Lane question

In article <[email hidden]>,

Hell and High Water said:

Two lanes going one direction.

Two lanes going the other direction.

Grass median in between.

I'm riding in the right of two lanes going the same direction.

I've found that when I ride on the right side of the right lane, cars
will occasionally fly by me, essentially in the right lane. They swerve
just a bit over into the left lane, but most of the
car/tires/mirror/etc. is in the right lane.

Remember, this is two lanes going the SAME direction, so they're not
having to cross into oncoming traffic.

Now...

If I'm riding over to the LEFT of the RIGHT LANE... (Hope that makes
sense.)

Cars don't really have the option of 'straight lining it.'

They HAVE to move entirely to the left lane to get around me. Also,
there's not enough room in the RIGHT lane for them to get around me to
the right. I seem to OWN the right lane. It's mine and I can do
whatever I want with it. There's is the left lane...

On top of all this, I'm 6' 5", and I wear BRIGHT RED jerseys. There's
very little chance of them not seeing me.

My question:

When you're riding in the right lane of two, which side of that lane do
you ride on and why?

Thoughts/suggestions/life_saving_tips?

There's a sweet spot to be in, where cars will pass
you with enough clearance, and without their having
to move entirely into the next lane over. If you're
too far to the left of the right lane, chances are
you'll get some knuckleheads trying to pass you on
the right. Maybe try riding just to the left of
the right tire mark on the pavement (between the
tire mark and the oily strip down the middle.) Or
you might not even have to move that far to the left
to keep the cars from buzzing you.

Your description of the street greatly reminds me
of Vancouver's King Edward Boulevard. The grassy
median fools some drivers into thinking the two
lanes on one side are 2-way, so they end up driving
the wrong way.

Watch out for cars pulling utility trailers with
stuff hanging over the side.

cheers,
Tom
--
-- Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

Hell and High Water said:

Two lanes going one direction.

Two lanes going the other direction.

Grass median in between.

I'm riding in the right of two lanes going the same direction.

I've found that when I ride on the right side of the right lane, cars
will occasionally fly by me, essentially in the right lane. They swerve
just a bit over into the left lane, but most of the
car/tires/mirror/etc. is in the right lane.

Remember, this is two lanes going the SAME direction, so they're not
having to cross into oncoming traffic.

Now...

If I'm riding over to the LEFT of the RIGHT LANE... (Hope that makes
sense.)

Cars don't really have the option of 'straight lining it.'

They HAVE to move entirely to the left lane to get around me. Also,
there's not enough room in the RIGHT lane for them to get around me to
the right. I seem to OWN the right lane. It's mine and I can do
whatever I want with it. There's is the left lane...

On top of all this, I'm 6' 5", and I wear BRIGHT RED jerseys. There's
very little chance of them not seeing me.

My question:

When you're riding in the right lane of two, which side of that lane do
you ride on and why?

Thoughts/suggestions/life_saving_tips?

TIA,

-Bianchi Bob

Bad idea.

1. drivers may try and squeeze between you and the curb, especially if
they're planning to turn right and the right hand turn lane is coming up
and you're riding a bit slow.
2. abusive drivers may actually try and buzz you to your right, and with a
clear line of sight out the driver's window, can 'near miss' by an inch or
less.
3. inattentive drivers in the left (passing) lane may drift over the line
to their right and hit you by accident.

Best, imo, to ride in the right (slow) lane in the right-most tire track. A
driver will normally leave about 3-4 feet on their passenger side to pass
you and if there isn't quite three feet, will move over almost completely
into the left (passing) lane anyway.

jj

On Wed, 5 Oct 2005 08:14:19 -0700, [email hidden] (Tom Keats)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

When you're riding in the right lane of two, which side of that lane do
you ride on and why?

Thoughts/suggestions/life_saving_tips?

There's a sweet spot to be in, where cars will pass
you with enough clearance, and without their having
to move entirely into the next lane over. If you're
too far to the left of the right lane, chances are
you'll get some knuckleheads trying to pass you on
the right

Yeah, the more I think about it, you're actually begging someone to try and
squeeze by on the right, maybe partly on the berm.

Parenthetically, I've been finding that young females are more, and more
showing up as the most aggressive drivers on my rides. It seems they are
not the smiling passive persons you see walking around once they get behind
the wheel. It's somewhat puzzling. It seems to be 'why are you playing in
MY road on a toy when you should be at work' or something like that. heh.

jj

"Tom Keats" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

There's a sweet spot to be in, where cars will pass
you with enough clearance, and without their having
to move entirely into the next lane over.

