Here we go again??

vaudegiant said:

GRIDLOCK
theage.com.au1128191610133.htmlOpen ↗

HHHMMMMMMM!!!!........... wonder what the solution could be???????..........
I know............another freeway.....maybe the Western Ring Road Rreeway Ringroad.
Pat

we whine about PT and roads on the east side of town but we got it made compared to the west! PT is a joke 'over there' and the roads are uttershite
Bikepaths also seem few and far between from what I can tell.

vaudegiant said:

GRIDLOCK
http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/west-gate-stalling-city-traffic-flow/2005/10/02/1128191610133.html

HHHMMMMMMM!!!!........... wonder what the solution could be???????..........
I know............another freeway.....maybe the Western Ring Road Rreeway Ringroad.

Pat

Boringly predictable soundbites and wrong solutions to the wrong problems.

My missive to The Age, let's see if it gets published.

Sir,

In Silkstone D, 3rd Oct 2005 ``West Gate Stalling Traffic Flow'' we see the same old solutions to the same old problems: when there's too much traffic, build more roads.

It doesn't matter whether it's another bridge or a tunnel, all parties' answer to the problem is to build more roads. That such an approach can be considered visionary is a lamentable indictment on those who purport to lead us.

If there is one thing that a new road is guaranteed to do in the long term then that is an assured increase in road traffic and why not? The West Gate was a boon in its infancy, people were conditioned to accept driving in and out of the city by this road as an accepted and encouraged activity. Why else was the road built? Ten years later and the West Gate is a source of congestion. The same fate awaits any ``visionary'' road project.

All political parties are missing out on the root cause of the problem. A large portion of car travel in to the city is by commuters who spend their whole working day in an office. For the working day the car commuter wastes space in the city with a car parks and often needlessly adds to the congestion on the roads at peak times.

The solution to the congestion on the roads is to discourage car use for those that don't need it and to free up the roads for those that do. Public transport, car pooling, cycling; these all have a part to play in engineering a sustainable transport solution. More roads don't.

EuanB said:

Boringly predictable soundbites and wrong solutions to the wrong problems.

My missive to The Age, let's see if it gets published.

Sir,

In Silkstone D, 3rd Oct 2005 ``West Gate Stalling Traffic Flow'' we see the same old solutions to the same old problems: when there's too much traffic, build more roads.

It doesn't matter whether it's another bridge or a tunnel, all parties' answer to the problem is to build more roads. That such an approach can be considered visionary is a lamentable indictment on those who purport to lead us.

If there is one thing that a new road is guaranteed to do in the long term then that is an assured increase in road traffic and why not? The West Gate was a boon in its infancy, people were conditioned to accept driving in and out of the city by this road as an accepted and encouraged activity. Why else was the road built? Ten years later and the West Gate is a source of congestion. The same fate awaits any ``visionary'' road project.

All political parties are missing out on the root cause of the problem. A large portion of car travel in to the city is by commuters who spend their whole working day in an office. For the working day the car commuter wastes space in the city with a car parks and often needlessly adds to the congestion on the roads at peak times.

The solution to the congestion on the roads is to discourage car use for those that don't need it and to free up the roads for those that do. Public transport, car pooling, cycling; these all have a part to play in engineering a sustainable transport solution. More roads don't.

What they don't mention is the rampant sales of farmland as new housing in that area that is increasing the traffic, and you are allowed to sell it as 20 minutes to the city*. Look its got a lake(dam) and a cafe, hows that for 'lifestyle'.

* at 3am tuesday in school holidays

On 03/10/05 at 12:22:49 vaudegiant somehow managed to type:

Quoted message said:

GRIDLOCK
http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/west-gate-stalling-city-traffic
-flow/2005/10/02/1128191610133.html

HHHMMMMMMM!!!!........... wonder what the solution could
be???????..........
I know............another freeway.....maybe the Western Ring Road
Rreeway Ringroad.

