Flashing lights

"Steve Hodgson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

A while ago there were a few posts about flashing lights becoming legal.
Has
this actually come into force now?

There was (i'm pretty sure) a post on this very group not long ago saying
that the law had been changed to allow a flashing light as the only light
source. As a lot of cyclists seem to think that they don't need *any*
lights then a flasher has to be better than nothing, but I would not want to
rely solely on a flasher as it's almost impossible to judge the *distance*
of a flashing light alone, so would not rely on one myself.

Steve Hodgson asked:

Quoted message said:

A while ago there were a few posts about flashing lights becoming legal. Has
this actually come into force now?

It came into force on 21/10/05:
<URL:http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2005/20052559.htm>

--
Danny Colyer (my reply address is valid but checked infrequently)
<URL:http://www.colyer.plus.com/danny/>
Subscribe to PlusNet <URL:http://www.colyer.plus.com/referral/>
"He who dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine

Adrian Boliston said:

As a lot of cyclists seem to think that they don't need *any*
lights

You presume that those without lights think. A gross misjudgement if I
may make so bold..

...d

On Tue, 01 Nov 2005 22:22:59 +0000, Danny Colyer
<[email hidden]> said in
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

It came into force on 21/10/05:
<URL:http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2005/20052559.htm>

Gaaaaah! Amendments to SIs make my head hurt. Where's Tony Raven?

OK, specifically: it looks as if the kitemarking requirement is
relaxed but *only* in respect of lamps not capable of emitting a
steady light (i.e.: almost none of them), but that the fact of a lamp
being able to emit a flashing light makes it legal whether used steady
or not. Or am I misreading it? It has been a long day....

Guy
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

"To every complex problem there is a solution which is
simple, neat and wrong" - HL Mencken

Just zis Guy said:

On Tue, 01 Nov 2005 22:22:59 +0000, Danny Colyer
<[email hidden]> said in
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

It came into force on 21/10/05:
<URL:http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2005/20052559.htm>

Gaaaaah! Amendments to SIs make my head hurt. Where's Tony Raven?

OK, specifically: it looks as if the kitemarking requirement is
relaxed but *only* in respect of lamps not capable of emitting a
steady light (i.e.: almost none of them), but that the fact of a lamp
being able to emit a flashing light makes it legal whether used steady
or not. Or am I misreading it? It has been a long day....

Here is my take which may also be wrong:

BS6102/3 is now extended to include the 1995 and 2003 updates. viz.

"(d) the mark indicated in the specification for photometric and
physical requirements for lighting equipment published by the British
Standards Institution under the reference BS 6102: Part 3: 1986 as
amended by AMD 8438 published on the 15th April 1995, namely 6102/3; or

(e) the mark indicated in the specification for photometric and
physical requirements for lighting equipment published by the British
Standards Institution under the references BS 6102: part 3: 1986 as
amended by AMD 14621 published on the 1st September 2003, namely
6102/3."

You can also have a lamp that is capable of flashing evenly at 1-4 Hz
as long as it is brighter than 4 candela.

If that light is also capable of being used in a steady mode then it
must be marked with one of the appropriate BS6102/3. So it is possible
to have two lamps that are identical in action except one can be steady
and the other not be, and the one that can be steady is not legal as a
sole light but the flash only one is. TLIAA.

There is a bunch of gumph about amber lights. Looks like my amber
tireflys may not be illegal after all..

It also looks like the definitions of vehicles for emergency services
has been broadened to include non motorised vehicles. Expect to see
police horses with flashing blue lights.

Hopefully there will be adetailed write up in Arrivee or Cycle soon.

...d

In message <[email hidden]>, "Just zis Guy,
you know?" <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

On Tue, 01 Nov 2005 22:22:59 +0000, Danny Colyer
<[email hidden]> said in
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

It came into force on 21/10/05:
<URL:http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2005/20052559.htm>

Gaaaaah! Amendments to SIs make my head hurt. Where's Tony Raven?

OK, specifically: it looks as if the kitemarking requirement is
relaxed but *only* in respect of lamps not capable of emitting a
steady light (i.e.: almost none of them),

That is certainly is what the Explanatory note for Regulation 7 says.
For 'Obligatory' lights anyway. AIUI you can fit other 'optional' lights
anyway.

