your animosity toward
races less than 50K. But..perhaps I am wrong. Do tell.

No animosity at all toward short races. Been there done those and
discovered I prefer longer events.

Get tired of playing the Big [censored] contest with Tony and Donovan and now
you want to tilt at me? Nice try but no cigar. The easiest way to get
out of this hole you keep digging, is to stop trying to convince us that
you are a running stud by degrading everyone else. It's an obvious and
immature tactic and why you always have knots in your shorts. By the
way, you forgot to weave the race card in this discussion, how
disappointing. At least with a good muddy trail race you can't tell
race.

-DF

doug, this all got started when tony s. opted out of the blue to race
against me, not the field, and wager money in your race. i did not
initiate this. are you clear on that doug? Tony S initiated this
entire "Race / Bet with Money on the line". Do you accept that fact
Doug? That's what happend.
That's the fact doug. I notice I don't see you criticize Tony S for
coming on the NG and daring another NG member to a race for money.

Donovan & I have mixed it up on this NG...lots of times but we have
never ever suggested racing with money on the line. Do you understand
that Doug?...Donnie & I have never "gone there" (with AG scoring on the
line). Why? I have never been motivated to cross that line
w/Donnie....ever...and we'll race a dozen times against each other a
year for sure. Why is it that no one, not a single person on this NG
has said something critical about the very nature of Tony's dare,
bet/wager?

Why and how is Tony S "exempted" from criticism...for picking out
someone on the NG and daring to race them for money? The very nature
of Tony's behavior merits exploring and probing...no? Can anyone on
this NG recall another person ever doing such a thing?

It is "White Privilege" that suppresses expression of opinion of Tony's
action. You are all granting, extending, and endearing to Tony "White
Privilege", whether you are aware of it or not. Racism works in subtle
ways...and this is just one of them. No, you're not racist, you
though are guitly of endearing white privilege to Tony. You white
guys are not willing to examine Tony's elected conduct and run it
through the ringer.

Ask yourselves this. What if you had no knowlege of the person (Tony),
and the person dared (me) in this scenario...if you were blind of the
people involved...and simply knew one of them came out on the NG and
dared the other in a race for money. What would you think? What
Tony did is very very "Anti-Doug". We all know that. But Doug and
all of you have exempted from admonishing Tony completely. Not a
single word of criticism about what he's done. That's white privilege.
Complete and total exemption from criticism of something that's never
been done before.

I don't expect many of you to take a deep breath and look at yourselves
in the mirror and say, "ya know....no one ever has dared another person
on this ng to race for money....this is something different...[and
express opinion] on the very act of it.

Doug, I know you to be a fair & honest man (with an ultra bias and
anti-speed thing). Fair enough. In doesn't really matter what I've
said before the fact....why is it that you have not expressed opinion
about Tony's dare and wager with money? You've been oh so quick to
crack down on me and Donovan for even discussing pro-speed, big [censored]
contest, etc. etc.

Now here...a NG participant crosses a line never before broached that
has "big [censored] contest" written all over it....the ultimate of big [censored]
contest communication ever expressed...on this ng....and you're silent
on it? Tony's exempted from expression of judgment of his
groundbreaking actions.

Now I know you to be a fair and very decent man. Can you address your
exempting from commenting on Tony's action? I think you'll reach and
search and try to justify what he's done in some form or
fashion....when in truth....you should simply say, "it's not consistent
with what you believe and would like to foster within this ng, running,
and this event". <- That's the Doug I know.

Curious Doug...will you step up and say how you really feel about what
Tony elected to do?

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Quoted message said:

doug, this all got started when tony s. opted out of the blue to race
against me, not the field, and wager money in your race. i did not
initiate this. are you clear on that doug?

Way to much time spent on this. You started all this with the race was a
cake walk, extrapolating road time to trails and playing the black(you
issue never anyone elses) stud runner. When you take such a childish
posture the money issue then got started. But as usual to you never know
when to zip it and so it has taken it's current shape.

Quoted message said:

Tony S initiated this
entire "Race / Bet with Money on the line". Do you accept that fact
Doug?

He was expressing his confidence knowing full well that you are a
faster runner on roads because the Escarpment and races of those ilk are
in a different world. You of course let your mouth run off again and you
got the steamroller effect.

Quoted message said:

That's the fact doug. I notice I don't see you criticize Tony S for
coming on the NG and daring another NG member to a race for money.

Doesn't make a [censored] to me.

Quoted message said:

Donovan & I have mixed it up on this NG...lots of times but we have
never ever suggested racing with money on the line.

You to smart to bet with him unless you get extra minutes for tonage,
shoe size and eye color.

Quoted message said:

It is "White Privilege" that suppresses expression of opinion of
Tony's
action.

There's my Lance bad whitey, honkie, cracker making you run slow and
trash talk. I knew you could not get through two consecutive posts
without this charade. I enjoy you predictability.

Quoted message said:

Ask yourselves this. What if you had no knowlege of the person
(Tony),
and the person dared (me) in this scenario...if you were blind of the
people involved...and simply knew one of them came out on the NG and
dared the other in a race for money. What would you think?

I would react no differently. I see his times and you don't know [censored]
ablut this race so unless you make some serious changes my odds are on
Tony. Since I did run once with Tony and hope swe hook up again, I saw
his strength and to let you know that he is for real. Did you shut up,
nope, more juvenile posturing.

It humorous that you wallow in persecution.

Quoted message said:

Doug, I know you to be a fair & honest man (with an ultra bias and
anti-speed thing).

Some like fast, some distance and some like Dan do both. Different
strokes.

