Macrostructure

what a loaded question! the only thing i can say is to go get a couple books and learn them from cover to cover. that is only part of the solution, though. ask yourself what your goals are, then decide on the best way to achieve those goals. knowledge is power so learn and experiment as much as you can. there is not one plan for everyone. however, to answer your question the best i can, get on the bike and play around.

vio765 said:

what a loaded question! the only thing i can say is to go get a couple books and learn them from cover to cover. that is only part of the solution, though. ask yourself what your goals are, then decide on the best way to achieve those goals. knowledge is power so learn and experiment as much as you can. there is not one plan for everyone. however, to answer your question the best i can, get on the bike and play around.

Any books in mind? I think Andy Coggan and Hunter Allen have one coming out soon, but it probably has more to do with powermeter use than training theory.

whoawhoa said:

I was interested after Andy Coggan's comments recently that we tend to focus too much on the microstructure of training.

Good question, WW. I, too, was curious what his specific thoughts were in making that remark and I hope he's willing to expound upon them. I'm anxiously awaiting a release date and some details (heck, rumors even 🙂 ) on TSTWKT, a training planning tool that he's helped develop which should hopefully help us mind our macrostructures.

frenchyge said:

Good question, WW. I, too, was curious what his specific thoughts were in making that remark and I hope he's willing to expound upon them. I'm anxiously awaiting a release date and some details (heck, rumors even 🙂 ) on TSTWKT, a training planning tool that he's helped develop which should hopefully help us mind our macrostructures.

Yes, I'm mildly familiar with TSTWKT, and it would be one more reason for me to get a powermeter! It would be nice to plan peaks better, rather than accidentally showing up to the sunday group ride with peak form!

I first learned how to plan by reading a book called :

Theory and Methodolgy of Training, by Tudor O. Bompa

I still own this book, and refer to it on a regular basis.

I don't know if it is still good, it is pretty old, but there are few good concepts in it. But I learned that stuff almost 20 years ago, so I wouldn't be suprised to learn that this book is kinda outdated.

Bottom line, a marco-cycle consists in some phases. It could be :
- General Preparation
- Specific Preparation
- Competition

Each season should have objectives and measurable goals.

I found that having very large sheets of paper is usefull, but a good Excel Template can probably be even better.

🙂

SolarEnergy said:

I first learned how to plan by reading a book called :

Theory and Methodolgy of Training, by Tudor O. Bompa

I still own this book, and refer to it on a regular basis.

I don't know if it is still good, it is pretty old, but there are few good concepts in it. But I learned that stuff almost 20 years ago, so I wouldn't be suprised to learn that this book is kinda outdated.

Bottom line, a marco-cycle consists in some phases. It could be :
- General Preparation
- Specific Preparation
- Competition

Each season should have objectives and measurable goals.

I found that having very large sheets of paper is usefull, but a good Excel Template can probably be even better.

🙂

I don't exactly break down my season like that in name, but I can see how my training has reflected that basic structure.

Any more specific ideas?

whoawhoa said:

I don't exactly break down my season like that in name, but I can see how my training has reflected that basic structure.

Any more specific ideas?

This is a Generally the way it what works for me
Take your racing season (say16 weeks approx) or how long it is going to be, take 4 weeks after your last race as a recovery /regeneration period then go back take your first race (take a two week taper before )and go back another 18 weeks and build an intensity period of intervals from Light to EXTREME then go back (total 36 weeks now) and build up base/prep(12 weeks) of easy high cadence riding with strength building from year to year using hours instead of mileage takes care of mother nature's cruelty

whoawhoa said:

I don't exactly break down my season like that in name, but I can see how my training has reflected that basic structure.

Any more specific ideas?

You should really get a hand on that book. You don't have to buy it, just taking a look at the library should be a good start.

The progression described by Grom is excellent. It is a very safe one.

General preparation follows the little recovery after the racing season. If you have other interests, have fun doing something else. Work in the gymn, if you have injuries, take care of that. During that phase, I like to work on technical aspects. If you have to modify your seat position, buy a new bike, that is the time.

I don't get bored, or tired of riding, so I like to ride even during that phase, but some don't even bike at all, they prefer cross country skying for example.

Specific preparation, you get on the bike and start building up the physical attributes, the weapons that you'll have in the summer. For many riders, that is an Interval training buildup phase.

Between the competitions, you want to make sure you remain sharp. Bompa describes it as the competition phase. That is the trickyest phase in my opinion, because fatigue and injuries kick in a bit more, and you have to manage more issues. Set measurable goals all the way throughout all the phases, it helps givin a logical direction to your plan.

Check out Peter Coes book on training and read as much stuff by Arthur Lydiard as you can.

Other good authors on training are Vladimir Zatsiorsky, Charlie Francis, Louie Simmons, Mel Siff, Peter Keen, Veronique Billat and Charlie Walsh. Not all would agree with each other but makes you think.

Most of the books on Periodisation are nice in theory but never work in practice. Especially in a sport like cycling.

Hamish Ferguson
Cycling Coach

fergie said:

Most of the books on Periodisation are nice in theory but never work in practice. Especially in a sport like cycling.

