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Ultimate callousness

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UK and Europe
Published
5 October 2005
Last activity
17 October 2005
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Tony Raven
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  1. This one takes some beating

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hampshire/4313764.stm

    Driver, 71, denies cyclist death

    A motorist knocked down and left a cyclist dying because he was late for
    a game of bowls, a court has heard.

    Peter Cottrell, 71, of Romsey Road, Cadnam, Hants, is accused of killing
    retired policeman John Morris, 58, in the New Forest on 8 November 2004.

    Mr Cottrell, who denies manslaughter, failed to stop but drove on to the
    game, Winchester Crown Court heard.

    Mr Morris, of Ashurst, who was wearing a reflective jacket and helmet,
    died later in hospital from his injuries.

    Mr Cottrell also denies perverting the course of justice.

    The prosecution told jurors on Wednesday that Mr Morris may have
    survived had Mr Cottrell stopped and dialled 999.

    Bike imprint

    Instead, he lay seriously injured at the side of the road in the village
    of Newbridge for more than 20 minutes until he was found by another driver.

    Paramedics arrived 10 minutes later and worked for half an hour to
    revive him, but he was pronounced dead at Southampton General Hospital.

    Mr Morris' bike left an imprint in Mr Cottrell's Mazda car, debris was
    littered across the road and the wing mirror also came off, the court heard.

    The prosecution said the day after the crash Mr Cottrell took his car to
    be repaired, but police officers had already found the wing mirror and
    knew it was from a Mazda vehicle.

    They contacted a Mazda parts depot and discovered which garage ordered a
    new mirror, which led them to arrest Mr Cottrell.

    The trial continues.
    --
    Tony

    "I did make a mistake once - I thought I'd made a mistake but I hadn't"
    Anon

  2. Tony Raven said:

    This one takes some beating

    The trial continues.


    It certainly does. Sickening.

    The 'game of bowls' comment is just journalistic spin.
    "Mr Cottrell also denies perverting the course of justice."
    I take that as him being accused of trying to cover up what he'd done
    by getting the car repaired.

  3. In article said:
    Tony Raven said:

    This one takes some beating

    The trial continues.


    It certainly does. Sickening.

    The 'game of bowls' comment is just journalistic spin.
    "Mr Cottrell also denies perverting the course of justice."
    I take that as him being accused of trying to cover up what he'd done
    by getting the car repaired.

    When they say "who denies manslaughter", is he denying doing it,
    or denying it was manslaughter ("merely" causing death by dangerous
    driving, or even just failing to stop at/report an accident)?
    The "denies cyclist death" headline implies the former, but the rest
    of the article reads more as if it's clear he did it.

  4. Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    The "denies cyclist death" headline implies the former

    Perhaps he's heard he can get away with it if he claims he "can't
    remember" who was driving at the time?

  5. On Thu, 06 Oct 2005 00:10:04 +0100 someone who may be Tony Raven
    <[email hidden]> wrote this:-

    Quoted message said:

    Mr Morris, of Ashurst, who was wearing a reflective jacket and helmet,
    died later in hospital from his injuries.

    Had he not been then no doubt the BBC would be telling everyone that
    he would have lived had he been wearing these.

    --
    David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
    I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
    prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

  6. Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Mr Morris, of Ashurst, who was wearing a reflective jacket and helmet,
    died later in hospital from his injuries.

    Quoted message said:

    Had he not been then no doubt the BBC would be telling everyone that
    he would have lived had he been wearing these.

    But as it was, he died as a result of riding dangerously, by way of
    risk compensation for wearing said articles....

  7. We have been commenting on incidents like this for ages. We will sadly
    continue to comment on them in the future - because nothing is going
    to change.

    Two weeks ago I rode along the Barmouth to Trawsfynydd road in North
    Wales, that is a mistake I will never make again, and it was touch and
    go that I would ever have had the choice again! I have been cycling
    for over 44 years now and frankly I was terrified, and that is the
    right word, terrified. It is a two lane carriageway and the speed and
    lack of driving skills were criminal. I also was wearing a reflective
    jacket and a helmet. I soon realised that meant nothing really. The
    attitude is 'I pay to be on this road you don't so **** you'. What
    these morons don't understand is that the roads are funded by general
    taxation and so everyone pays.

    Its crossed my mind to give up - but cycling is something I love so
    much but then again I suppose it just reflects on life in general as
    many are just self centred, selfish [censored] that care only for
    themselves.

  8. "David Hansen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Thu, 06 Oct 2005 00:10:04 +0100 someone who may be Tony Raven
    <[email hidden]> wrote this:-

    Quoted message said:

    Mr Morris, of Ashurst, who was wearing a reflective jacket and helmet,
    died later in hospital from his injuries.

    Had he not been then no doubt the BBC would be telling everyone that
    he would have lived had he been wearing these.

    --
    David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
    I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
    prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

    I commented on this when it happened ( see old thread "Giving up"😉. I'm glad
    they're throwing the book at the self-centred [censored] - I just hope they'd
    do it for any of us; not just retired policemen; although to be fair
    Hampshire police seem to take this sort of thing fairly seriously.

