How Much Glue?

Rod said:

I'm in the process of mounting my first set of tubulars. For the most
part everything I've read indicates that I should be able to do a
wheelset with a single tube of glue.

Nah, you should hose that sucker down with glue, the more the better.
Pour it on-- better yet, dip the whole wheel and tire in it. Try
roofing asphalt if you can't get your hands on enough rim cement.

Then, while the glue is good and tacky, wrap up that 1970s-era [censored]
in a moth-eaten 1970s-era hippie poncho, and relinquish them both to
the care of your local sanitation department. You'll be glad you did.

Chalo Colina

:
: Nah, you should hose that sucker down with glue, the more the better.
: Pour it on-- better yet, dip the whole wheel and tire in it. Try
: roofing asphalt if you can't get your hands on enough rim cement.
:
: Then, while the glue is good and tacky, wrap up that 1970s-era [censored]
: in a moth-eaten 1970s-era hippie poncho, and relinquish them both to
: the care of your local sanitation department. You'll be glad you did.
:
:
: Chalo Colina

I thought I was going to learn about mounting a tubular and I learned
something else entirely.
Next time, tell us how you really feel about it. Don't be timid. LOL

Pat in TX
:

28 Sep 2005 21:19:31 -0400 Rod said:

I'm in the process of mounting my first set of tubulars. For the most
part everything I've read indicates that I should be able to do a
wheelset with a single tube of glue.

In my opinion, yes, way too much.

It's been a LONG time since I've done this, but I would expect a tube
to do at least 4 wheels.

-
-----------------------------------------------
Jim Adney [email hidden]
Madison, WI 53711 USA
-----------------------------------------------

Sounds too me like you used too much. I usually sqeeze a steady bead
around the whole wheel and spread it out to about 1-2mm with my finger
wrapped in a shred of plastic bag. After letting it sit for a few
minutes, whip that tire on, and pump it up enough to settle it into the
glue, but not enough to have it twist itself off. After some practice,
you should be able to do it without even making a mess! I never
bothered putting glue on the tire too. I've never rolled a tire either.
One tube of glue usually was good for 2 wheels for me, but I have long
ago switched to auto-trim adhesive. It is less heat sensitive. In other
words it doesn't soften up and come un-glued when cowards like me
actually use the brakes descending mountains.

Joseph

Chalo said:

...wrap up that 1970s-era [censored]

Hey Chalo, I think you missed it by about a century.

For me, a tube of Clement was the standard for one wheel (tire & rim).
Am now using a can of Conti so am adjusting my portions. Just going for
a thin layer from edge to edge. Seems to stick pretty well.

Greg Hall

Rod said:

I'm in the process of mounting my first set of tubulars. For the most
part everything I've read indicates that I should be able to do a
wheelset with a single tube of glue.

So far I've used a full tube on one wheel. I've applied a base coat
using a acid brush to a new tire and rim that was stripped of all the
old glue, a second coat to both and the mounting coat.

Did I use too much glue?

--
Thx,
-rod
rod[at]rodquiros[dot]com

It takes a fair amount of glue to build up a good base layer on the
rim. Probably you went a little overboard, but not by much. Just make
sure that you've got a good bond along the edges of the rim, all the
way around, no dry spots.

When you have a base coat on the rim already, one tube is good for
many, many tires. In the future, when you put another tire on there,
you just need to put a very light coat on the tire.

Good guide to tub gluing:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/frontwheel.html

Quoted message said:

Sounds too me like you used too much. I usually sqeeze a steady bead
around the whole wheel and spread it out to about 1-2mm with my finger
wrapped in a shred of plastic bag. After letting it sit for a few
minutes, whip that tire on, and pump it up enough to settle it into the
glue, but not enough to have it twist itself off. After some practice,
you should be able to do it without even making a mess! I never
bothered putting glue on the tire too. I've never rolled a tire either.
One tube of glue usually was good for 2 wheels for me, but I have long
ago switched to auto-trim adhesive. It is less heat sensitive. In other
words it doesn't soften up and come un-glued when cowards like me
actually use the brakes descending mountains.