What do you mean?

frenchyge said:

Good question, WW. I, too, was curious what his specific thoughts were in making that remark and I hope he's willing to expound upon them. I'm anxiously awaiting a release date and some details (heck, rumors even 🙂 ) on TSTWKT, a training planning tool that he's helped develop which should hopefully help us mind our macrostructures.

I don't know how much exposition is really necessary - basically, it seems to me that people all-too-frequently spend too much time obsessing about minor details such as what particular structured workout that they do or how they execute it, and too little time thinking about how it fits into the big scheme of things. One advantage of using "TSTWKT" (which is what Frank Overton, one of my beta testers, has dubbed what I'm calling the "Training Manager"😉 is that it really encourages you to think about the big picture. As for the details/potential release date, all I can really say is 1) while the Training Manager is based on what's been published in the scientific literature, I've had to take some liberties to make the approach practical enough to actually use, and 2) the goal is to incorporate it into version 2.0 of CyclingPeaks, but the release date for that is still very much up in the air.

SolarEnergy said:

What do you mean?

Periodisation is based on peaking for one event. How many cyclists are prepared to sacrifice all else just to go good one day of the season.

When I did Personal Training I spent a lot of time talking people out of doing bodybuilding. My thoughts were "why look 100% for one of the year when you can safely look 90% all the time?"

Hamish Ferguson
Cycling Coach

fergie said:

Periodisation is based on peaking for one event. How many cyclists are prepared to sacrifice all else just to go good one day of the season.

When I did Personal Training I spent a lot of time talking people out of doing bodybuilding. My thoughts were "why look 100% for one of the year when you can safely look 90% all the time?"

Hamish Ferguson
Cycling Coach

Oh, I see. I understand better.

And you know what, I agree. Euh well, I don't know much about coaching for cycling, I am a triathlon coach. And I don't put great emphasis on peaking for one event, although, there is always an event or two that are higher profile in a season.

But I can't work without a long term plan. To me, periodisation is more a methodology of planning. An occasion to have a very deep thought about what's going to happen during the season, in advance.

🙂

fergie said:

Periodisation is based on peaking for one event.

SolarEnergy said:

To me, periodisation is more a methodology of planning. An occasion to have a very deep thought about what's going to happen during the season, in advance.

How interesting. Just exactly who advocates periodisation? Why? What is the scientific (i.e., physiological) rationale? Does this person actually ride a bike?

fergie said:

Periodisation is based on peaking for one event. How many cyclists are prepared to sacrifice all else just to go good one day of the season.

When I did Personal Training I spent a lot of time talking people out of doing bodybuilding. My thoughts were "why look 100% for one of the year when you can safely look 90% all the time?"

Hamish Ferguson
Cycling Coach

I've always considered periodization to be dividing the season into different periods. Sort of like the way dictionary.com describes the word: "the division and categorization of history into periods of time for the purposes of discussion and treatment," except with training instead of history.

I agree, training all year for one goal event is not practical for most cyclists, and even if it was, probably wouldn't net the best results.

RapDaddyo said:

How interesting. Just exactly who advocates periodisation? Why? What is the scientific (i.e., physiological) rationale? Does this person actually ride a bike?

Not I said Fergie.

All for planning out ones training and racing for a period of time. Classic periodisation was where one did one type of training and then moved to another form. Interesting to note how many Western coaches still try and apply this. Especially when the Eastern sport scientists stopped doing it in the late 70s and adopted a more multi tier approach. I call it prioritisation of training where one includes all aspects of training at any time during the year but has different training priorities depending on where they are in relation to goal events.

Peter Coe did this with his son Sebastian with great success while running. In his training text it's called the Multi Tier Approach to training and makes sense. So even when I advocate that riders do a large volume of Kms in the off season they still need to do some high intesnity work. Even high milage guru Arthur Lydiard had his athletes do sprints all year round.

Hamish Ferguson
Cycling Coach

whoawhoa said:

Any books in mind? I think Andy Coggan and Hunter Allen have one coming out soon, but it probably has more to do with powermeter use than training theory.

I have studied Joe Friel's The Cyclists Training Bible and Chris Carmichael's Serious Cycling.

I am a strong advocate of periodization.
Here is Bompa's definition

Quoted post said:

Periodization is a process of dividing the annual plan into small phases of training in order to allow a program to be set into more manageable segments and to ensure a correct peaking for the main competition(s) of the year.

I advocate this.

🙂

whoawhoa said:

I agree, training all year for one goal event is not practical for most cyclists, and even if it was, probably wouldn't net the best results.

I would say that depends entirely on what that event is. If single day mass start racing is your game, then luck/fate/chaos/whatever-you-want-to-call-it plays a large enough role that you may still fall short of winning even if you're the best rider in the race and have the legs of your life. OTOH, if you're aiming for a multi-day stage race, or a race against the clock, then peaking specifically for that event is clearly the best strategy. Indeed, even those who fall in the first camp may be best off by attempting to have great "form" during a particular window(s) of time, and just squeezing in as many events as possible during this/these period(s) in hopes of maximizing the chances of winning (e.g., think of a europro attempting to do well in the spring classics). The only reason I can see for not using this approach would be if team obligations prevent it, or if you were pursuing some season-long points series (and even then you may inadvertantly find yourself peaking at one point or another, as happened to me the year I used this strategy).