Raleigh Record Frame: Worth Saving?

The Eye wrote on Monday 16 January 2006 00:33:

Quoted message said:

How do I get off the cottered cranks?

Undo the cotter-pin nut and drift the pin out.
--
Regards
Alex
The From address above is a spam-trap.
The Reply-To address is valid

The Eye said:

I did a bit of dumpster driving recently and brought home this Raleigh
Record frame.

Here are a group of pictures http://family.technoscribe.net/record.html

I am not that knowledgeable about bikes/models so I am not sure whether I
should invest any time or money.

Invest as little as possible. What you have was pretty low on the totem
pole for its time and not particularly special or rare.

Quoted message said:

My plan is to make this into a road style single speed bike. I have the
handle bars, brakes, wheels, etc

Should I do it at all?

I have a similar Raleigh frame that was donated to me by a friend. I
built it up as a single speed with straight handlebars. It makes a
great errand/coffee shop/pit bike. I had some old 700C rims and 700 x
30C tires that I built into wheels for it, which is probably overkill,
but what the heck.

Quoted message said:

How do I get off the cottered cranks?

Can I buy a cartridge bottom bracket for this frame?

Any other information or thoughts would be appreciated.

You can glean some useful information from Sheldon's Retro Raleigh
page: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/retroraleighs/ . I think you'll be
able to install a conventional English-threaded cartridge BB once
you've removed the cottered cranks. Here's how:
http://sheldonbrown.com/cotters.html .

Jeff

The Eye said:

I did a bit of dumpster driving recently and brought home this Raleigh
Record frame.

Here are a group of pictures http://family.technoscribe.net/record.html

I am not that knowledgeable about bikes/models so I am not sure whether I
should invest any time or money.

My plan is to make this into a road style single speed bike. I have the
handle bars, brakes, wheels, etc

Should I do it at all?

How do I get off the cottered cranks?

See <http://sheldonbrown.com/cotters.html>.

Quoted message said:

Can I buy a cartridge bottom bracket for this frame?

Maybe. See <http://sheldonbrown.com/raleigh26.html> and
<http://sheldonbrown.com/cribsheet-bottombrackets.html>.

Quoted message said:

Any other information or thoughts would be appreciated.

The answers are often found on Sheldon Brown's website:
<http://www.sheldonbrown.com/>.

--
Tom Sherman - Fox River

The Eye said:

I am not that knowledgeable about bikes/models so I am not sure whether I
should invest any time or money.

The Record was an entry-level bike popular on college campusses during
the early '70s. It's a pretty heavy steel frame with no particular
unique value that I'm aware of, but should ride fine as long as it
hasn't been bent or otherwise damaged.

Quoted message said:

Should I do it at all?

I wouldn't spend much time or money on it, but it's up to you if you
have the necessary parts and time.

Quoted message said:

How do I get off the cottered cranks?

The proper method is to use a tool that bike shops have (or used to
have) for pushing out the cotterpin with lots of leverage. The
alternate method is:
loosen the nut holding the cotterpin in place so it's flush with the
end of the pin;
support the crankarm with a socket that goes around the head end of the
cotterpin;
hit the threaded end of the pin/nut with a hammer to dislodge it, then
remove nut and pin;
now the crank should come off - if it's stuck apply some torque to
loosen any rust.

Quoted message said:

Can I buy a cartridge bottom bracket for this frame?

AFAIK, they all had standard 68 mm bottom brackets and English
threading so standard bottom brackets should fit.

Wow! What a great news group.

I had the sense it was not a "notable" frame and don't think I'll take the
time and money to build it up.

Don't know how many cottered cranks I'll will run into in the future so I
won't just take it apart to learn. I live near JP in Boston, so I'll let
Bikes Not Bombs decide it's final fate.

Thanks for all the responses, especially Peter.

The Eye

"peter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The Eye said:

I am not that knowledgeable about bikes/models so I am not sure whether I
should invest any time or money.

The Record was an entry-level bike popular on college campusses during
the early '70s. It's a pretty heavy steel frame with no particular
unique value that I'm aware of, but should ride fine as long as it
hasn't been bent or otherwise damaged.

Quoted message said:

Should I do it at all?

