"Sweet Spot"

I think the chart is saying that the closer to your threshold power (or above it), the less duration you can hold???

whoawhoa said:

Interesting chart made by Andy Coggan-http://www.rongilcreast.com/ACoggan_New_Training_Levels_chart.htm

Think this means I should taper off the high-level z4 work and do more high l3/lowl4 stuff?

BlueJersey said:

I think the chart is saying that the closer to your threshold power (or above it), the less duration you can hold???

Well, that's part of it, but I was talking about the curve marked "overal training effect (increase in threshold power" where the top of the curve is around the border between l3 and l4.

whoawhoa said:

Interesting chart made by Andy Coggan-http://www.rongilcreast.com/ACoggan_New_Training_Levels_chart.htm

Think this means I should taper off the high-level z4 work and do more high l3/lowl4 stuff?

There was a fair amount of discussion about this on the wattage list awhile back and I think that was the general idea.

After a little inadvertent time off, I changed my threshold training from doing 2x20s all-out twice a week and one L5 workout to one tempo ride and two 3x20 workouts. I don't do the 3x20s as hard as I used to do the 2x20s. Basically, I'm trading some intensity for some volume and less recovery needed.

Squint said:

There was a fair amount of discussion about this on the wattage list awhile back and I think that was the general idea.

After a little inadvertent time off, I changed my threshold training from doing 2x20s all-out twice a week and one L5 workout to one tempo ride and two 3x20 workouts. I don't do the 3x20s as hard as I used to do the 2x20s. Basically, I'm trading some intensity for some volume and less recovery needed.

Do you feel this is working better? I'm considering doing a similar swap. I have plenty of time to rack up 16-18 hour weeks.

whoawhoa said:

Interesting chart made by Andy Coggan-http://www.rongilcreast.com/ACoggan_New_Training_Levels_chart.htm

Think this means I should taper off the high-level z4 work and do more high l3/lowl4 stuff?

Here's a Pez article to go along with the graph.

http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/default.asp?pg=fullstory&id=3232

Earlier this season I did 7 weeks of "sweet spot" training and increased my 20 min power 6.5%. I progressed from 60-90 minute intervals over the 7 weeks.

Thorman said:

Here's a Pez article to go along with the graph.

pezcyclingnews.comdefault.aspOpen ↗

Earlier this season I did 7 weeks of "sweet spot" training and increased my 20 min power 6.5%. I progressed from 60-90 minute intervals over the 7 weeks.

Interesting. It covers a pretty wide area, so I think I may try to do a variety of training that falls in this area. 60-90 minute intervals as well as 3ish hr tempo rides and maybe the 3x20's squint mentioned. I may do 1 set of full-power 2x20's after my rest day each week.

Wait a minute, that's just a new way to say the same thing about doing long base miles during the off season??? With some occassional L3 and L4 stuff thrown in??? With more emphasis on L4 stuff now with increased duration??

Thorman said:

Here's a Pez article to go along with the graph.

pezcyclingnews.comdefault.aspOpen ↗

Earlier this season I did 7 weeks of "sweet spot" training and increased my 20 min power 6.5%. I progressed from 60-90 minute intervals over the 7 weeks.

No, it's not. They are fairly hard rides 3-4 times a week and in L3/L4. Not L1/2 for hours on end with some L3/4 sprinkled in.

Adding some intensity to traditional base training doesn't make base training effective. It just makes it less ineffective.

BlueJersey said:

Wait a minute, that's just a new way to say the same thing about doing long base miles during the off season??? With some occassional L3 and L4 stuff thrown in??? With more emphasis on L4 stuff now with increased duration??

It's only been a week. After my 1.5 weeks off, I rode L1/2 for a few days, then a tempo ride, and then lower L4 3x20s. Right now I'm at 95% my best 20 min power. I'll be sure to share my experience a few weeks from now.

So far, I like the approach and hope it's at least as effective as my old routine.

whoawhoa said:

Do you feel this is working better? I'm considering doing a similar swap. I have plenty of time to rack up 16-18 hour weeks.

Squint said:

No, it's not. They are fairly hard rides 3-4 times a week and in L3/L4. Not L1/2 for hours on end with some L3/4 sprinkled in.

Adding some intensity to traditional base training doesn't make base training effective. It just makes it less ineffective.

Exactly. This is more of the Lydiard approach, solid amounts of miles at quality intensity.

What a cool chart! It would mean a heckuva lot more to me if I knew what my "functional threshold power" was. How do I know if I am at my functional threshold power?

SoFlaPedaler said:

What a cool chart! It would mean a heckuva lot more to me if I knew what my "functional threshold power" was. How do I know if I am at my functional threshold power?

You buy a powermeter like an SRM or a powertap.

Clearly I'll need a power meter. Been trying to decide which one.
A better question would have been: What is the definition of functional threshold power? Is it the maximum power level that you can sustain for relatively long periods?

SoFlaPedaler said:

Clearly I'll need a power meter. Been trying to decide which one.
A better question would have been: What is the definition of functional threshold power? Is it the maximum power level that you can sustain for relatively long periods?

1 hr max power

SoFlaPedaler said:

What is the definition of functional threshold power? Is it the maximum power level that you can sustain for relatively long periods?

http://www.cyclingpeakssoftware.com/threshold.html

acoggan said:

cyclingpeakssoftware.comthreshold.htmlOpen ↗

Thank you Dr. Coggan!

I think I am getting good result right now. Just did 3x10 L4 interval on the trainer. Averaging 245w (last year LT power at TT effort). Average HR was 167. LT HR is about 175 to 180. On Sunday I did 3 x 20 with an average power of 230w (rolling terrain). I am very surprised I could even complete these intervals at all. Current weight is about 135lb.

whoawhoa said:

Interesting chart made by Andy Coggan-http://www.rongilcreast.com/ACoggan_New_Training_Levels_chart.htm

Think this means I should taper off the high-level z4 work and do more high l3/lowl4 stuff?

Thorman said:

Here's a Pez article to go along with the graph.

pezcyclingnews.comdefault.aspOpen ↗

Earlier this season I did 7 weeks of "sweet spot" training and increased my 20 min power 6.5%. I progressed from 60-90 minute intervals over the 7 weeks.

I just spent 90 min in the sweet spot on friday and again today. Friday was at 87% FT and today was at 92% FT. The interesting thing was that the last 10 minutes seemed the easiest. I guess knowing the end was near helped. I am going to block it with 2x20 at 100% FT tomorrow, and 3x10 at 105% on Wednesday.

I'm totally sold on the virtues of FT training and the benefits over a 'traditional base' period. However I am struggling to get a grip on the principles of how to structure a training plan using this methodology. I'm really hoping that Dr Coggans book will clarify this for me, I have one on pre-order from amazon. I can't wait to receive it.

Regards,

Mac