Tire recommendation

Quoted message said:

low pressures will injure conti sidewalls - conti sidewalls produce
sensitivity in direction changes - and lower total mileage than
bontragers

And not lower pressure, either. I run about 115 psi.

And if by "lower total mileage" you mean "on the order of
100 miles...."

Larry Coon
University of California

Lou Holtman said:

I still believe that the Michelin Pro2 Race is the best compromise
despite your experience.

I should have ranked my criteria, because as I implied in my
original post, I'm not going to find a tire with everything.
Rolling resistance & grip are more important to me than a long
life, although a tire that fails prematurely due to sideall
failure is unacceptable. So if the Pro2 Race sticks to the
road better than the Pro Race did, it might be my best choice,
even if it wears faster than other tires.

And by grip, I'm more concerned about normal conditions than
I am about wet. I really only ride in the rain if I happen
to be caught in it during a ride, and in those conditions it's
easy to be extra careful. I live in Southern California, so
it's not wet here that often. The crash I had was with dry
pavement, cornering at about 25 mph. That's the situation
where I'd like the tire to grip a little better.

Larry Coon
University of California

Francesco Devittori said:

I used many Pro Race and IMO the cornering traction is great. Maybe what
happened to you is due to the "wax" they put on it for storage, it
usually disappears after a couple of km.

No, these tires were far from new. I did think it was pretty
strange, since I've gone through many hard corners with those
tires. I even went back to that corner to see if there was a
patch of sand or some other kind of slick spot that I didn't
see. There wasn't. I think I simply pushed that tire beyond
its traction limit on that particular corner.

As I'm reading more of the responses, I should probably get
more of my criteria down -- price really doesn't matter, unless
I'm buying a pair of 'em every month, like it looks like I was
about to do with the Contis. And I think fretting over a few
grams is silly.

Larry Coon
University of California

A Muzi said:

Sorni wrote:

This is a reply to both Bill & Andrew, since Bill's post hasn't
propagated to my server yet.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Hmmm. I'm just about to order some new tires for my as-yet-super-secret new
rig, and it's between Pro2 Races and Vittoria Open Corsas. I'm leaning
(oh-oh) toward the Michelins as they're both lighter AND cheaper -- and I
liked the "regular" (?) Pro Races I tried before. (But I also love my
Vittoria Rubino Pros,

I haven't tried Vittoria clinchers yet (although I used to use
their CX/CG sew-ups). How do they compare?

Quoted message said:

Maybe Michelin 700-23 Carbon? They are essentially a
thicker-tread Pro, 240g vs 220g.

How do they ride?

Larry Coon
University of California

Larry Coon said:

A Muzi said:

Sorni wrote:

This is a reply to both Bill & Andrew, since Bill's post hasn't
propagated to my server yet.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Hmmm. I'm just about to order some new tires for my
as-yet-super-secret new rig, and it's between Pro2 Races and Vittoria
Open Corsas. I'm leaning (oh-oh) toward the Michelins as they're
both lighter AND cheaper -- and I liked the "regular" (?) Pro Races I
tried before. (But I also love my Vittoria Rubino Pros,

I haven't tried Vittoria clinchers yet (although I used to use their
CX/CG sew-ups). How do they compare?

I've been riding on the previous version (Open Corsa CX TT). They're the
nicest tires I've ever used. Fast and smooth, durable and cut resistant.
The only reason I haven't bought more is that they're so expensive. I
hear the latest ones have slightly thinner casings for more speed, and
aren't quite as robust. I bet they ride nicely though.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Maybe Michelin 700-23 Carbon? They are essentially a thicker-tread Pro,
240g vs 220g.

The Carbon has an extra ply compared to the Pro, for better puncture and
cut resistance.

Quoted message said:

How do they ride?

They're not quite as supple, but they're otherwise similar, and still
better than most. RR is still better than most brands' top race tires.
They last 50% longer, and cost less to begin with. They have real carbon
black in the tread for better grip in the rain -- not that I test the
limits when it's wet out.

Matt O.

"Larry Coon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

A Muzi said:

Sorni wrote:

This is a reply to both Bill & Andrew, since Bill's post hasn't
propagated to my server yet.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Hmmm. I'm just about to order some new tires for my
as-yet-super-secret new
rig, and it's between Pro2 Races and Vittoria Open Corsas. I'm leaning
(oh-oh) toward the Michelins as they're both lighter AND cheaper -- and
I
liked the "regular" (?) Pro Races I tried before. (But I also love my
Vittoria Rubino Pros,

I have used Vittoria Open Corso CX's for a few years and they are the best
tires I've ever used-reasonable weight, reasonable wear, good road adhesion.
I absolutely hated Conti's and I rode them for a long time...they seem to
ride very harshly and I had a few sidewall failures with them. Michelins
always got lots of cuts in the treads, although I've not used the Pro2Races
(got a pair with a bike I just bought and took them off in favor of my
trusty V's). I really liked the Veloflex Pave's also, but damn, did they
wear out fast and I'm light.