I wouldn't spend much time or money on it, but it's up to you if you
have the necessary parts and time.

Quoted message said:

How do I get off the cottered cranks?

The proper method is to use a tool that bike shops have (or used to
have) for pushing out the cotterpin with lots of leverage. The
alternate method is:
loosen the nut holding the cotterpin in place so it's flush with the
end of the pin;
support the crankarm with a socket that goes around the head end of the
cotterpin;
hit the threaded end of the pin/nut with a hammer to dislodge it, then
remove nut and pin;
now the crank should come off - if it's stuck apply some torque to
loosen any rust.

Quoted message said:

Can I buy a cartridge bottom bracket for this frame?

AFAIK, they all had standard 68 mm bottom brackets and English
threading so standard bottom brackets should fit.

Someone said:

Quoted message said:

I am not that knowledgeable about bikes/models so I am not sure whether I
should invest any time or money.

An anonymous poster replied.

Quoted message said:

The Record was an entry-level bike popular on college campusses during
the early '70s. It's a pretty heavy steel frame with no particular
unique value that I'm aware of, but should ride fine as long as it
hasn't been bent or otherwise damaged.

This is all true. It was Raleigh's bottom-of-the-line 10 speed. The
frame does not differ in any important way from a Raleigh 3-speed frame
of the same vintage.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Should I do it at all?

I wouldn't spend much time or money on it, but it's up to you if you
have the necessary parts and time.

Right. Looks like it needs a good deal of work. However, it would
probably be a nice rider in the end.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

How do I get off the cottered cranks?

See: http://sheldonbrown.com/cotters for all of the gory details on this.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Can I buy a cartridge bottom bracket for this frame?

AFAIK, they all had standard 68 mm bottom brackets and English
threading so standard bottom brackets should fit.

This is where the anonymous poster goes astray. This bike, like other
Nottingham Raleighs, used Raleighs proprietary 26 tpi threading, and the
bottom bracket shell is likel a good deal wider than 68 mm. The bike
also uses an oddball headset, oddball frame/hub spacing front and rear,
and will require brake calipers with an unusually long reach.

I have a detailed article that covers these bikes, see:

http://sheldonbrown.com/raleigh26.

Sheldon "BTDT" Brown
+-----------------------------+
| Razors pain you; |
| Rivers are damp; |
| Acids stain you; |
| And drugs cause cramp; |
| Guns aren't lawful; |
| Nooses give; |
| Gas smells awful; |
| You might as well live. |
| --Dorothy Parker |
+-----------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

The Eye said:

I did a bit of dumpster driving recently and brought home this Raleigh
Record frame.

Here are a group of pictures http://family.technoscribe.net/record.html

I am not that knowledgeable about bikes/models so I am not sure whether I
should invest any time or money.

My plan is to make this into a road style single speed bike. I have the
handle bars, brakes, wheels, etc

Should I do it at all?

How do I get off the cottered cranks?

Can I buy a cartridge bottom bracket for this frame?

Any other information or thoughts would be appreciated.

The typical costly issues for upgrades of bikes this old are wheels and
cranks.

I was able to find an inexpensive set of new wheels and had some nice
cranks (80's stuff from another bike upgrade), so I built up a Raleigh
Record for my son. I kept the original bars, stem, brake levers and
calipers, BB cups -- found a workable length square taper spindle in my
parts box. I upgraded with bar-end shifters, MTB seatpost, r. derailer,
and pedals. Wound up with a pretty nice road bike for less than $200 out
of pocket. He loves it.

Sheldon Brown said:

This is where the anonymous poster goes astray. This bike, like other
Nottingham Raleighs, used Raleighs proprietary 26 tpi threading, and the
bottom bracket shell is likel a good deal wider than 68 mm. The bike
also uses an oddball headset, oddball frame/hub spacing front and rear,
and will require brake calipers with an unusually long reach.

I have a detailed article that covers these bikes, see:

I'm not certain that's the case. My single-speed (based on a Grand
Prix: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/retroraleighs/grand-prix.html ) uses
a standard 68mm-wide English-thread BB. The fork used the oddball
thread, which cased me to swap it out for a GT fork. From the pictures,
I'd guess the OP's bike is from the same era.