Quoted message said:

Curious Doug...will you step up and say how you really feel about what
Tony elected to do?

Money or not, show up at the Escarpment, especially without ever
stepping foot on that trail, or something close in difficulty, your ass
in grass and Tony in the lawn mower.

Let it die. You siad you were going to shut up but you just can't. 😉

-DF

Doug, you 100% avoided my question. Is what Tony did consistent
with what you believe and would like to foster within this ng, running,

and this event?

You don't want to have to address how you really feel about Tony's
actions do you? Can't publicly admonish Tony...can you? You have no
problem characterizing things Donovan says and calling him a redliner,
etc...you characerize me...but Tony....and his actions?

What's up with that Doug? No one's ever done that? Can you address
how Tony's actions. Who's (to use your words) the "wussy"? I say the
man, you, unable to come out and be truthful. Is what Tony did
consistent with what you believe and would like to foster within this
ng, running, and this event?

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Quoted message said:

Doug, you 100% avoided my question. Is what Tony did consistent
with what you believe and would like to foster within this ng, running,

and this event?

You don't want to have to address how you really feel about Tony's
actions do you? Can't publicly admonish Tony...can you? You have no
problem characterizing things Donovan says and calling him a redliner,
etc...you characerize me...but Tony....and his actions?

What's up with that Doug? No one's ever done that? Can you address
how Tony's actions. Who's (to use your words) the "wussy"? I say the
man, you, unable to come out and be truthful. Is what Tony did
consistent with what you believe and would like to foster within this
ng, running, and this event?

Lance you're turning into a super-troll. If, my god!, I've broken some NG
etiquette, answering your completely overblown rhetoric with a chump-change
challenge, buried deep in an obscure thread, designed to actually get you to
an event of the type you've been trashing for years, because that would be
interesting in and of itself - then I oh so sincerely appologize and I ask
for forgiveness from the disturbed regulars, and seek advice on how to avoid
such blunders in the future from Ozzie and the like!

On the other hand, to my knowledge, I've never attacked you personally, and
I admire, as many do, the way you go for it when you race. Your late
obsession with me and your attempts to belittle me as a runner is getting
tiresome, and is far out of proportion with the comments I've made about
you, in which I've always attempted to be respectful. It is you, not me, who
has shown bad form in this NG.

-Tony

Quoted message said:

Doug, you 100% avoided my question. Is what Tony did consistent
with what you believe and would like to foster within this ng, running,

and this event?

Here's where your pirouetting started, around 15th January, with your
comment about a race not been chipped.

I suppose it was a humorous comment on your part, but you didn't make it
very clear and your previous stance on long trail races made it look
perfectly serious. Your comment hasn't fostered running AFAICT so why
challenge Doug about Tony on that?

Tony reacted to your post with a challenge to show up at the Escarpment
Trail event and race him but there was no real money mentioned at this
point.

=============================

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Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'll be there at the finish line to tear of your number

__

doug?....why would you do that?.....wait a minute....you're not hinting
to me....you're not really suggesting.......are you telling me these
races are not chipped? not even winningtime? uuuurrrrrrgggghhhhhhh!

http://escarpmenttrail.com/

This race might take some chips out of your leg bones, have you eating
woodchips after face-planting, and is sure to knock that chip off your
shoulder...

Ok Lance, you're much faster than me on roads, and on paper you should be
able to easily beat me in virtually any race, but even on my favorite
terrain? We're both starting our training again after time off with 27
weeks
to go before this race. I'll wager that I can beat you at escarpment this
year.

-Tony

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Quoted message said:

Doug, you 100% avoided my question.

The topic is dead, muerto, mort! See your shrink!

-DF

"Doug Freese" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Doug, you 100% avoided my question.

The topic is dead, muerto, mort! See your shrink!

-DF

Now it is time to see if Lance belongs in the rec.running hall of fame for
stirring the pot. Current members include the late Abbhay, Indy Runner,
Indy's Russian graduate student sidekick (can't remember his name), Jeff
Bigham, and Jenn i fer (and her new baby I suppose). Mike Tennant and Ozzie
are too nice and Doug is too old to be considered and both Mike and Doug are
screwed up politically anyway.

I nominate Lance to join the rec.running hall of fame for his ability to
"liven" things up recently..

Quoted message said:

Marcus said:

"Doug Freese" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Doug, you 100% avoided my question.

The topic is dead, muerto, mort! See your shrink!

-DF

Now it is time to see if Lance belongs in the rec.running hall of fame for
stirring the pot. Current members include the late Abbhay, Indy Runner,
Indy's Russian graduate student sidekick (can't remember his name), Jeff
Bigham, and Jenn i fer (and her new baby I suppose).

How about "Roger Hunter" ?

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Donovan Rebbechi said:

How about "Roger Hunter" ?

He's a has been.

"Donovan Rebbechi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Marcus said:

"Doug Freese" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
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> Doug, you 100% avoided my question.

The topic is dead, muerto, mort! See your shrink!

-DF

Now it is time to see if Lance belongs in the rec.running hall of fame

for

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

stirring the pot. Current members include the late Abbhay, Indy Runner,
Indy's Russian graduate student sidekick (can't remember his name), Jeff
Bigham, and Jenn i fer (and her new baby I suppose).

How about "Roger Hunter" ?

Trolls don't count.

Quoted message said:

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

"Marcus" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> How about "Roger
Hunter" ?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Trolls don't count.

But Roger was good troll.

-DF

On Sun, 05 Feb 2006 04:06:34 GMT, "Doug Freese" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

But Roger was good troll.

Oxymoron