So if it is an obligatory lamp it must either have an approval mark or
not have steady option (makes 'sense' in that the requirements for BS
marking haven't been removed yet) But you can also have 'optional' lamps
that can have a flashing and/or steady mode.

Quoted message said:

but that the fact of a lamp
being able to emit a flashing light makes it legal whether used steady
or not. Or am I misreading it? It has been a long day....

If you mean that any light that can flash is legal in a steady mode
then no.

If a lamp has steady mode then it must have the relevant approval mark
for the steady mode, but all the flashing element of the lamp must do is
reach the requirements of being at least 4 candela and of flashing
between 60 and 240 times/minute.

but this lamp would be legal in either flashing or steady mode.

So yep, most of the flashing LED lamps on the market will still not be
legal.

I can see why, if they weren't going to get rid of the approval marking
requirements, then they had to do this, but it has left things still in
bit of a confusing mess.
--
Chris French

In message <[email hidden]>, "Just zis Guy,
you know?" <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

On Tue, 01 Nov 2005 22:22:59 +0000, Danny Colyer
<[email hidden]> said in
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

It came into force on 21/10/05:
<URL:http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2005/20052559.htm>

Gaaaaah! Amendments to SIs make my head hurt. Where's Tony Raven?

OK, specifically: it looks as if the kitemarking requirement is
relaxed but *only* in respect of lamps not capable of emitting a
steady light (i.e.: almost none of them),

That is certainly is what the Explanatory note for Regulation 7 says.
For 'Obligatory' lights anyway. AIUI you can fit other 'optional' lights
anyway.

So if it is an obligatory lamp it must either have an approval mark or
not have steady option (makes 'sense' in that the requirements for BS
marking haven't been removed yet) But you can also have 'optional' lamps
that can have a flashing and/or steady mode.

Quoted message said:

but that the fact of a lamp
being able to emit a flashing light makes it legal whether used steady
or not. Or am I misreading it? It has been a long day....

If you mean that any light that can flash is legal in a steady mode
then no.

If a lamp has steady mode then it must have the relevant approval mark
for the steady mode, but all the flashing element of the lamp must do is
reach the requirements of being at least 4 candela and of flashing
between 60 and 240 times/minute.

but this lamp would be legal in either flashing or steady mode.

So yep, most of the flashing LED lamps on the market will still not be
legal.

I can see why, if they weren't going to get rid of the approval marking
requirements, then they had to do this, but it has left things still in
bit of a confusing mess.
--
Chris French

Just zis Guy said:

On Tue, 01 Nov 2005 22:22:59 +0000, Danny Colyer
<[email hidden]> said in
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

It came into force on 21/10/05:
<URL:http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2005/20052559.htm>

Gaaaaah! Amendments to SIs make my head hurt. Where's Tony Raven?

OK, specifically: it looks as if the kitemarking requirement is
relaxed but *only* in respect of lamps not capable of emitting a
steady light (i.e.: almost none of them), but that the fact of a lamp
being able to emit a flashing light makes it legal whether used steady
or not. Or am I misreading it? It has been a long day....

After a bit of a trawl through the maze of SI and acts I am now in
possession of all the facts. Yup, all of them on pretty printed 4 pages
per page paper.

Once I have had a chance to work my way through the plethora of facts
and figures I will attempt to put together a concise article of what is
required, what is optional and what is illegal.

This requires digesting a few hundred pages of documentation, cutting
and pasting to get all the cross references and updates right and
finally working out the answers[1]. Might even work out what the
question is whilst I am at it.

Don't hold your breath..

...d

[1] In this case the answer is 42 - nope, it is 41 in the light of 43.
I think this is getting to me.

Just zis Guy said:

On Tue, 01 Nov 2005 22:22:59 +0000, Danny Colyer
<[email hidden]> said in
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

It came into force on 21/10/05:
<URL:http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2005/20052559.htm>

Gaaaaah! Amendments to SIs make my head hurt. Where's Tony Raven?

OK, specifically: it looks as if the kitemarking requirement is
relaxed but *only* in respect of lamps not capable of emitting a
steady light (i.e.: almost none of them), but that the fact of a lamp
being able to emit a flashing light makes it legal whether used steady
or not. Or am I misreading it? It has been a long day....

