Technical Handlebar Question

Quoted message said:

I decided to try out a different set of handlebars
on my bike. The verdict has not come in yet on whether or not I like
them

I snipped a buncha stuff, not including any mention of that type of
handlebars she installed...? From the context, I'm guessing she's
referring to "butterfly" or "trekking" bars.

Quoted message said:

If they don't work for me, I'll get my drop bars put back on when I
get back to Haikou and find myself figuring out what to do with them

On Sheldon Brown's webpage
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/deakins/handlebars.html

That's Tom's page, not mine. I have not yet tried this style of bar on
any of my own bikes, though they do look to have real virtues.

Quoted message said:

the brakes and
shifters are in a different place than on my bike's new handlebars.
Mine are on the inner set of flats. His are pictured on the outside
set.

Is one of the two wrong?

No.

Quoted message said:

Are both right?

Yes. Tom's setup is unusually unusual, because he has installed
drop-bar type brake levers. These bars are more often used with upright
bar ("mountain bike"😉 type levers. The location Tom chose is probably
the only suitable place for _that type_ of levers, due to the fact that
they curve toward the handlebar.

Quoted message said:

Is it also acceptable to have the brakes and shifters mounted on the
closer-in flat spots? Cause that's where they are right now.

If you can reach the controls easily, and they work well, allowing
reasonable brake lever travel in particular, there's no problem.

This style of bars can be installed lots of different ways. Indeed,
Tom's installation has them facing in the opposite way from many
installations.

Quoted message said:

Or, before I leave for my tour, should I come into the shop with a
printout of the picture on Sheldon's and have him move the brakes
(which could potentially be a bit of a pain since they've already put
the foam tape on).

The other thing is that Sheldon says you would typically replace the
stem with a slightly _shorter_ one when changing from drop bars to
these, and, after a very short bit of riding we replaced it with a
significantly _longer_ one (that I previously owned, thus proving
packrat-ism to be a useful skill) to counter extreme wrist pain..

I'd suggest putting the brakes on the part of the bar you'll be spending
most time holding on to. Tom's setup is predicated on spending most of
the time on the front end of the bars.

In any case, these bars are VERY versatile, and you should set them up
in the way that works for YOU, not necessarily try to copy somebody
else's setup. Tom's specific setup only works with drop bar levers.

Sheldon "Float Like A Trekking Bar" Brown
+-----------------------------------------------+
| I will be appearing in the Christmas Revels |
| Cambridge, Massachusetts http://revels.org |
+-----------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

I posted this same message to rec.bicycles.misc, and then decided that
perhaps this might be a better place to ask this question. Not exactly
a crosspost (ie, if you respond, it won't go both places) but basically
the same message.

You are multi-posting and it is never appropriate.
Cross-posting can be perfectly acceptable. Next time
consider cross-posting when you think that two or more
forums will be appropriate, and think that the denizens of
the various forums will be well disposed toward your
article.

--
Michael Press

Michael Press said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

I posted this same message to rec.bicycles.misc, and then decided that
perhaps this might be a better place to ask this question. Not exactly
a crosspost (ie, if you respond, it won't go both places) but basically
the same message.

You are multi-posting and it is never appropriate.
Cross-posting can be perfectly acceptable. Next time
consider cross-posting when you think that two or more
forums will be appropriate, and think that the denizens of
the various forums will be well disposed toward your
article.

Give her a break, she explained why she did it.

Jeff

Sheldon Brown said:

Quoted message said:

I decided to try out a different set of handlebars
on my bike. The verdict has not come in yet on whether or not I like
them

I snipped a buncha stuff, not including any mention of that type of
handlebars she installed...? From the context, I'm guessing she's
referring to "butterfly" or "trekking" bars.

I will look sheepish now and attempt to melt into the wall.

Yes, those would be the ones I am referring to.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If they don't work for me, I'll get my drop bars put back on when I
get back to Haikou and find myself figuring out what to do with them

On Sheldon Brown's webpage
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/deakins/handlebars.html

That's Tom's page, not mine. I have not yet tried this style of bar on
any of my own bikes, though they do look to have real virtues.

Oops. Sorry about that.

I've yet to see anything other than well-informed, well-written
messages that seem to tell me everything I ever wanted to know and then
some on pages in the domain www.sheldonbrown.com whether or not they
were written by Sheldon himself or by another author. 🙂

(no really... and its where I go for English language reference)
(I can talk more knowledgeably about bikes in Chinese than I can in
English, and English is my native language!)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the brakes and
shifters are in a different place than on my bike's new handlebars.
Mine are on the inner set of flats. His are pictured on the outside
set.

Is one of the two wrong?

No.

Quoted message said:

Are both right?

Yes.

<whew> With two sources that I consider to be unusually knowledgeable
about everything I was faced with the dilemma that one of them might be
_wrong_.