I agree for most cases. But there is always the odd instance of someone who
crowds you no matter how ideally you are located.

Hell and High Water said:

Two lanes going one direction.

Two lanes going the other direction.

Grass median in between.

I'm riding in the right of two lanes going the same direction.

I've found that when I ride on the right side of the right lane, cars
will occasionally fly by me, essentially in the right lane. They swerve
just a bit over into the left lane, but most of the
car/tires/mirror/etc. is in the right lane.

Remember, this is two lanes going the SAME direction, so they're not
having to cross into oncoming traffic.

Now...

If I'm riding over to the LEFT of the RIGHT LANE... (Hope that makes
sense.)

Cars don't really have the option of 'straight lining it.'

They HAVE to move entirely to the left lane to get around me. Also,
there's not enough room in the RIGHT lane for them to get around me to
the right. I seem to OWN the right lane. It's mine and I can do
whatever I want with it. There's is the left lane...

On top of all this, I'm 6' 5", and I wear BRIGHT RED jerseys. There's
very little chance of them not seeing me.

My question:

When you're riding in the right lane of two, which side of that lane do
you ride on and why?

Thoughts/suggestions/life_saving_tips?

TIA,

-Bianchi Bob

Bob,

I ride on the left side of the lane in such a situation all the time.
The only "problem" is the occassional person who will honk at me and
tell me I'm supposed to be over to the right. If I ride on the right
side of the lane, I use a lot more of it than most bicyclists, who
typically ride right on the edge. By riding further out, I become a
moving impediment, and motorists generally slow down and move over. Like
you said though, it is inevitable that some jerk will pass too close and
too fast.

Act like a vehicle operator and get treated like one.

Wayne

Hell and High Water said:

Two lanes going one direction.

Two lanes going the other direction.

Grass median in between.

I'm riding in the right of two lanes going the same direction.

I've found that when I ride on the right side of the right lane, cars
will occasionally fly by me, essentially in the right lane. They swerve
just a bit over into the left lane, but most of the
car/tires/mirror/etc. is in the right lane.

Remember, this is two lanes going the SAME direction, so they're not
having to cross into oncoming traffic.

Now...

If I'm riding over to the LEFT of the RIGHT LANE... (Hope that makes
sense.)

Cars don't really have the option of 'straight lining it.'

They HAVE to move entirely to the left lane to get around me. Also,
there's not enough room in the RIGHT lane for them to get around me to
the right. I seem to OWN the right lane. It's mine and I can do
whatever I want with it. There's is the left lane...

On top of all this, I'm 6' 5", and I wear BRIGHT RED jerseys. There's
very little chance of them not seeing me.

My question:

When you're riding in the right lane of two, which side of that lane do
you ride on and why?

Thoughts/suggestions/life_saving_tips?

TIA,

-Bianchi Bob

All jurisdictions in which I've lived require cyclists to ride as close
to the curb as practical except when preparing for a left turn. The law
never seems to specify how close - it uses weasel words.

Here in Winnipeg, I generally ride about a metre out from the curb as
there is too much debris (sand, gravel, glass, litter) nearer the curb.
I find that taking a metre of the road usually forces drivers to pull
out properly to pass me.

Jeff

Hell and High Water said:

My question:

When you're riding in the right lane of two, which side of that lane do
you ride on and why?

Thoughts/suggestions/life_saving_tips?

It depends on the circumstances, as do most things.

If there is a paved shoulder that's obstruction-free, I will often ride
near its left edge or on the line.

If there is no shoulder I will generally take the lane, unless there is
really heavy traffic. How much of the lane I take depends on how fast I
am going; I generally move right if it's a climb and my speed falls
below 10mph or so.

If there is really heavy traffic all trying to go 60mph and there is no
shoulder, I will find another route. This is rarely necessary.

In all cases, I try to be mindful of what drivers will see and expect
under prevailing conditions, and attempt to avoid being a sudden
surprise to them.

RichC

Wayne Pein said:

Quoted message said:

When you're riding in the right lane of two, which side of that lane do
you ride on and why?

Thoughts/suggestions/life_saving_tips?

TIA,

-Bianchi Bob

Bob,

I ride on the left side of the lane in such a situation all the time.
The only "problem" is the occassional person who will honk at me and
tell me I'm supposed to be over to the right. If I ride on the right
side of the lane, I use a lot more of it than most bicyclists, who
typically ride right on the edge. By riding further out, I become a
moving impediment, and motorists generally slow down and move over. Like
you said though, it is inevitable that some jerk will pass too close and
too fast.

Act like a vehicle operator and get treated like one.