After a bit of a trawl through the maze of SI and acts I am now in
possession of all the facts. Yup, all of them on pretty printed 4 pages
per page paper.

Once I have had a chance to work my way through the plethora of facts
and figures I will attempt to put together a concise article of what is
required, what is optional and what is illegal.

This requires digesting a few hundred pages of documentation, cutting
and pasting to get all the cross references and updates right and
finally working out the answers[1]. Might even work out what the
question is whilst I am at it.

Don't hold your breath..

...d

[1] In this case the answer is 42 - nope, it is 41 in the light of 43.
I think this is getting to me.

David Martin said:

Once I have had a chance to work my way through the plethora of facts and
figures I will attempt to put together a concise article of what is
required, what is optional and what is illegal.

Peeler on the beat: Anything that emits photons is fine.

Flywheel, Shyster & Flywheel: Heh, heh, heh. Your flasher flashes 3
times in 0.75 seconds then pauses for 0.5 seconds, so it's illegal and
BigInsCo will sue you for breathing, or your estate if you're no longer
breathing -- and we get 25%. Heh, heh, heh.

(The peeler is one of Chris Woodhead's new breed with a degree in physics
of course...)

Mike

David Martin said:

Once I have had a chance to work my way through the plethora of facts and
figures I will attempt to put together a concise article of what is
required, what is optional and what is illegal.

Peeler on the beat: Anything that emits photons is fine.

Flywheel, Shyster & Flywheel: Heh, heh, heh. Your flasher flashes 3
times in 0.75 seconds then pauses for 0.5 seconds, so it's illegal and
BigInsCo will sue you for breathing, or your estate if you're no longer
breathing -- and we get 25%. Heh, heh, heh.

(The peeler is one of Chris Woodhead's new breed with a degree in physics
of course...)

Mike

David Martin said:

There is a bunch of gumph about amber lights. Looks like my amber
tireflys may not be illegal after all..

So can I have a steady red and flashing amber rear lighting setup?

David Martin said:

There is a bunch of gumph about amber lights. Looks like my amber
tireflys may not be illegal after all..

So can I have a steady red and flashing amber rear lighting setup?

Zog The Undeniable said:

David Martin said:

There is a bunch of gumph about amber lights. Looks like my amber
tireflys may not be illegal after all..

So can I have a steady red and flashing amber rear lighting setup?

Don't know yet. There is a lot to go through, cross reference and
interpret. At the moment I'm not sure it is legally possible to ride a
bike at all on the road at night. And you might not even be able to get
away with pushing it either...

Hopefully I will have a clearer picture by the end of the week.

...d

Zog The Undeniable said:

David Martin said:

There is a bunch of gumph about amber lights. Looks like my amber
tireflys may not be illegal after all..

So can I have a steady red and flashing amber rear lighting setup?

Don't know yet. There is a lot to go through, cross reference and
interpret. At the moment I'm not sure it is legally possible to ride a
bike at all on the road at night. And you might not even be able to get
away with pushing it either...

Hopefully I will have a clearer picture by the end of the week.

...d

David Martin said:

It also looks like the definitions of vehicles for emergency services has
been broadened to include non motorised vehicles. Expect to see police
horses with flashing blue lights.

Police bicycles already have them.
And I saw a police horse and rider cantering across a Royal Park, and I
think it had a blue light on the harness. I could be imagining that one.

David Martin said:

It also looks like the definitions of vehicles for emergency services has
been broadened to include non motorised vehicles. Expect to see police
horses with flashing blue lights.

Police bicycles already have them.
And I saw a police horse and rider cantering across a Royal Park, and I
think it had a blue light on the harness. I could be imagining that one.

John Hearns said:

David Martin said:

It also looks like the definitions of vehicles for emergency services has
been broadened to include non motorised vehicles. Expect to see police
horses with flashing blue lights.

Police bicycles already have them.

http://www.supernova-lights.com/uk/products/t28_law/index.html

....if you have a rich police force...

--
Mark.
http://tranchant.plus.com/

John Hearns said:

David Martin said:

It also looks like the definitions of vehicles for emergency services has
been broadened to include non motorised vehicles. Expect to see police
horses with flashing blue lights.

Police bicycles already have them.

http://www.supernova-lights.com/uk/products/t28_law/index.html

....if you have a rich police force...

--
Mark.
http://tranchant.plus.com/