My brother moved out to Wyndham (SP?) Vale and, until recently, tried
to do the right thing. Took the bus to the station and the train into
the city and drove only when his shift meant that there was no public
transport. ie. He drove 2 weeks out of three because of the useless bus
service, which covered a 2 hour walk, from near his place to the
station.

Now his car's died - totally and completely dead until he gets the
money together to fix it. With a wife and two kids and strapped for
cash, like everyone else out there, he's had to rethink his transport
options.

It only coveres a couple of hours walk but he's become a commuting
CYCLIST...:-) He's managed to take the bus out of the mix and scored a
bike locker at the station and is now on the hunt for a better bike
than his sons K-Mart special so he can get fitter and ditch some of the
train trip as well. He's gone from pissing and moaning about the
traffic to "laughing at the suckers stuck in the traffic paying $1.30/l
to go nowhere"

Now he fully understands just why I told him he was an idiot when he
bought that bike for his son...:-)

--
Humbug

vaudegiant said:

GRIDLOCK
theage.com.au1128191610133.htmlOpen ↗

HHHMMMMMMM!!!!........... wonder what the solution could be???????..........
I know............another freeway.....maybe the Western Ring Road Rreeway Ringroad.

Pat

No, they need BV to lobby for a Punt across the Yarra!

PiledHigher said:

What they don't mention is the rampant sales of farmland as new housing in that area that is increasing the traffic, and you are allowed to sell it as 20 minutes to the city*. Look its got a lake(dam) and a cafe, hows that for 'lifestyle'.

* at 3am tuesday in school holidays

This crapola form of 'urban planning' starts me grinding teeth. The outer S-E 'burbs are full of McMansions on bloody good farmland. And Australia is facing a huge salinity problem elsewhere. 😠

cfsmtb said:

This crapola form of 'urban planning' starts me grinding teeth. The outer S-E 'burbs are full of McMansions on bloody good farmland. And Australia is facing a huge salinity problem elsewhere. 😠

And some of this is market gardening areas that used to supply melbourne with food, now we get the food from hundreds to thousands of miles away and then food costs become much more dependant on fuel prices than they need to be.

PiledHigher said:

And some of this is market gardening areas that used to supply melbourne with food, now we get the food from hundreds to thousands of miles away and then food costs become much more dependant on fuel prices than they need to be.

Ah, it all makes complete sense now doesn't it?

We're looking forward to a bumper crop of kennebecs, roma tomatoes, corn & pumpkins in our front yard. (Give the grafted apple, lime & apricot a few more years). The part of the backyard is being fenced off for salad veggies. Who here remembers The Good Life? 😄

cfsmtb said:

Ah, it all makes complete sense now doesn't it?

We're looking forward to a bumper crop of kennebecs, roma tomatoes,
corn & pumpkins in our front yard. (Give the grafted apple, lime &
apricot a few more years). The part of the backyard is being fenced off
for salad veggies. Who here remembers The Good Life? 😄

*raises hand*

One of my friends (a vegetarian, not that it's particularly relevant) is
a farmer's daughter. Whenever she moves into a new place, the first
thing she does is set up a plot for a small vegetable garden.

She also has a tendency to look closely at the weeds, and pick out those
that are edible (eg: chickweed, a very nutritious plant that looks a bit
too similar to the rather toxic spurge for me to even think of doing the
same thing. 🙂

It's a sad fact of life, I fear. My sister now lives in Berwick, on what
used to be farmland; just across the road from her is a farmer that
refuses to up and sell until Jennings sells off the remaining blocks of
land. In the meantime, she's waking up to the dulcet tone of lowing
cows. It'll be a shame when that stops.

--
My Usenet From: address now expires after two weeks. If you email me, and
the mail bounces, try changing the bit before the "@ to usenet".

On 2005-10-03, Stuart Lamble (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

Quoted message said:

cfsmtb said:

Ah, it all makes complete sense now doesn't it?