The brake reach was another problem- it's still got the Weinmann
centerpulls on it. They work OK.

Jeff

The Eye said:

My plan is to make this into a road style single speed bike. I have the
handle bars, brakes, wheels, etc

Should I do it at all?

If you want to ride it, do it. It's kinda rusty, and never was a
top-of-the-line bike, but it's better than gaspipe.

Quoted message said:

How do I get off the cottered cranks?

Loosen the nut on the cotter pin (wedge-shaped bolt) some. Thwack it
gently with a substantial mallet. Loosen nut again, repeat. If it
resists, thwack it less gently. You will probably damage the cotter pins,
but you aren't planning to use this crank, anyway, or so I gather.

Quoted message said:

Can I buy a cartridge bottom bracket for this frame?

should be no problem. It's probably English threaded, which is the
current standard. Check that the shell is 68mm wide, and that the
right-hand cup has left-hand threads. If so, modern English (ISO)
threaded bottom brackets will fit. If it's 70mm wide, and the right-hand
cup is right-hand threaded, it would be Italian (unlikely, but most likely
alternative), which is also available.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | Let's be straight here. If we find something we can't
_`\(,_ | understand we like to call it something you can't understand, or
(_)/ (_) | indeed even pronounce. -- Douglas Adams

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

How do I get off the cottered cranks?

A well-meaning poster gave a bunch of bad advice:

Quoted message said:

Loosen the nut on the cotter pin (wedge-shaped bolt) some. Thwack it
gently with a substantial mallet.

No, "gently" _never_ works. Nor does a mallet. If you don't have
access to a cotter press, you have to hit it HARD with a HAMMER.

See: http://sheldonbrown.com/cotters

Quoted message said:

Loosen nut again, repeat. If it
resists, thwack it less gently. You will probably damage the cotter pins,

Certainly, not "probably." If you don't hit it hard enough to drive the
cotter out with the first or second blow, the cotter will definitely be
toast.

Quoted message said:

but you aren't planning to use this crank, anyway, or so I gather.

It would save a LOT of trouble to use the crank and bottom bracket as it
is. If it were mine, I'd drip a bunch of oil down the seat tube and
ride it.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Can I buy a cartridge bottom bracket for this frame?

should be no problem. It's probably English threaded, which is the
current standard.

No, it isn't. It's Raleigh threaded, 26 tpi. The only currently
available bottom bracket for this is Phil Wood, which costs considerably
more than the frame is worth.

See: http://sheldonbrown.com/raleigh26 for details and strategies.

Quoted message said:

Check that the shell is 68mm wide, and that the
right-hand cup has left-hand threads. If so, modern English (ISO)
threaded bottom brackets will fit. If it's 70mm wide, and the right-hand
cup is right-hand threaded, it would be Italian (unlikely, but most likely
alternative), which is also available.

Italian on a Raleigh? You've gotta be kidding!

Sheldon "No Way" Brown
+--------------------------------------------+
| Nothing is given so profusely as advice. |
| - Francois, Duc de la Rouchefoucauld |
+--------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

I wouldn't be interested in saving this bicycle. It has a "gaspipe"
carbon-steel plain gauge frameset meaning it probably weighs about 8 lbs.

About the best thing going for this bike is that it's way lighter than
a schwinn varsity or continental - sub 30 lbs, maybe 29 lbs.

The bottom bracket has custom raleigh threads, as does the headset.
There is no source for a replacement headset if yours fails.

If you are interested in putting on a new crankset, then you just want
to buy a new cotterless axle. You cannot change out the cups without
incurring a big expense (typically for phil wood retaining cups and a
shimano or phil wood cartridge bottom bracket, $70 - $120 which is
more than the value of the entire bike right now.)

Good luck,

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

This bike is the perfect application for this product :

https://www.theruststore.com/Evapo-Rust-Gallon-P1C1.aspx

From other articles i've seen on the internet, this product is able to
remove rust from a painted frame without disturbing the paint. If you
are able to do this, then perhaps you can slap a coat of thick wax
onto the frameset before it rusts up again. BUT : you will need to
devise a way to soak the tubes, this stuff takes 24 hours to work and
cannot just be "brushed on".

