Tire recommendation

Larry Coon said:

I'm looking for a recommendation on a 700x23C road
tire. After riding sew-ups all of my adult life, I
switched to clincers with my latest bike. It (a
Trek OCLV) came with Bontrager X-Lites, but I really
didn't like their rolling resistance. I switched to
Michelin Pro Races, but as the raspberry on my hip
will attest, they don't exactly have the best
cornering traction, nor do they wear all that well.

I then switched to Conti GP-3000's. These tires are
apparently prone to sidewall failures if you do so
much as breathe on them, and I've now lost two tires
to sidewall problems (one after only 100 miles).

So I'm looking for a low-rolling-resistance, tight-
cornering, long-wearing, no-sidewall-failures clincer,
or at least the closest approximation. Anybody have
any suggestions?

(Note: I haven't ridden the latest generation of either
the Michelin (Pro2 Race) or Conti (GP-4000), and I'm
not eager to try either unless they've made significant
improvements in their achilles heels).

Hmmm. I'm just about to order some new tires for my as-yet-super-secret new
rig, and it's between Pro2 Races and Vittoria Open Corsas. I'm leaning
(oh-oh) toward the Michelins as they're both lighter AND cheaper -- and I
liked the "regular" (?) Pro Races I tried before. (But I also love my
Vittoria Rubino Pros, so maybe the Corsas will please me as well.) Ain't a
huge fan of the Veloflex Paves I've had on the "light wheels" -- puncture
way too easily and don't "feel" all that fast. (Couldn't be the rider, of
course!)

Bill "damn cursed indecision" S.

Larry Coon said:

I'm looking for a recommendation on a 700x23C road
tire. After riding sew-ups all of my adult life, I
switched to clincers with my latest bike. It (a
Trek OCLV) came with Bontrager X-Lites, but I really
didn't like their rolling resistance. I switched to
Michelin Pro Races, but as the raspberry on my hip
will attest, they don't exactly have the best
cornering traction, nor do they wear all that well.

I then switched to Conti GP-3000's. These tires are
apparently prone to sidewall failures if you do so
much as breathe on them, and I've now lost two tires
to sidewall problems (one after only 100 miles).

So I'm looking for a low-rolling-resistance, tight-
cornering, long-wearing, no-sidewall-failures clincer,
or at least the closest approximation. Anybody have
any suggestions?

(Note: I haven't ridden the latest generation of either
the Michelin (Pro2 Race) or Conti (GP-4000), and I'm
not eager to try either unless they've made significant
improvements in their achilles heels).

I still believe that the Michelin Pro2 Race is the best compromise
despite your experience.

Lou
--
Posted by news://news.nb.nu

Larry Coon said:

I'm looking for a recommendation on a 700x23C road
tire. After riding sew-ups all of my adult life, I
switched to clincers with my latest bike. It (a
Trek OCLV) came with Bontrager X-Lites, but I really
didn't like their rolling resistance. I switched to
Michelin Pro Races, but as the raspberry on my hip
will attest, they don't exactly have the best
cornering traction, nor do they wear all that well.

I then switched to Conti GP-3000's. These tires are
apparently prone to sidewall failures if you do so
much as breathe on them, and I've now lost two tires
to sidewall problems (one after only 100 miles).

The Continental Grand Prix 4 Season or something like that is using
Continental's reinforced sidewall. As found on their wire beaded
Gatorskin Dura Skin tires. The 4 Season is kevlar bead. I've used the
Gatorskin model and it wears very well. Sidewalls are almost
impervious to anything. This tire would satisfy the no sidewall
failures and long wearing requirements you list below.

Quoted message said:

So I'm looking for a low-rolling-resistance, tight-
cornering, long-wearing, no-sidewall-failures clincer,
or at least the closest approximation. Anybody have
any suggestions?

(Note: I haven't ridden the latest generation of either
the Michelin (Pro2 Race) or Conti (GP-4000), and I'm
not eager to try either unless they've made significant
improvements in their achilles heels).

Larry Coon
University of California

Larry Coon said:

So I'm looking for a low-rolling-resistance, tight-
cornering, long-wearing, no-sidewall-failures clincer,
or at least the closest approximation. Anybody have
any suggestions?

Of course, you won't find the best of all worlds in one tire. I'll go
along with Lou that the Pro2 is probably your best compromise if you
want a "racing" tire. If you want longer life you could try a Carbon or
Megamium (both Michelin).