    Julia

  9. "nobody760" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    We have been commenting on incidents like this for ages. We will sadly
    continue to comment on them in the future - because nothing is going
    to change.

    Two weeks ago I rode along the Barmouth to Trawsfynydd road in North
    Wales, that is a mistake I will never make again, and it was touch and
    go that I would ever have had the choice again! I have been cycling
    for over 44 years now and frankly I was terrified, and that is the
    right word, terrified. It is a two lane carriageway and the speed and
    lack of driving skills were criminal. I also was wearing a reflective
    jacket and a helmet. I soon realised that meant nothing really. The
    attitude is 'I pay to be on this road you don't so **** you'. What
    these morons don't understand is that the roads are funded by general
    taxation and so everyone pays.

    Its crossed my mind to give up - but cycling is something I love so
    much but then again I suppose it just reflects on life in general as
    many are just self centred, selfish [censored] that care only for
    themselves.

    Last Thursday I ended up on the A148 King's Lynn to Fakenham road. Basically
    I mis-read the map for a turning I was due to take, and thought that instead
    of backtracking, I'd just pop along the A148. Bad move. Stupid, stupid,
    stupid. It is a wide two lane carriageway. I have never been so scared in my
    entire life. I will not willingly cycle along there ever again. Ever. Even
    though the road was wide, too many damn fools thought that they didn't need
    to give me room when overtaking me. Cars going by within an inch of me doing
    speeds well over the NSL is Not Fun. When I was given plenty of room by
    vehicles, I'd acknowledge the courtesy with a 'thank you' wave. Sadly, too
    many appeared to be totally oblivious to the cyclist in the fluorescent
    yellow acres of cloth... obviously a cloak of invisiblity... The worst was a
    motorhome who just missed me and could have been minus a wing mirror. If
    anyone is planning on cycling in Norfolk - the A148 is to be avoided.

    Cheers, helen s

  10. Quoted message said:

    The "denies cyclist death" headline implies the former


    Sounds like the driver is denying the cyclist is dead:
    "No no he's not dead, he's, he's restin'! Remarkable copper, the New
    Forest Boy in Blue, innt'e, ay? Beautiful helmet!"

  11. "wafflycat" <waffles*$*A**T*v21net$*££*D*O*T*co*D£$£*O*T*uk> wrote in
    message news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "nobody760" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    We have been commenting on incidents like this for ages. We will sadly
    continue to comment on them in the future - because nothing is going
    to change.

    Two weeks ago I rode along the Barmouth to Trawsfynydd road in North
    Wales, that is a mistake I will never make again, and it was touch and
    go that I would ever have had the choice again! I have been cycling
    for over 44 years now and frankly I was terrified, and that is the
    right word, terrified. It is a two lane carriageway and the speed and
    lack of driving skills were criminal. I also was wearing a reflective
    jacket and a helmet. I soon realised that meant nothing really. The
    attitude is 'I pay to be on this road you don't so **** you'. What
    these morons don't understand is that the roads are funded by general
    taxation and so everyone pays.

    Its crossed my mind to give up - but cycling is something I love so
    much but then again I suppose it just reflects on life in general as
    many are just self centred, selfish [censored] that care only for
    themselves.

    Last Thursday I ended up on the A148 King's Lynn to Fakenham road.


    Basically

    Quoted message said:

    I mis-read the map for a turning I was due to take, and thought that


    instead

    Quoted message said:

    of backtracking, I'd just pop along the A148. Bad move. Stupid, stupid,
    stupid. It is a wide two lane carriageway. I have never been so scared in


    my

    Quoted message said:

    entire life. I will not willingly cycle along there ever again. Ever. Even
    though the road was wide, too many damn fools thought that they didn't


    need

    Quoted message said:

    to give me room when overtaking me. Cars going by within an inch of me


    doing

    Quoted message said:

    speeds well over the NSL is Not Fun. When I was given plenty of room by
    vehicles, I'd acknowledge the courtesy with a 'thank you' wave. Sadly, too
    many appeared to be totally oblivious to the cyclist in the fluorescent
    yellow acres of cloth... obviously a cloak of invisiblity... The worst was


    a

    Quoted message said:

    motorhome who just missed me and could have been minus a wing mirror. If
    anyone is planning on cycling in Norfolk - the A148 is to be avoided.

    Cheers, helen s

    Nearby we have a traffic calming scheme with two islands jutting out from
    the curb either side of the road about 100 metres apart.The game played by
    the moronic cretins around here is to proceed at all costs when approaching
    the traffic calmers.Bikes!!Just keep going and squeeze the cyclist to
    death.Even moving out into the centre of the carriageway to discourage them
    doesn't work,still they keep coming.
    Slowing down and perhaps stopping would of course make them five seconds
    late at their destination.