Your Raleigh Record bottom bracket is almost certainly raleigh 26 tpi.
I couldn't get my sugino maxy crankset onto my raleigh grand prix in
1975 - one model up in the raleigh lineup - so i ended up just using
the spindle.

If you can figure out a way to have fun with this frame, then of
course its worth building up again. For example, let's say you have
20 parts in your parts box and want to see if they still work. Well,
that's fun. BUT I wouldn't sink more than $10 into this frame. So,
I'm not sure if it'd be worth buying some Evapo-Rust if this were the
only application.

I like to restore Raleighs starting 3 steps up in the raleigh line
(starting at the gran sport.) Those bikes imho are worth $200+ in
good condition and so if you can get one for $100-$120 then you can
have some fun and get a great bike without losing your shirt. The
gran sport is mostly reynolds 531, weighs 24 or 25 lbs - and is very
similar to the Raleigh International - a Grand Touring bike -
recommended by Grant Peterson of Rivendell / Bridgestone.

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

taking the old pipe apart requires brushing threads, soaking in pc
blaster, razor blading the meeting thread...
redoing the pipe's insides-somehow scrapping the [censored] out. there are
posrts on thios in tech archives but there are experts who do it for
you with steam and caustic
it is reasonable to clean the pipes out with thinner, lket dry, and
coat with rustoleum white and a cover of metallic latex if possible.
this maybe can solve the inetrior rust problem for the life of the
rider-if the pipes not too far gone.
so you need to take it apart to see what gives!!
i have an '87 that i am told runs like a Tuscany
the rebuild (over time) cost $400.

Sheldon Brown said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

How do I get off the cottered cranks?

A well-meaning poster gave a bunch of bad advice:

Bad day, I guess

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Loosen the nut on the cotter pin (wedge-shaped bolt) some. Thwack it
gently with a substantial mallet.

No, "gently" _never_ works. Nor does a mallet. If you don't have
access to a cotter press, you have to hit it HARD with a HAMMER.

Well, that was slightly tongue-in-cheek. But not all mallets are equal.
I have a serious persuader; the head is the size of a standard rubber
mallet, but made of lead. It'd get a cotter pin out.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Can I buy a cartridge bottom bracket for this frame?

should be no problem. It's probably English threaded, which is the
current standard.

No, it isn't. It's Raleigh threaded, 26 tpi. The only currently
available bottom bracket for this is Phil Wood, which costs considerably
more than the frame is worth.

My mistake.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | Enron's slogan: Respect, Communication, Integrity, and
_`\(,_ | Excellence.
(_)/ (_) |

The unstoppable Sheldon Brown sayeth:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

No, it isn't. It's Raleigh threaded, 26 tpi. The only currently
available bottom bracket for this is Phil Wood, which costs considerably
more than the frame is worth.

My mistake.

Mine to- I had forgotten that I'd run a 24tpi tap through the BB
threads on my Raleigh single-speeder. So far, the bottom bracket's
stayed in place.

Jeff

that's 400 plus tools...

The Eye said:

I did a bit of dumpster driving recently and brought home this Raleigh
Record frame.

Here are a group of pictures http://family.technoscribe.net/record.html

I am not that knowledgeable about bikes/models so I am not sure whether I
should invest any time or money.

My plan is to make this into a road style single speed bike. I have the
handle bars, brakes, wheels, etc

Should I do it at all?

How do I get off the cottered cranks?

Can I buy a cartridge bottom bracket for this frame?

Any other information or thoughts would be appreciated.

If that sticker on the seat tube once said "Reynolds 531", get it
re-enamelled and keep it. Otherwise it might make a handy boat anchor.

Quoted message said:

The unstoppable Sheldon Brown sayeth:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

No, it isn't. It's Raleigh threaded, 26 tpi. The only currently
available bottom bracket for this is Phil Wood, which costs considerably
more than the frame is worth.

JeffWills said:

Mine to- I had forgotten that I'd run a 24tpi tap through the BB
threads on my Raleigh single-speeder. So far, the bottom bracket's
stayed in place.

Ditto . I what-the-heck ran a 24tpi tap through mine in
1972. Hasn't been any trouble with the same TA cups I
installed then.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

off course andrew never rides this pig