Once per year, I take a poll of my cycling buds as to who wants V's (and
their only choice is black-makes it easier for me). I check the prices at
Probikekit and Total Cycling. This year, I think I paid $29 per tire.
Shipping to the US is anywhere between $15 and $22, so it adds about $1 per
tire. I only order when I want 12 or more (this year I bought 16) and I
divvy them up between us. That way, everyone only pays about $30/tire.
Considering they retail for about $60 each in the US, you can't beat it.
Oh, and there is NO import duty on tires ;>

HTH,
Cat

Peter Cole said:

Mark Hickey said:

Larry Coon said:

So I'm looking for a low-rolling-resistance, tight-
cornering, long-wearing, no-sidewall-failures clincer,
or at least the closest approximation. Anybody have
any suggestions?

Panaracer T-Servs. Light, fast, grippy, wear like iron and are a lot
cheaper than the Conti Gatorskin. I ride 'em on most of my own
personal bikes.

I'm a big fan of the (plain) Panaracer Pasela. They seem very similar to
the T-Serv, wire bead rather than Kevlar, almost identical weight --
310g vs. 290g (28mm), cheaper -- as low as $12 on sale.

Panaracer web site shows Pasela casing at 66 tpi and T-serv at 27 tpi,
so all things being equal, I think the RR should be lower on the Pasela.
Paselas also offer the Kevlar belt as an option -- I prefer tires
sans-a-belt, myself. You can get the Pasela TG with Kevlar belt and
bead, seem almost identical to T-serv.

I've been very impressed with whatever Panaracer is doing to make the
T-Serv tires tough. I still do get one flat every few months - but
this is in an area where I used to average 3-4 per week.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

Mark Hickey said:

Well, if it helps, the full name of the tire is "T-Serv for
Messengers". How sexy CAN you get?

Incidentally, T-serv is the name of a messenger company in Tokyo
(http://t-serv.co.jp). I assume this is where the name comde from. You
can think of these tires as "team kit" for a different sort of pro
rider.

amakyonin said:

Mark Hickey said:

Well, if it helps, the full name of the tire is "T-Serv for
Messengers". How sexy CAN you get?

Incidentally, T-serv is the name of a messenger company in Tokyo
(http://t-serv.co.jp). I assume this is where the name comde from. You
can think of these tires as "team kit" for a different sort of pro
rider.

That's interesting information. I had always sorta assumed that
"T-Serv" was short for "Tough-SERVice".

the pasela spoke of is not the t serv but the tourgard pasela
harris doesn't list t-messengers- not tourgard- at lower widths
the tourgard is a tire for around the block and a good front for
commuting-excellent design balance in production
if the wanna be gp racer goes for a slower tire the the TT is superior
to the t-serve and tourgard
apples and pears. the TT is cafe touring, mitty GP, touring in GT
conditions-T-serves and schwalbes are grinditoutunderload
anyway the problem stated seems anomalic due to overlooked factors??
mark-add 2 slime liners!!
this move shifts all flats to tube failures(rotate) and sidewall cuts

It's not the tires, it's the inner tubes. Sew-ups use latex tubes, which are
more flexible so they have lower rolling resistance, are more comfortable,
and have better cornering and traction. Clinchers use butyl tubes, which
don't need to be pumped up every day, and are a fraction of the cost. Try
latex tubes in your clinchers.
--
Electronic Anti-Stuttering Devices http://www.casafuturatech.com
Thomas David Kehoe Casa Futura Technologies (303) 417-9752

in article [email hidden], Larry Coon at [email hidden] wrote
on 1/24/06 12:53 PM:

Quoted message said:

I'm looking for a recommendation on a 700x23C road
tire. After riding sew-ups all of my adult life, I
switched to clincers with my latest bike. It (a
Trek OCLV) came with Bontrager X-Lites, but I really
didn't like their rolling resistance. I switched to
Michelin Pro Races, but as the raspberry on my hip
will attest, they don't exactly have the best
cornering traction, nor do they wear all that well.

I then switched to Conti GP-3000's. These tires are
apparently prone to sidewall failures if you do so
much as breathe on them, and I've now lost two tires
to sidewall problems (one after only 100 miles).

So I'm looking for a low-rolling-resistance, tight-
cornering, long-wearing, no-sidewall-failures clincer,
or at least the closest approximation. Anybody have
any suggestions?

(Note: I haven't ridden the latest generation of either
the Michelin (Pro2 Race) or Conti (GP-4000), and I'm
not eager to try either unless they've made significant
improvements in their achilles heels).

Larry Coon
University of California

Thomas David Kehoe said:

It's not the tires, it's the inner tubes. Sew-ups use latex tubes, which are
more flexible so they have lower rolling resistance, are more comfortable,
and have better cornering and traction. Clinchers use butyl tubes, which
don't need to be pumped up every day, and are a fraction of the cost. Try
latex tubes in your clinchers.

Bearing in mind, as you do, that latex tubes have higher porosity and
will require more frequent inflation. Some users claim that they are
more resistant to snakebit punctures if properly inflated. In my very
limited experience, this is entirely offset (and then some) by their
tendency to lose air.