There's some research out there which you should be able to turn up by
searching the archives for this ng that indicates that there are better
choices than auto trim adhesive. The least heat sensitive glue is
Vittoria Mastik One, defined as having the strongest bond on a hot rim;
it also has the strongest absolute bond and can be ridden as soon as
about an hour after mounting- its bond strength after an hour or so is
better than most after 24 hours.

I get four wheels out of a tube, more or less. For a new wheel and tire
one coat each dried, and then a semi-wet coat on the wheel. For a used
wheel and tire, one semi-wet coat on the wheel. I may or may not clean
old glue depending on how thick it is. The only problem with applying
Vittoria Mastik like this is that the tire can be hard to get off on
the road. It helps to have some kind of tool that you can wedge under
the tire to pry it up to get a start on pulling the tire off.

Dave said:

Rod said:

I'm in the process of mounting my first set of tubulars. For the most
part everything I've read indicates that I should be able to do a
wheelset with a single tube of glue.

So far I've used a full tube on one wheel. I've applied a base coat
using a acid brush to a new tire and rim that was stripped of all the
old glue, a second coat to both and the mounting coat.

Did I use too much glue?

--
Thx,
-rod
rod[at]rodquiros[dot]com

It takes a fair amount of glue to build up a good base layer on the
rim. Probably you went a little overboard, but not by much. Just make
sure that you've got a good bond along the edges of the rim, all the
way around, no dry spots.

When you have a base coat on the rim already, one tube is good for
many, many tires. In the future, when you put another tire on there,
you just need to put a very light coat on the tire.

Good guide to tub gluing:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/frontwheel.html

I agree with Dave. For preparing a new set of rims I put on two coats
and let both coats dry. And for new tires a coat on the base tape and
let it dry too. Then a light coat on both rim and tire when mounting.
One tube of glue to get a new rim and new tire mounted seems reasonable
to me. When replacing the tire in the future with a new tire, you
should get several tires from a tube. You still have to put a base
layer on the new tire and let it dry.

Dave said:

It takes a fair amount of glue to build up a good base layer on the
rim. Probably you went a little overboard, but not by much. Just make
sure that you've got a good bond along the edges of the rim, all the
way around, no dry spots.

You don't need that much. An extremely strong bond can be created with
the right kind of glue with one dry coat on rim and tire and one
semi-wet on rim only.

I hesitate to bring this up because it usually leads to an protracted
discussion here, but if in fact glue squirm does contribute to
increased rolling resistance, it seems logical to me that thicker glue
equals more squirm.

I think that the wet layer is an important factor in getting a strong
bond, probably because it compensates for irregularities in the
thickness of the glue layer and the rim and tire surfaces. Also
important, there's no reason not to use the best glues available:
Vittoria Mastik or Continental, in that order. And, as you said, make
sure that the glue is functional all the way to the edge of the rim. It
doesn't do any good to have glue on the edge if it isn't bonding.

As I said elsewhere, you can tell if the bond is right because the tire
should be very hard to pull off the rim even if deflated.

Rod said:

I'm in the process of mounting my first set of tubulars. For the most
part everything I've read indicates that I should be able to do a
wheelset with a single tube of glue.

So far I've used a full tube on one wheel. I've applied a base coat
using a acid brush to a new tire and rim that was stripped of all the
old glue, a second coat to both and the mounting coat.

Did I use too much glue?