Quoted message said:

Tom's setup is unusually unusual, because he has installed
drop-bar type brake levers. These bars are more often used with upright
bar ("mountain bike"😉 type levers. The location Tom chose is probably
the only suitable place for _that type_ of levers, due to the fact that
they curve toward the handlebar.

Looking more closely at the picture, I see what you mean. Not just a
different place, but indeed, a different kind of brake.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Is it also acceptable to have the brakes and shifters mounted on the
closer-in flat spots? Cause that's where they are right now.

If you can reach the controls easily, and they work well, allowing
reasonable brake lever travel in particular, there's no problem.

This style of bars can be installed lots of different ways. Indeed,
Tom's installation has them facing in the opposite way from many
installations.

Mine are facing the same way as in the picture. And the other bike
I've seen with them also has them facing that way. (Which has now been
seen once 'in the wild', once in pictures of a bike club friend's tour,
and in the bike shop.)

(If you squint and squidge at the picture on
http://www.giantbicycles.com/ch/030.000.000/030.000.000.asp?year=2002&range=79
and already know that they are there you might be able to imagine that
those are butterfly bars instead of somthing else.)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Or, before I leave for my tour, should I come into the shop with a
printout of the picture on Sheldon's and have him move the brakes
(which could potentially be a bit of a pain since they've already put
the foam tape on).

The other thing is that Sheldon says you would typically replace the
stem with a slightly _shorter_ one when changing from drop bars to
these, and, after a very short bit of riding we replaced it with a
significantly _longer_ one (that I previously owned, thus proving
packrat-ism to be a useful skill) to counter extreme wrist pain..

I'd suggest putting the brakes on the part of the bar you'll be spending
most time holding on to. Tom's setup is predicated on spending most of
the time on the front end of the bars.

Right now (in city riding on an unloaded bike) that seems to be the
outside edges and the inner flats. I like the outside edges more but I
haven't yet gotten accustomed to this new and different way of moving
my hands to get at the brakes.

Quoted message said:

In any case, these bars are VERY versatile, and you should set them up
in the way that works for YOU, not necessarily try to copy somebody
else's setup. Tom's specific setup only works with drop bar levers.

I put trekker bars (from Wallbike) on my wife's Breezer Liberty, to
give her more hand positions and a main position a few centimeters
closer. We took her existing dogleg brakes and finger-thumb shifters
and put them on the long, near flat section of the bar, near where the
bar tubing ends. I taped the bar all around, with gel pads under the
tape. She uses the outside curve position most commonly, especially
after I adjusted the bar angle to minimize wrist bending when she
grips it.

She loves the bike and the bars, so I'm a happy man.

Ken

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Sheldon Brown said:

Quoted message said:

I decided to try out a different set of handlebars
on my bike. The verdict has not come in yet on whether or not I
like
them

I snipped a buncha stuff, not including any mention of that type of
handlebars she installed...? From the context, I'm guessing she's
referring to "butterfly" or "trekking" bars.

I will look sheepish now and attempt to melt into the wall.

Yes, those would be the ones I am referring to.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If they don't work for me, I'll get my drop bars put back on
when I
get back to Haikou and find myself figuring out what to do with
them

On Sheldon Brown's webpage
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/deakins/handlebars.html

That's Tom's page, not mine. I have not yet tried this style of
bar on
any of my own bikes, though they do look to have real virtues.

Oops. Sorry about that.

I've yet to see anything other than well-informed, well-written
messages that seem to tell me everything I ever wanted to know and
then
some on pages in the domain www.sheldonbrown.com whether or not they
were written by Sheldon himself or by another author. 🙂

(no really... and its where I go for English language reference)
(I can talk more knowledgeably about bikes in Chinese than I can in
English, and English is my native language!)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the brakes and
shifters are in a different place than on my bike's new
handlebars.
Mine are on the inner set of flats. His are pictured on the
outside
set.

Is one of the two wrong?

No.

Quoted message said:

Are both right?

Yes.

<whew> With two sources that I consider to be unusually
knowledgeable
about everything I was faced with the dilemma that one of them might
be
_wrong_.

Quoted message said:

Tom's setup is unusually unusual, because he has installed
drop-bar type brake levers. These bars are more often used with
upright
bar ("mountain bike"😉 type levers. The location Tom chose is
probably
the only suitable place for _that type_ of levers, due to the fact
that
they curve toward the handlebar.

Looking more closely at the picture, I see what you mean. Not just
a
different place, but indeed, a different kind of brake.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Is it also acceptable to have the brakes and shifters mounted
on the
closer-in flat spots? Cause that's where they are right now.

If you can reach the controls easily, and they work well, allowing
reasonable brake lever travel in particular, there's no problem.