We're looking forward to a bumper crop of kennebecs, roma tomatoes,
corn & pumpkins in our front yard. (Give the grafted apple, lime &
apricot a few more years). The part of the backyard is being fenced off
for salad veggies. Who here remembers The Good Life? 😄

*raises hand*

One of my friends (a vegetarian, not that it's particularly relevant) is

Kill them!

Oh. Not relevant, I see 🙂

Quoted message said:

a farmer's daughter. Whenever she moves into a new place, the first
thing she does is set up a plot for a small vegetable garden.

Could I hire them? I am the sole person who is able to kill rosemary.
That reminds me, I think I have some watering to do.

Quoted message said:

It's a sad fact of life, I fear. My sister now lives in Berwick, on what
used to be farmland; just across the road from her is a farmer that
refuses to up and sell until Jennings sells off the remaining blocks of
land. In the meantime, she's waking up to the dulcet tone of lowing
cows. It'll be a shame when that stops.

If you come riding on a BR (shameless ontopic subject), you'll get to
ride around Col d'Moo.

I keep forgetting the name given to the person with the pitchfork.

--
TimC
READING MICROSCOPIC DISCLAIMERS ON COUPON MAY CAUSE PAPER CUTS ON EYEBALLS.
-- Disclaimer on Kibo's Pot Pie of Pain

cfsmtb said:

We're looking forward to a bumper crop of kennebecs, roma tomatoes,
corn & pumpkins in our front yard. (Give the grafted apple, lime &
apricot a few more years). The part of the backyard is being fenced off
for salad veggies. Who here remembers The Good Life? 😄

I loved The Good Life. We're on a small lot within 4.5km of the CBD,
but still have our herb garden and tomatoes, zucchini, pumpkin,
watermelon, beans, yellow squash. And we had ducks until a fox ate
them. For some reason foxes still live within 4.5km of the CBD, and
this was a cunning fellow who's managed to dispatch our ducks despite
us sleeping nearby and our dog unawares...this holidays we're gonna
build a fox-proof duck enclosure.

My plan to procure a goat has been unfortunately thwarted.

Cheers
David M

Everyone I know who lives in Hoppers, Santury Lakes & Werribee, works in the CBD.
The billboards around the housing developments there say: “15mins from the city”.

The Westgate is built for one form of transport, and I bet the orginal designers didn’t realise that the Docklands development would put a brake on a majority of heavy freight travelling along the Footscray rd corridor.
The feeder into Westgate freeway by the Western Ring Road also adds traffic which would otherwise travel Geelong rd or Ballarat rds.

All kind of adds up really.
Traffic from as far north as St Albans/Kelior across to Geelong might be getting into the city over the Westgate.

A mate lives in Sunshine & there’s not much there for cyclists commuting in, even though there are possible corridors to exploit , like the rail lines etc. Considering Gardiners Creek path has a part which is physically suspended under a freeway, I think there is a lot thw western suburbs can expect. Besides it’s flat out there, so cycling is a real option, even out to Deer Park.

quote='David M'cfsmtb said:

We're looking forward to a bumper crop of kennebecs, roma tomatoes,
corn & pumpkins in our front yard. (Give the grafted apple, lime &
apricot a few more years). The part of the backyard is being fenced off
for salad veggies. Who here remembers The Good Life? 😄

I loved The Good Life. We're on a small lot within 4.5km of the CBD,
but still have our herb garden and tomatoes, zucchini, pumpkin,
watermelon, beans, yellow squash. And we had ducks until a fox ate
them. For some reason foxes still live within 4.5km of the CBD, and
this was a cunning fellow who's managed to dispatch our ducks despite
us sleeping nearby and our dog unawares...this holidays we're gonna
build a fox-proof duck enclosure.

My plan to procure a goat has been unfortunately thwarted.

Cheers
David M[/QUOTE]
And we're just the other side of the CBD to you! We are 'redoing' the yard at the moment. Bought a lemon tree, and a chili plant on Sunday. More to come in the next couple of weekends.