Surprised that that the cornering traction was poor with the Pro...
what pressure were you running?

24 Jan 2006 12:20:43 -0800, <[email hidden]> skrev:

Quoted message said:

Larry Coon said:

I'm looking for a recommendation on a 700x23C road
tire. After riding sew-ups all of my adult life, I
switched to clincers with my latest bike. It (a
Trek OCLV) came with Bontrager X-Lites, but I really
didn't like their rolling resistance. I switched to
Michelin Pro Races, but as the raspberry on my hip
will attest, they don't exactly have the best
cornering traction, nor do they wear all that well.

I then switched to Conti GP-3000's. These tires are
apparently prone to sidewall failures if you do so
much as breathe on them, and I've now lost two tires
to sidewall problems (one after only 100 miles).

The Continental Grand Prix 4 Season or something like that is using
Continental's reinforced sidewall. As found on their wire beaded
Gatorskin Dura Skin tires. The 4 Season is kevlar bead. I've used the
Gatorskin model and it wears very well. Sidewalls are almost
impervious to anything. This tire would satisfy the no sidewall
failures and long wearing requirements you list below.

Quoted message said:

So I'm looking for a low-rolling-resistance, tight-
cornering, long-wearing, no-sidewall-failures clincer,
or at least the closest approximation. Anybody have
any suggestions?

(Note: I haven't ridden the latest generation of either
the Michelin (Pro2 Race) or Conti (GP-4000), and I'm
not eager to try either unless they've made significant
improvements in their achilles heels).

Larry Coon
University of California

I agree that Conti's GP 4 Season is a very good choice, especially for the
(though rare) wet road mountain descends. I buy the 25 mm version,
because the extra comfort gives me better durability on the ultra rides.
And I think it gives even better puncture resistance as well.
Only negative aspect I can think of is the price - and I havn't seen it on
sale or special offer yet.
I always have fairly new tires on my "sunday wheels" and move them to my
training wheels, where I wear them down good with a puncture proof belt
inside.

It's cousin, the Ultragator Dura Skin, scored top character in a test in
German Tour Magazin recently.

Ivar of Denmark

are you running the conti's into potholes? is the rim surface jagged?

low pressures will injure conti sidewalls - conti sidewalls produce
sensitivity in direction changes - and lower total mileage than
bontragers

came back from dinner-the question is often asked-and the manufacturer
for sure tries to answer-that;s why the bontragers are OE and the
conti's are not
i switched from conti tt rear to panaracer messenger due to sidewall
failures-which are my fault not conti's- i was not using the tt for its
intended purpose.
the remaining TT's will go on the front for sensitivity and control. i
really enjoy the TT as you would the perfect around the block GP
tire-which ur not gonna find
but-the sidewalls: I changed routes 3 times with the TT-open smooth
road-open smooth road plus city sidewalks-then city sidewalks/bike
paths.
as the smoothness moved to curbs and pothole impacts (and i'm gentle on
the machinery), conti sidewall failures moved into the 1/2 total
useable tread mileage area as an average.
previously i wrote the Conti TT was more in the area of a beyond
category cafe tourer with hd touring mileage at east to west coast with
a new set but don't count on it.
as a mitty gp tire the tt is outasight. as a cafe tourer-the tire will
save your butt from boneheaded moves, giving your supposed unconscious
a real lift in self esteem.
the new panaracer appears to be an intended world beater design by
panaracer,
i guess and don't know-the conti burbs GP tire is intended #1 also-but
the owner needs to subscribe to the tire's limits-the sidewalls
i have a bontrager select 28c while i gear down to a 700c from a 27"
and the bonnie-with extra care,slower speeds-holds up better than the
TT at 32c-see the bontrager website for sidewall info-an obvious answer
to the TT's sidewall problem or lack of problem rdefined to directional
sensitivity thru sidewall design.
what you see is probably what you'll ride on.

I'm a big fan of the michelin carbons (they have a new name now I think).
Unless you're racing on them, they corner quite nicely and i've been getting
2000-3000 miles out of them

-Josh

"Ron Ruff" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Larry Coon said:

So I'm looking for a low-rolling-resistance, tight-
cornering, long-wearing, no-sidewall-failures clincer,
or at least the closest approximation. Anybody have
any suggestions?