This style of bars can be installed lots of different ways.
Indeed,
Tom's installation has them facing in the opposite way from many
installations.

Mine are facing the same way as in the picture. And the other bike
I've seen with them also has them facing that way. (Which has now
been
seen once 'in the wild', once in pictures of a bike club friend's
tour,
and in the bike shop.)

(If you squint and squidge at the picture on
http://www.giantbicycles.com/ch/030.000.000/030.000.000.asp?year=2002&range=79
and already know that they are there you might be able to imagine
that
those are butterfly bars instead of somthing else.)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Or, before I leave for my tour, should I come into the shop
with a
printout of the picture on Sheldon's and have him move the brakes
(which could potentially be a bit of a pain since they've already
put
the foam tape on).

The other thing is that Sheldon says you would typically
replace the
stem with a slightly _shorter_ one when changing from drop bars
to
these, and, after a very short bit of riding we replaced it with
a
significantly _longer_ one (that I previously owned, thus proving
packrat-ism to be a useful skill) to counter extreme wrist pain..

I'd suggest putting the brakes on the part of the bar you'll be
spending
most time holding on to. Tom's setup is predicated on spending
most of
the time on the front end of the bars.

Right now (in city riding on an unloaded bike) that seems to be the
outside edges and the inner flats. I like the outside edges more
but I
haven't yet gotten accustomed to this new and different way of
moving
my hands to get at the brakes.

Quoted message said:

In any case, these bars are VERY versatile, and you should set them
up
in the way that works for YOU, not necessarily try to copy somebody
else's setup. Tom's specific setup only works with drop bar
levers.

Michael Press said:

You are multi-posting and it is never appropriate.
Cross-posting can be perfectly acceptable. Next time
consider cross-posting when you think that two or more
forums will be appropriate, and think that the denizens of
the various forums will be well disposed toward your
article.

Crossposting is, however, impossible to do if you decide that an extra
group would be appropriate after you send the first try. So take it easy,
friend. Marian's hostile enough to .tech-ies without people sniping back
at her.

Jasper

In article <[email hidden]>,

Jasper Janssen said:

Michael Press said:

You are multi-posting and it is never appropriate.
Cross-posting can be perfectly acceptable. Next time
consider cross-posting when you think that two or more
forums will be appropriate, and think that the denizens of
the various forums will be well disposed toward your
article.

Crossposting is, however, impossible to do if you decide that an extra
group would be appropriate after you send the first try. So take it easy,
friend. Marian's hostile enough to .tech-ies without people sniping back
at her.

Could cross post the second article.

If the original poster is hostile, then you are trying to appease her.

I do not accept your characterization of `sniping'.

--
Michael Press

Jasper Janssen said:

Michael Press said:

You are multi-posting and it is never appropriate.
Cross-posting can be perfectly acceptable. Next time
consider cross-posting when you think that two or more
forums will be appropriate, and think that the denizens of
the various forums will be well disposed toward your
article.

Crossposting is, however, impossible to do if you decide that an extra
group would be appropriate after you send the first try. So take it easy,
friend. Marian's hostile enough to .tech-ies without people sniping back
at her.

Wow, I don't know how to respond to that without sounding hostile or
offended. Possibly because, at the very least, I do feel bothered that
somehow, in the very minimal posting record I've achieved on this group
someone feels that I'm hostile.

-M

Michael Press said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Jasper Janssen said:

Michael Press said:

You are multi-posting and it is never appropriate.
Cross-posting can be perfectly acceptable. Next time
consider cross-posting when you think that two or more
forums will be appropriate, and think that the denizens of
the various forums will be well disposed toward your
article.

Crossposting is, however, impossible to do if you decide that an
extra group would be appropriate after you send the first try. So
take it easy, friend. Marian's hostile enough to .tech-ies without
people sniping back at her.

Could cross post the second article.

If the original poster is hostile, then you are trying to appease her.

I do not accept your characterization of `sniping'.

Oh fer cripessake... Marian posted something in wreck miss, and someone
suggested she ask here.

WTH is the big deal?

--
"There is nothing worse than giving the longest of legs to the smallest of
ideas."
-- Joaquim Maria Machado de Assis (Dom Casmurro)

Michael Press said:

You are multi-posting and it is never appropriate.

Au contraire! Sometimes it is important to have two parallel
conversations on the same topic without their getting mixed...and one
should always have the opportunity to realize that an error was made
(however slight) and correct it, no?

Quoted message said:

Cross-posting can be perfectly acceptable. Next time
consider cross-posting when you think that two or more
forums will be appropriate, and think that the denizens of
the various forums will be well disposed toward your
article.

