Groupo Differences

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In article <[email hidden]>,

Jasper Janssen said:

Quoted message said:

Cycling even with expensive stuff still compares favorably with other
equipment based sports in terms of actual hourly usage per dollar. It
could be much worse, think about downhill skiing or sailing!

Downhill skiing doesn't seem to be particularly expensive in equipment
usage -- it's mostly just a few good & expensive pieces of gear that AFAIK
don't wear out all that much, although the usage fees for the venue may be
excessive.

_ You don't ski do you? Skis, boots and bindings all wear out
pretty fast if you ski a lot. In terms of per hour usage it's
much more expensive than biking. Skis last about 100 days or
bindings and boots about twice that long. So in biking terms that
would be roughly a whole new bike ( $1500) every year plus the
cost of lift tickets. Skiing costs about $2 per hour just in gear
costs, with a seasons pass you can limit the lift costs to about
a $1 an hour. Day passes run between $5-$10 per hour. Throw in
gas and lodging costs and skiing gets fairly expensive.

_ Most people don't wear out their gear because they don't ski
enough. If don't live in a ski town, skiing more than 20 or 30
days a year is pretty rare. The average skier manages about 10
days a year.

_ Booker C. Bense

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.2

iQCVAwUBQzrSOWTWTAjn5N/lAQFR1AQAoRTRREZwkBVCD9DI3gZKmvVoXUp5wazV
jYWWFZ924bw+vEYQAENo+uWpqpStQ8/4L9hYOrPK01tPAxxcTOeW/yPo2qVIaoYD
CImSRis1BqrwE9GVfxO4XVyCOAKqbnIf8BoccI+TOgmvMtZEw7sX/6+8FoGO/wai
EqL3w9+4+js=
=eAnm
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

In article <[email hidden]>,
Booker C. Bense
<[email hidden]
d.edu> wrote:

[...]

Quoted message said:

_ You don't ski do you? Skis, boots and bindings all wear out
pretty fast if you ski a lot. In terms of per hour usage it's
much more expensive than biking. Skis last about 100 days or
bindings and boots about twice that long. So in biking terms that
would be roughly a whole new bike ( $1500) every year plus the
cost of lift tickets. Skiing costs about $2 per hour just in gear
costs, with a seasons pass you can limit the lift costs to about
a $1 an hour. Day passes run between $5-$10 per hour. Throw in
gas and lodging costs and skiing gets fairly expensive.

_ Most people don't wear out their gear because they don't ski
enough. If don't live in a ski town, skiing more than 20 or 30
days a year is pretty rare. The average skier manages about 10
days a year.

Facinating. I had no idea. Where do the bindings wear out?
Where do the skis wear out? Where to the boots wear out?
Is this built in decrepitude by the manufacturers?

--
Michael Press

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In article <[email hidden]>,

Michael Press said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
Booker C. Bense
<[email hidden]
d.edu> wrote:

[...]

Quoted message said:

_ You don't ski do you? Skis, boots and bindings all wear out
pretty fast if you ski a lot. In terms of per hour usage it's
much more expensive than biking. Skis last about 100 days or
bindings and boots about twice that long. So in biking terms that
would be roughly a whole new bike ( $1500) every year plus the
cost of lift tickets. Skiing costs about $2 per hour just in gear
costs, with a seasons pass you can limit the lift costs to about
a $1 an hour. Day passes run between $5-$10 per hour. Throw in
gas and lodging costs and skiing gets fairly expensive.

_ Most people don't wear out their gear because they don't ski
enough. If don't live in a ski town, skiing more than 20 or 30
days a year is pretty rare. The average skier manages about 10
days a year.

Facinating. I had no idea. Where do the bindings wear out?