Of course, you won't find the best of all worlds in one tire. I'll go
along with Lou that the Pro2 is probably your best compromise if you
want a "racing" tire. If you want longer life you could try a Carbon or
Megamium (both Michelin).

Surprised that that the cornering traction was poor with the Pro...
what pressure were you running?

Quoted message said:

Larry Coon said:

I'm looking for a recommendation on a 700x23C road
tire. After riding sew-ups all of my adult life, I
switched to clincers with my latest bike. It (a
Trek OCLV) came with Bontrager X-Lites, but I really
didn't like their rolling resistance. I switched to
Michelin Pro Races, but as the raspberry on my hip
will attest, they don't exactly have the best
cornering traction, nor do they wear all that well.

I then switched to Conti GP-3000's. These tires are
apparently prone to sidewall failures if you do so
much as breathe on them, and I've now lost two tires
to sidewall problems (one after only 100 miles).

So I'm looking for a low-rolling-resistance, tight-
cornering, long-wearing, no-sidewall-failures clincer,
or at least the closest approximation. Anybody have
any suggestions?

(Note: I haven't ridden the latest generation of either
the Michelin (Pro2 Race) or Conti (GP-4000), and I'm
not eager to try either unless they've made significant
improvements in their achilles heels).

Sorni said:

Hmmm. I'm just about to order some new tires for my as-yet-super-secret new
rig, and it's between Pro2 Races and Vittoria Open Corsas. I'm leaning
(oh-oh) toward the Michelins as they're both lighter AND cheaper -- and I
liked the "regular" (?) Pro Races I tried before. (But I also love my
Vittoria Rubino Pros, so maybe the Corsas will please me as well.) Ain't a
huge fan of the Veloflex Paves I've had on the "light wheels" -- puncture
way too easily and don't "feel" all that fast. (Couldn't be the rider, of
course!)

Bill "damn cursed indecision" S.

Maybe Michelin 700-23 Carbon? They are essentially a
thicker-tread Pro, 240g vs 220g.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Larry Coon said:

I'm looking for a recommendation on a 700x23C road
tire. After riding sew-ups all of my adult life, I
switched to clincers with my latest bike. It (a
Trek OCLV) came with Bontrager X-Lites, but I really
didn't like their rolling resistance. I switched to
Michelin Pro Races, but as the raspberry on my hip
will attest, they don't exactly have the best
cornering traction, nor do they wear all that well.

I then switched to Conti GP-3000's. These tires are
apparently prone to sidewall failures if you do so
much as breathe on them, and I've now lost two tires
to sidewall problems (one after only 100 miles).

So I'm looking for a low-rolling-resistance, tight-
cornering, long-wearing, no-sidewall-failures clincer,
or at least the closest approximation. Anybody have
any suggestions?

(Note: I haven't ridden the latest generation of either
the Michelin (Pro2 Race) or Conti (GP-4000), and I'm
not eager to try either unless they've made significant
improvements in their achilles heels).

what achilles heels are those? i've used michelin pros [and pro race]
for years and am anxious to learn what i've been missing. do share.

Quoted message said:

Larry Coon
University of California

Larry Coon said:

So I'm looking for a low-rolling-resistance, tight-
cornering, long-wearing, no-sidewall-failures clincer,
or at least the closest approximation. Anybody have
any suggestions?

Panaracer T-Servs. Light, fast, grippy, wear like iron and are a lot
cheaper than the Conti Gatorskin. I ride 'em on most of my own
personal bikes.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

Mark Hickey said:

Larry Coon said:

So I'm looking for a low-rolling-resistance, tight-
cornering, long-wearing, no-sidewall-failures clincer,
or at least the closest approximation. Anybody have
any suggestions?

Panaracer T-Servs. Light, fast, grippy, wear like iron and are a lot
cheaper than the Conti Gatorskin. I ride 'em on most of my own
personal bikes.

Yeahbutt...they don't /sound/ very sexy!

:-D

Larry Coon said:

I'm looking for a recommendation on a 700x23C road
tire. After riding sew-ups all of my adult life, I
switched to clincers with my latest bike. It (a
Trek OCLV) came with Bontrager X-Lites, but I really
didn't like their rolling resistance. I switched to
Michelin Pro Races, but as the raspberry on my hip
will attest, they don't exactly have the best
cornering traction, nor do they wear all that well.

I then switched to Conti GP-3000's. These tires are
apparently prone to sidewall failures if you do so
much as breathe on them, and I've now lost two tires
to sidewall problems (one after only 100 miles).