Wayne

That's cool, but have you ever had anyone buzz you, or pass you to the
right because of your left of center riding habit?

While it's important to take the lane, I just think it's a bad idea to give
them any chance to pass you on the right by being too far out into your
lane.

I'm somewhat anxious on a two lane each way road when I come up on a third
lane for right hand turns, knowing that some a-hole will no doubt try to go
by on my right somehow getting up to 45mph in a turn lane, just to make the
point that I'm 'in the way', even if they pass safely.

jj

On 10/5/05 9:42 AM, in article
[email hidden], "Hell and High Water"

Quoted message said:

Two lanes going one direction.

Two lanes going the other direction.

Grass median in between.

I'm riding in the right of two lanes going the same direction.

I've found that when I ride on the right side of the right lane, cars
will occasionally fly by me, essentially in the right lane. They swerve
just a bit over into the left lane, but most of the
car/tires/mirror/etc. is in the right lane.

Remember, this is two lanes going the SAME direction, so they're not
having to cross into oncoming traffic.

Now...

If I'm riding over to the LEFT of the RIGHT LANE... (Hope that makes
sense.)

Cars don't really have the option of 'straight lining it.'

They HAVE to move entirely to the left lane to get around me. Also,
there's not enough room in the RIGHT lane for them to get around me to
the right. I seem to OWN the right lane. It's mine and I can do
whatever I want with it. There's is the left lane...

On top of all this, I'm 6' 5", and I wear BRIGHT RED jerseys. There's
very little chance of them not seeing me.

My question:

When you're riding in the right lane of two, which side of that lane do
you ride on and why?

Thoughts/suggestions/life_saving_tips?

TIA,

-Bianchi Bob

A bad idea! Continue to assert what you believe is your equal right to the
road in this fashion and eventually one of the nut cases behind the wheel
out there is going to clip you. They will either pass too close on your
left or try to squeeze by on your right, specially if they are planning on
making a right turn.
Chuck

I don't think you should be to the left of the center of the lane.
Dangerous situation. I've found that even if you do take the lane like
the American League of Bicyclists teach, there are still those
aggressive drivers that will buzz you because you caused them an
inconvenience. They do this by only getting into the left lane as far
as they need to, but still have part of their car in the right lane.
This happens to me alot on my commute to work in Atlanta, because
drivers are very frustrated during peak hours.
I found the best thing to do is always give yourself 3-4 feet of lane
to the right. There's no way someone can pass you to the right. Also,
if you don't have a good mirror you can use to see traffic behind you,
you have to get one. It's just suicide not riding with one. When you
encounter those people that want to buzz you, at least you have 3-4
feet of margin that you can use at the last second.
Sincerely,
Jack Younkins
Atlanta Bike Commuter
www.atlbike.net

jj said:

Wayne Pein said:

I ride on the left side of the lane in such a situation all the time.
The only "problem" is the occassional person who will honk at me and
tell me I'm supposed to be over to the right. If I ride on the right
side of the lane, I use a lot more of it than most bicyclists, who
typically ride right on the edge. By riding further out, I become a
moving impediment, and motorists generally slow down and move over. Like
you said though, it is inevitable that some jerk will pass too close and
too fast.

Act like a vehicle operator and get treated like one.

Wayne

That's cool, but have you ever had anyone buzz you, or pass you to the
right because of your left of center riding habit?

While it's important to take the lane, I just think it's a bad idea to give
them any chance to pass you on the right by being too far out into your
lane.

I've had numerous motorists buzz me no matter where within the lane I've
ridden.

But the overwhelming majority of it occurs when I ride on the right side
of the lane. Riding left of center once or twice someone has tried to
pass me on the right in a 13 ft lane, but I prevented it. Most of my
riding left of center is in lanes that are too narrow for motorists to
attempt this.

Quoted message said:

I'm somewhat anxious on a two lane each way road when I come up on a third
lane for right hand turns, knowing that some a-hole will no doubt try to go
by on my right somehow getting up to 45mph in a turn lane, just to make the
point that I'm 'in the way', even if they pass safely.

Yes, I can see how this could be a problem. Fortunately, I don't
encounter such a situation of my typical rides.

Some motorists like to harrass or otherwise abuse bicyclists by making a
point with aggressive driving, honking, or yelling. Try not to let it
bother you (easier said than done).

Wayne

C Wright said:

A bad idea! Continue to assert what you believe is your equal right to the
road in this fashion and eventually one of the nut cases behind the wheel
out there is going to clip you. They will either pass too close on your
left or try to squeeze by on your right, specially if they are planning on
making a right turn.
Chuck

We need more bicyclists asserting their rights, not less. We already
have virtually an entire population ignorant of its rights, and passive
to the point of detriment.