SteveA

SteveA said:

And we're just the other side of the CBD to you! We are 'redoing' the yard at the moment. Bought a lemon tree, and a chili plant on Sunday. More to come in the next couple of weekends.

SteveA

Who's up for alt.aus.bicycle.cats.dogs.gardening?

cfsmtb said:

Who's up for alt.aus.bicycle.cats.dogs.gardening?

Sounds like an excellent idea. Anyone got any hints on veggies to grow
along the side of my house which is an area that gets a fair bit of
sunshine for the morning but none for the afternoon? It's an area
that's dead easy to keep dog and ducks out of, and it's sad to waste
it...

Cheers
David M

cfsmtb said:

Who's up for alt.aus.bicycle.cats.dogs.gardening?

I gotta get that cat operated pedal garden cultivator thingy going 😄

As long as we don't start discussing self sufficiency 'cause then I'd have to go out and get a bomb shelter and lots of guns (I think I've been looking at too many American sites on the net)

SteveA

SteveA said:

I gotta get that cat operated pedal garden cultivator thingy going 😄

As long as we don't start discussing self sufficiency 'cause then I'd have to go out and get a bomb shelter and lots of guns (I think I've been looking at too many American sites on the net)

SteveA

Yeah, and the obligatory "Do you carry a g*n" thread.

Ditto for the survivalists, end-of-times fundies and peak oil enthusiasists....

quote='David M'cfsmtb said:

Who's up for alt.aus.bicycle.cats.dogs.gardening?

Sounds like an excellent idea. Anyone got any hints on veggies to grow
along the side of my house which is an area that gets a fair bit of
sunshine for the morning but none for the afternoon? It's an area
that's dead easy to keep dog and ducks out of, and it's sad to waste
it...

Cheers
David M[/QUOTE]

Hmm, winter plantings, how about mushrooms? In summer, the area sounds good for leafy greens, ie salady stuff etc that doesn't like being scorched by the harsh arvo sun, ie: use that leftover mushroom mulch for excellent stuff like spinach, asian greens, broccoli, lettuce, coriander, parsley blahblahblah...

Any better advice while we're at it? 😄

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> "Humbug" == Humbug <[email hidden]> writes:

Humbug> On 03/10/05 at 12:22:49 vaudegiant somehow managed to type:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

GRIDLOCK
http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/west-gate-stalling-city-traffic
-flow/2005/10/02/1128191610133.html

HHHMMMMMMM!!!!........... wonder what the solution could
be???????.......... I know............another freeway.....maybe
the Western Ring Road Rreeway Ringroad.

Humbug> My brother moved out to Wyndham (SP?) Vale and, until
Humbug> recently, tried to do the right thing. Took the bus to the
Humbug> station and the train into the city and drove only when his
Humbug> shift meant that there was no public transport. ie. He drove
Humbug> 2 weeks out of three because of the useless bus service,
Humbug> which covered a 2 hour walk, from near his place to the
Humbug> station.

Humbug> Now his car's died - totally and completely dead until he
Humbug> gets the money together to fix it. With a wife and two kids
Humbug> and strapped for cash, like everyone else out there, he's
Humbug> had to rethink his transport options.

Humbug> It only coveres a couple of hours walk but he's become a
Humbug> commuting CYCLIST...:-) He's managed to take the bus out of
Humbug> the mix and scored a bike locker at the station and is now
Humbug> on the hunt for a better bike than his sons K-Mart special
Humbug> so he can get fitter and ditch some of the train trip as
Humbug> well. He's gone from pissing and moaning about the traffic
Humbug> to "laughing at the suckers stuck in the traffic paying
Humbug> $1.30/l to go nowhere"

Humbug> Now he fully understands just why I told him he was an idiot
Humbug> when he bought that bike for his son...:-)

Beautiful, beautiful. Come on, say it again :-) Music to my ears.

Seriously I love hearing about people who finally `get it.'
--
Cheers | ~~ __@
Euan | ~~ _-\<,
Melbourne, Australia | ~ (*)/ (*)