Easy to say this after the fact, but hindsight is always sharper than
the moving finger on the keyboard.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Bill Sornson said:

Michael Press said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Jasper Janssen said:

On Tue, 06 Dec 2005 02:46:45 GMT, Michael Press <[email hidden]>
wrote:
> You are multi-posting and it is never appropriate.
> Cross-posting can be perfectly acceptable. Next time
> consider cross-posting when you think that two or more
> forums will be appropriate, and think that the denizens of
> the various forums will be well disposed toward your
> article.

Crossposting is, however, impossible to do if you decide that an
extra group would be appropriate after you send the first try. So
take it easy, friend. Marian's hostile enough to .tech-ies without
people sniping back at her.

Could cross post the second article.

If the original poster is hostile, then you are trying to appease
her. I do not accept your characterization of `sniping'.

Oh fer cripessake... Marian posted something in wreck miss, and
someone suggested she ask here.

WTH is the big deal?

Maybe someone peed in someone else's helmet last (drunken) night?
--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

Squid-in-Training said:

Bill Sornson said:

Michael Press said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
Jasper Janssen <[email hidden]> wrote:

> On Tue, 06 Dec 2005 02:46:45 GMT, Michael Press <[email hidden]>
> wrote:
>> You are multi-posting and it is never appropriate.
>> Cross-posting can be perfectly acceptable. Next time
>> consider cross-posting when you think that two or more
>> forums will be appropriate, and think that the denizens of
>> the various forums will be well disposed toward your
>> article.
>
> Crossposting is, however, impossible to do if you decide that an
> extra group would be appropriate after you send the first try. So
> take it easy, friend. Marian's hostile enough to .tech-ies without
> people sniping back at her.

Could cross post the second article.

If the original poster is hostile, then you are trying to appease
her. I do not accept your characterization of `sniping'.

Oh fer cripessake... Marian posted something in wreck miss, and
someone suggested she ask here.

WTH is the big deal?

Maybe someone peed in someone else's helmet last (drunken) night?

Or _should_.

Ron

are there stones on distant mountain decents marking the gored and
deceased? arms and wrists broken ?
or is this unreported?

Quoted message said:

Wow, I don't know how to respond to that without sounding hostile or
offended. Possibly because, at the very least, I do feel bothered that
somehow, in the very minimal posting record I've achieved on this group
someone feels that I'm hostile.

Well, just a little here on this group but a bit more in crossposts that
you almost certainly entered from the rbm side. I don't mean to be
offensive, but you seem to have a very low tolerance for the Battle of the
JBs that erupts here every couple of days. My impression so far was that
you seemed to be a bit hostile to rbt-ers in general, and the way we tend
to approach things which is a bit different than most rbmers. I don't want
to make it sound more than it is, either, since your record is (as you
say) fairly small. It could just be a generally unrepresentative sample.

Jasper

Quoted message said:

are there stones on distant mountain decents marking the gored and
deceased? arms and wrists broken ?
or is this unreported?

<mode="cynic">
Anti-bike factions would never stop screaming about such events, and
local bike shops would be ill-served by having folks get scared to go
out and break things. The lack of bleating from the fuzzies tells me
that the bike shops have not needed to engage in any obfuscation.
</mode>
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Quoted message said:

Wow, I don't know how to respond to that without sounding hostile or
offended. Possibly because, at the very least, I do feel bothered that
somehow, in the very minimal posting record I've achieved on this group
someone feels that I'm hostile.

Or, and I think this may well be an option, I'm confusing you with someone
else and you weren't the one who posted the posts I was thinking of at
all. In which case I owe you a massive apology.

Jasper

Jasper Janssen said:

Quoted message said:

Wow, I don't know how to respond to that without sounding hostile or
offended. Possibly because, at the very least, I do feel bothered that
somehow, in the very minimal posting record I've achieved on this group
someone feels that I'm hostile.

Or, and I think this may well be an option, I'm confusing you with someone
else and you weren't the one who posted the posts I was thinking of at
all. In which case I owe you a massive apology.

I'm perfectly willing to be known as cantankerous and grumpy because,
sometimes I am. I just like to have done something hostile before I
get marked as such. 🙂

Apology accepted. (from your other post, what is a JB?)

-M

Marian said:

I'm perfectly willing to be known as cantankerous and grumpy because,
sometimes I am.

Cool. Now maybe you could show that /other/ grump how to fix /his/ user
name like you did.

<eg> <eg> <eg> <eg> <eg>

On 10 Dec 2005 23:53:53 -0800, "Marian" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I'm perfectly willing to be known as cantankerous and grumpy because,
sometimes I am. I just like to have done something hostile before I
get marked as such. 🙂

Yes, i can see why that would be better.

Quoted message said:

Apology accepted.

Thanks.

Quoted message said:

(from your other post, what is a JB?)

That would be either a Jobst Brandt or a Jim Beam. They're the resident
rbt tagteam who disagree violently with each other about pretty much
literally *everything*.

Jasper