So I'm looking for a low-rolling-resistance, tight-
cornering, long-wearing, no-sidewall-failures clincer,
or at least the closest approximation. Anybody have
any suggestions?

(Note: I haven't ridden the latest generation of either
the Michelin (Pro2 Race) or Conti (GP-4000), and I'm
not eager to try either unless they've made significant
improvements in their achilles heels).

Larry Coon
University of California

I used many Pro Race and IMO the cornering traction is great. Maybe what
happened to you is due to the "wax" they put on it for storage, it
usually disappears after a couple of km.

Francesco

Larry Coon said:

So I'm looking for a low-rolling-resistance, tight-
cornering, long-wearing, no-sidewall-failures clincer,
or at least the closest approximation. Anybody have
any suggestions?

Oh, without a doubt, I recommend :

Continental Ultra Grand Prix 3700 Gatorskin Superleicht
Attack Force Retreat Regroup Attack Again!

At least, I think this is what my bikeshop sold me last week ! ! ! I
really don't understand the sidewall issue. But, I weigh 230 lbs and
ride 25mm tires - NEVER 23's - I'm not stupid, you know .. I also
like Clement Ventoux but these are as easy to find as tickets to a
John Kerry Rally.

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

Dans le message de news:[email hidden],
Lou Holtman <[email hidden]> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :

Quoted message said:

Larry Coon said:

I'm looking for a recommendation on a 700x23C road
tire. After riding sew-ups all of my adult life, I
switched to clincers with my latest bike. It (a
Trek OCLV) came with Bontrager X-Lites, but I really
didn't like their rolling resistance. I switched to
Michelin Pro Races, but as the raspberry on my hip
will attest, they don't exactly have the best
cornering traction, nor do they wear all that well.

I then switched to Conti GP-3000's. These tires are
apparently prone to sidewall failures if you do so
much as breathe on them, and I've now lost two tires
to sidewall problems (one after only 100 miles).

So I'm looking for a low-rolling-resistance, tight-
cornering, long-wearing, no-sidewall-failures clincer,
or at least the closest approximation. Anybody have
any suggestions?

(Note: I haven't ridden the latest generation of either
the Michelin (Pro2 Race) or Conti (GP-4000), and I'm
not eager to try either unless they've made significant
improvements in their achilles heels).

I still believe that the Michelin Pro2 Race is the best compromise
despite your experience.

Lou

I agree with Lou, but for winter, and humid conditions, I use Vittoria
EVO-KX, which seem to do the trick.
--
--
Sandy

--
Si les autres parties du monde ont des singes ; l'Europe a des Français.
Cela se compense.
[Arthur Schopenhauer]

Mark Hickey said:

Larry Coon said:

So I'm looking for a low-rolling-resistance, tight-
cornering, long-wearing, no-sidewall-failures clincer,
or at least the closest approximation. Anybody have
any suggestions?

Panaracer T-Servs. Light, fast, grippy, wear like iron and are a lot
cheaper than the Conti Gatorskin. I ride 'em on most of my own
personal bikes.

I'm a big fan of the (plain) Panaracer Pasela. They seem very similar to
the T-Serv, wire bead rather than Kevlar, almost identical weight --
310g vs. 290g (28mm), cheaper -- as low as $12 on sale.

Panaracer web site shows Pasela casing at 66 tpi and T-serv at 27 tpi,
so all things being equal, I think the RR should be lower on the Pasela.
Paselas also offer the Kevlar belt as an option -- I prefer tires
sans-a-belt, myself. You can get the Pasela TG with Kevlar belt and
bead, seem almost identical to T-serv.

Sorni said:

Mark Hickey said:

Larry Coon said:

So I'm looking for a low-rolling-resistance, tight-
cornering, long-wearing, no-sidewall-failures clincer,
or at least the closest approximation. Anybody have
any suggestions?

Panaracer T-Servs. Light, fast, grippy, wear like iron and are a lot
cheaper than the Conti Gatorskin. I ride 'em on most of my own
personal bikes.

Yeahbutt...they don't /sound/ very sexy!

Well, if it helps, the full name of the tire is "T-Serv for
Messengers". How sexy CAN you get?

Mark "... I'm too sexy for my tires..." Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

Quoted message said:

are you running the conti's into potholes? is the rim surface jagged?

No, and no.

Larry Coon
University of California