    Sam Salt

  12. wafflycat said:


    Last Thursday I ended up on the A148 King's Lynn to Fakenham road.
    Basically I mis-read the map for a turning I was due to take, and
    thought that instead of backtracking, I'd just pop along the A148. Bad
    move. Stupid, stupid, stupid. It is a wide two lane carriageway. I have
    never been so scared in my entire life. I will not willingly cycle along
    there ever again. Ever. Even though the road was wide, too many damn
    fools thought that they didn't need to give me room when overtaking me.
    Cars going by within an inch of me doing speeds well over the NSL is Not
    Fun. When I was given plenty of room by vehicles, I'd acknowledge the
    courtesy with a 'thank you' wave. Sadly, too many appeared to be totally
    oblivious to the cyclist in the fluorescent yellow acres of cloth...
    obviously a cloak of invisiblity... The worst was a motorhome who just
    missed me and could have been minus a wing mirror. If anyone is planning
    on cycling in Norfolk - the A148 is to be avoided.

    Cheers, helen s

    Given the number of deaths that occur on that road every year, it's not
    a bundle of laughs to drive on either. I used to use it when I visited
    my Mum in Sheringham - but minor roads cross country are much nicer, so
    it's on my list of "avoids" now, with A140, A149, A1065, A47 and A11.

    Chris

  13. sothach said:
    Quoted message said:

    The "denies cyclist death" headline implies the former


    Sounds like the driver is denying the cyclist is dead:
    "No no he's not dead, he's, he's restin'! Remarkable copper, the New
    Forest Boy in Blue, innt'e, ay? Beautiful helmet!"

    Anyone for a CM from the bowls club to the scene of the accident? ;-(

  14. MartinM said:

    Anyone for a CM from the bowls club to the scene of the
    accident? ;-(

    Sounds like a good idea. Though AIUI it technically wouldn't be a CM as
    there would be a planned route. It might get a message across though.

    --
    Dave...

  15. sothach said:


    Quoted message said:

    The "denies cyclist death" headline implies the former


    Sounds like the driver is denying the cyclist is dead:

    Pehaps the judge is the President of his Bowls Club so he knows he can
    get away with anything
    :-(

    John B

  16. John Hearns said:
    Tony Raven said:

    This one takes some beating

    The trial continues.


    It certainly does. Sickening.

    The 'game of bowls' comment is just journalistic spin.
    "Mr Cottrell also denies perverting the course of justice."
    I take that as him being accused of trying to cover up what he'd done
    by getting the car repaired.

    Nah, probably means he tried to convince someone to lie for him and was
    either shopped or triped up by the lie. Of course they would have
    impounded the car and done a forensic exam so any would be perjurer was
    bound to come unstuck.

    Sniper8052

  17. sothach said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Mr Morris, of Ashurst, who was wearing a reflective jacket and helmet,
    died later in hospital from his injuries.

    Quoted message said:

    Had he not been then no doubt the BBC would be telling everyone that
    he would have lived had he been wearing these.

    But as it was, he died as a result of riding dangerously, by way of
    risk compensation for wearing said articles....


    Or the risk compensation due to being an ex-copper, IIRC police officers
    and recently retired officers have a greater RTI rate than mere mortals...

  18. "Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Instead, he lay seriously injured at the side of the road in the village
    of Newbridge for more than 20 minutes until he was found by another
    driver.

    This is particularly bad news for the Gridiron 2005 100 km Randonee. This
    weekend, on Sunday 9-Oct-2005, the Gridiron crosses Cadnam Common and passes
    thru Newbridge, where Peter Cottrell, of Romsey Road, Cadnam, Hants,
    slaughtered John Morris of Ashurst.

    The Gridiron is a very popular event in the Forest. This year, participants
    may well pause in Newbridge, to consider that the Peter Cottrells of this
    world are "Bowling for Cadnam", and have only murder in their hearts.

    Clyde.

  19. dkahn400 said:
    MartinM said:

    Anyone for a CM from the bowls club to the scene of the
    accident? ;-(

    Sounds like a good idea. Though AIUI it technically wouldn't be a CM as
    there would be a planned route. It might get a message across though

    yebbut as the case is sub judice you'd probably be done for perverting
    the course of justus or similar; these things need to be done soon
    after the event to have real effect which is where the London CM has
    been effective recently.

  20. On Thu, 06 Oct 2005 16:01:44 +0100, Chris Smith <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:
    wafflycat said:

    Last Thursday I ended up on the A148 King's Lynn to Fakenham road.


    snip

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Given the number of deaths that occur on that road every year, it's not
    a bundle of laughs to drive on either. I used to use it when I visited
    my Mum in Sheringham - but minor roads cross country are much nicer, so
    it's on my list of "avoids" now, with A140, A149, A1065, A47 and A11.


    I too have driven that road (though never cycled it) and often thought
    that it must be a dreadful road to ride on. Given that Helen road it
    during September / October - I would hate to think what it must be like on
    a Saturday in July / August.
    It does seem to get a number of 'continental looking' touring cyclists on
    it - what impression they take away I hate to think

    Mike - Leicester

    --
    Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

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