_ Mostly in the liablity insurance of your local shop, they
won't work on bindings much older than about 6-7 years old
and it's not a good idea to ski on bindings that haven't been
tested on a bench tester at least every couple years.
Also the technology does slowly improve, newer bindings are
generally safer than old ones. Mostly what happens is that
no maintance is ever done on the binding, the release springs
are left compressed and it gets to the point where it won't
reliably pass a release safety test. Also most bindings have
quite a few plastic parts these days and cold weather, UV
radiation and the occasional crash limit their lifetime.
You could ski on 20 year old bindings, but it's generally
a bad idea.

Quoted message said:

Where do the skis wear out?

_ If you ski 100 days a year you are more than likely to hit a
few rocks, this can be anything from a minor repair to a total
loss of the ski. There is also sharpening and base grinding, you
can only do this so many times. However, in general what happens
is skis lose their flex and get soft. You can ski them, but they
loose quite a bit of performance. Wood core skis last longer but
they are also heavier.

Quoted message said:

Where to the boots wear out?

_ Generally they get cut up by the metal edges of the skis to
the point where the flex is significantly changed or buckles/
shells break. The liners also pack out after a few years as well,
significantly changing the fit and performance of the boot.
Fashion also plays a part.

Quoted message said:

Is this built in decrepitude by the manufacturers?

_ Not really, it's mostly a trade off between durablity and
weight. The industry is very competitive and basically has
a flat market so the ranks get thinned very quickly.
In general skiers get new skis for performance
improvements long before they wear out their original gear.
There has been a pretty impressive increase in the performance
of skis for the average skier in the last 10 years, mostly
due to changes in the shape and size of the skis. The ski
industry is probably even more full of hype, fashion and BS
the the bike industry, but I think for the most part they
given owners of 20 year old skis a lot more reasons to upgrade
than owners of 20 year old bikes.

_ Booker C. Bense

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.2

iQCVAwUBQzsor2TWTAjn5N/lAQEyawP8CVk2ZAaHa0vdCYPVei3WkK+n6fW+a3az
4jOkOQIsuP80q2vGRUHNJbBuwTnpZvjyd+adysC1i8HX5BiHSWuwadfFfUVBLBJF
A/3TcGm/QuwtW7gleX1DIFmQLyE9BpOsBOJO5OD8wHsxH8+gKtyZUKNbdNhstkLv
TLhyQG9Mx2g=
=QrBU
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Quoted message said:

However, in general what happens
is skis lose their flex and get soft.

Hey, I heard on the internet that steel bike frames do this, too!

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

Squid-in-Training said:

Quoted message said:

However, in general what happens
is skis lose their flex and get soft.

Hey, I heard on the internet that steel bike frames do this, too!

Well, skis are typically made of plastic, I think (and not carbon orr
glass fiber composites, at that), so UV exposure and time could certainly
lose the plasticizers and go brittle (not, in any way, "soft" though.
Plastics get *hard* and brittle).

Jasper

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In article <[email hidden]>,

Jasper Janssen said:

Squid-in-Training said:

Quoted message said:

However, in general what happens
is skis lose their flex and get soft.

Hey, I heard on the internet that steel bike frames do this, too!

Well, skis are typically made of plastic, I think (and not carbon orr
glass fiber composites, at that), so UV exposure and time could certainly
lose the plasticizers and go brittle (not, in any way, "soft" though.
Plastics get *hard* and brittle).

_ Skis are basically leaf springs. All springs lose some
stiffness with use, doesn't matter what you make them out of.
I have no idea what you're trying to say, but skis are
epoxy laminates made with either a wood or foam core and
various layers of fibre glass, carbon fiber and metal.

_ Booker C. Bense

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.2

iQCVAwUBQ0L+/2TWTAjn5N/lAQEGeQP+IVpoHIeljDPmNLR/G718kYMI3+LNNhyQ
kSPsP5CLQy1TJQwpTiZUtIVnRZerKW4IuIg/Y6y5YpzZqk5ty2wOiz6zANDqotTK
WxLkuxznXnkjccDT+u/J37vrPIjhsh5ZKbnBzLQ4nitm8nRbLYJjjXl7fe4SxhnO
QsVTDi1kZmM=
=dXcI
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----