For most riders, the higher cost, higher maintenance, and small
benefit of latex probably does not add up to a bargain.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Thomas David Kehoe said:

It's not the tires, it's the inner tubes. Sew-ups use latex tubes,

*Some* tubulars use latex tubes, some do not.

JT

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Quoted message said:

the pasela spoke of is not the t serv but the tourgard pasela
harris doesn't list t-messengers- not tourgard- at lower widths
the tourgard is a tire for around the block and a good front for
commuting-excellent design balance in production
if the wanna be gp racer goes for a slower tire the the TT is superior
to the t-serve and tourgard
apples and pears. the TT is cafe touring, mitty GP, touring in GT
conditions-T-serves and schwalbes are grinditoutunderload
anyway the problem stated seems anomalic due to overlooked factors??
mark-add 2 slime liners!!
this move shifts all flats to tube failures(rotate) and sidewall cuts

Say what?

Greg

Cat Dailey said:

I have used Vittoria Open Corso CX's for a few years and they are the best
tires I've ever used-reasonable weight, reasonable wear, good road adhesion.

Yeah, after reading all the responses, I think the Vits have piqued
my interest the most. I'm going to give them a shot. The sidewall
failure I just had was on my rear tire, so I moved the remaining
Conti from the front to the rear, and put a Pro Race that still had
some life left on the front. I figure I can ride this way until the
remaining Conti falls apart, which outta buy me at least a week or
so (less if I accidentally breathe on it) -- then I'll pick up a set
of the Vits.

Quoted message said:

I absolutely hated Conti's and I rode them for a long time...they seem to
ride very harshly and I had a few sidewall failures with them. Michelins
always got lots of cuts in the treads, although I've not used the Pro2Races
(got a pair with a bike I just bought and took them off in favor of my
trusty V's). I really liked the Veloflex Pave's also, but damn, did they
wear out fast and I'm light.

Once per year, I take a poll of my cycling buds as to who wants V's (and
their only choice is black-makes it easier for me). I check the prices at
Probikekit and Total Cycling. This year, I think I paid $29 per tire.
Shipping to the US is anywhere between $15 and $22, so it adds about $1 per
tire. I only order when I want 12 or more (this year I bought 16) and I
divvy them up between us. That way, everyone only pays about $30/tire.
Considering they retail for about $60 each in the US, you can't beat it.
Oh, and there is NO import duty on tires ;>

Nice. Checking around a little, it looks like they are are as cheap
as $77/pr, plus $8 shipping. Not as cheap as you're getting them buying
in quantity, but not bad.

Larry Coon
University of California

Cat Dailey said:

I have used Vittoria Open Corso CX's for a few years and they are the best
tires I've ever used-reasonable weight, reasonable wear, good road adhesion.

Yeah, after reading all the responses, I think the Vits have piqued
my interest the most. I'm going to give them a shot. The sidewall
failure I just had was on my rear tire, so I moved the remaining
Conti from the front to the rear, and put a Pro Race that still had
some life left on the front. I figure I can ride this way until the
remaining Conti falls apart, which outta buy me at least a week or
so (less if I accidentally breathe on it) -- then I'll pick up a set
of the Vits.

Quoted message said:

I absolutely hated Conti's and I rode them for a long time...they seem to
ride very harshly and I had a few sidewall failures with them. Michelins
always got lots of cuts in the treads, although I've not used the Pro2Races
(got a pair with a bike I just bought and took them off in favor of my
trusty V's). I really liked the Veloflex Pave's also, but damn, did they
wear out fast and I'm light.

Once per year, I take a poll of my cycling buds as to who wants V's (and
their only choice is black-makes it easier for me). I check the prices at
Probikekit and Total Cycling. This year, I think I paid $29 per tire.
Shipping to the US is anywhere between $15 and $22, so it adds about $1 per
tire. I only order when I want 12 or more (this year I bought 16) and I
divvy them up between us. That way, everyone only pays about $30/tire.
Considering they retail for about $60 each in the US, you can't beat it.
Oh, and there is NO import duty on tires ;>

Nice. Checking around a little, it looks like they are are as cheap
as $77/pr, plus $8 shipping. Not as cheap as you're getting them buying
in quantity, but not bad.

Larry Coon
University of California

Larry Coon wrote (of Vittoria Corsa whatever-they're-called):

Quoted message said:

Nice. Checking around a little, it looks like they are are as cheap
as $77/pr, plus $8 shipping. Not as cheap as you're getting them
buying in quantity, but not bad.

Where'd you find that? I saw $48.99 each IIRC...

Larry Coon wrote (of Vittoria Corsa whatever-they're-called):

Quoted message said:

Nice. Checking around a little, it looks like they are are as cheap
as $77/pr, plus $8 shipping. Not as cheap as you're getting them
buying in quantity, but not bad.

Where'd you find that? I saw $48.99 each IIRC...

Sorni said:

Where'd you find that? I saw $48.99 each IIRC...

http://makeashorterlink.com/?P25314B8C

Larry Coon
University of California

Sorni said:

Where'd you find that? I saw $48.99 each IIRC...

http://makeashorterlink.com/?P25314B8C

Larry Coon
University of California