Wayne

Atlbike said:

I don't think you should be to the left of the center of the lane.
Dangerous situation. I've found that even if you do take the lane like
the American League of Bicyclists teach, there are still those
aggressive drivers that will buzz you because you caused them an
inconvenience. They do this by only getting into the left lane as far
as they need to, but still have part of their car in the right lane.
This happens to me alot on my commute to work in Atlanta, because
drivers are very frustrated during peak hours.
I found the best thing to do is always give yourself 3-4 feet of lane
to the right. There's no way someone can pass you to the right. Also,
if you don't have a good mirror you can use to see traffic behind you,
you have to get one. It's just suicide not riding with one.

Funny that many bicyclists, myself included, aren't dead from not
wearing a mirror. I used to have one, but I realized looking in it for
overtaking traffic made me paranoid and distracted my attention from
where it is needed: in front.

When you

Quoted message said:

encounter those people that want to buzz you, at least you have 3-4
feet of margin that you can use at the last second.

This is the mantra of some mirror evangelists, but it is simply not
true. They spend too much time looking in the mirror for the boogeyman
from behind, and performing unneccessary evasive maneuvers.

Wayne

Wayne Pein said:

This is the mantra of some mirror evangelists, but it is simply not
true. They spend too much time looking in the mirror for the boogeyman
from behind, and performing unneccessary evasive maneuvers.

I rely on my mirror, but not for monitoring overtaking traffic on
straightaways. I find it (a Take-a-Look glasses-mounted mirror) very
useful when getting ready to merge left, and checking for incipient
right-hookers when approaching intersections.

Trying to constantly monitor overtaking traffic all the time sounds
really dangerous to me, too.

RichC

Wayne Pein said:

We need more bicyclists asserting their rights, not less. We already
have virtually an entire population ignorant of its rights, and passive
to the point of detriment.

But I think cyclists need to understand when it is safe- or not- to
assert those rights. Whether right or wrong it is not fun to be
involved in a bicycle vs. motor vehicle crash.

In 50+ years of riding, mostly in high traffic areas, I have found
numerous times in which motorists acted in violation of my rights.
Luckily, I never "stood my ground" to the point of getting hit the
motorist. Being right and dead holds little interest for me.

rdclark said:

I rely on my mirror, but not for monitoring overtaking traffic on
straightaways. I find it (a Take-a-Look glasses-mounted mirror) very
useful when getting ready to merge left, and checking for incipient
right-hookers when approaching intersections.

Trying to constantly monitor overtaking traffic all the time sounds
really dangerous to me, too.

Yes, I think using a mirror for the purpose of facilitating left turns
is reasonable.

Wayne

gds said:

Wayne Pein said:

We need more bicyclists asserting their rights, not less. We already
have virtually an entire population ignorant of its rights, and passive
to the point of detriment.

But I think cyclists need to understand when it is safe- or not- to
assert those rights. Whether right or wrong it is not fun to be
involved in a bicycle vs. motor vehicle crash.

I cannot think of a situation where it is unsafe for bicyclists to
assert their rights.

Quoted message said:

In 50+ years of riding, mostly in high traffic areas, I have found
numerous times in which motorists acted in violation of my rights.
Luckily, I never "stood my ground" to the point of getting hit the
motorist. Being right and dead holds little interest for me.

If someone is threatening to use their vehicle as a weapon, then yes, it
makes sense to evade.

Wayne

Wayne Pein said:

Yes, I think using a mirror for the purpose of facilitating left turns
is reasonable.

I have no comment on the value of a mirror-having never used one. But I
do a fair amount of route planning to avoid left runs in congested
areas. I rode for many years without considering this but after
realizing that most of the high stress and high danger moments on my
rides involved left turns I set out to minimize them. As I also prefer
loop rides to out and backs it merely means that I usually ride
clockwise.

Wayne Pein said:

I cannot think of a situation where it is unsafe for bicyclists to
assert their rights.

Quoted message said:

If someone is threatening to use their vehicle as a weapon, then yes, it
makes sense to evade.

Not to be silly but isn't your second statement at least one situation
that you say you can not think of in your first?

I understand and to some extent agree with your general issue. My
pointis simply that one must use judgement as to be assertive, and in
the right, and injured or dead is not a good outcome. The reality of
200 lbs. of bike and rider trying to occupy the same space as 3000+
motor vehicles is that the cyclist will get the worst of the encounter.
What sort of compensation some court amy award later on -to my mind-
doesn't really "correct" being dead or seriously injured.