My answer is yes! Last time I mounted a pair of new tubulars (on
glue-free rims) I started with a new tube of Conti Rim Cement. I just
checked and there's only a bit left in the tube, so I'm guessing you
overdid it by about 100%.

jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net http://home.earthlink.net/~jeverett3

Using Tufo Extreme pretty much eliminates the mess and the guess work.
I used on a set of S33 tubies (which turned out to be a bad choice of
tire...) and also on a set of Vittoria EVO Pave tires. The Tufo tape
appears to liquify when the tire is pumped up, and the bond is
completed by riding on the tire(s). There were no gaps, and the tape
spread perfectly from edge to edge. Much lower rolling resistance on
the Vittorias, too!!

Quoted message said:

Using Tufo Extreme pretty much eliminates the mess and the guess work.
I used on a set of S33 tubies (which turned out to be a bad choice of
tire...) and also on a set of Vittoria EVO Pave tires. The Tufo tape
appears to liquify when the tire is pumped up, and the bond is
completed by riding on the tire(s). There were no gaps, and the tape
spread perfectly from edge to edge. Much lower rolling resistance on
the Vittorias, too!!

Thank you all very much for your help.... much appreciated.

Chalo - step away from the keyboard and go back to smoking the peace
pipe! ;-p

--
Thx,
-rod
rod[at]rodquiros[dot]com

Quoted message said:

Dave said:

It takes a fair amount of glue to build up a good base layer on the
rim. Probably you went a little overboard, but not by much. Just make
sure that you've got a good bond along the edges of the rim, all the
way around, no dry spots.

You don't need that much. An extremely strong bond can be created with
the right kind of glue with one dry coat on rim and tire and one
semi-wet on rim only.

I agree. Too much glue does not make a stronger bond. It can actually make
the bond weaker.
One tube of glue should be enough for 4-6 tires...

--
Jørn Dahl-Stamnes
http://www.dahl-stamnes.net/dahls/

Rod said:

Thank you all very much for your help.... much appreciated.

Chalo - step away from the keyboard and go back to smoking the peace
pipe! ;-p

Glad to be of service.

For a price, I can furnish you some glue-on, uh, "clipless" pedals.
Heck, for you, I'll even make a deal on some of my exclusive
peel-n-stick cranks!

What do you say? Eschew mechanical fastening, man; glue is where it's
at!

Chalo Colina

Chalo said:

Glad to be of service.

For a price, I can furnish you some glue-on, uh, "clipless" pedals.
Heck, for you, I'll even make a deal on some of my exclusive
peel-n-stick cranks!

What do you say? Eschew mechanical fastening, man; glue is where it's
at!

Aluminum or carbon tubes glued into lugs are ? A frame, or an accident
waiting to happen?

Jasper

Chalo said:

For a price, I can furnish you some glue-on, uh, "clipless" pedals.
Heck, for you, I'll even make a deal on some of my exclusive
peel-n-stick cranks!

What do you say? Eschew mechanical fastening, man; glue is where it's
at!

Chalo Colina

Speaking of dated designs, I could be mistaken but I think the one you
prefer is much older than tubulars.

I can't believe all those idiots in professional races use tubulars.
What could they be thinking ?

Bob

"Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Chalo said:

For a price, I can furnish you some glue-on, uh, "clipless" pedals.
Heck, for you, I'll even make a deal on some of my exclusive
peel-n-stick cranks!

What do you say? Eschew mechanical fastening, man; glue is where it's
at!

Chalo Colina

Speaking of dated designs, I could be mistaken but I think the one you
prefer is much older than tubulars.

I can't believe all those idiots in professional races use tubulars.
What could they be thinking ?

They don't do any of their own mechanic work. What if you had your own
little poo-flinging monkey to fix tubie flats whenever you got one?

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

Squid-in-Training said:

"Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Chalo said:

For a price, I can furnish you some glue-on, uh, "clipless" pedals.
Heck, for you, I'll even make a deal on some of my exclusive
peel-n-stick cranks!

What do you say? Eschew mechanical fastening, man; glue is where it's
at!

Chalo Colina

Speaking of dated designs, I could be mistaken but I think the one you
prefer is much older than tubulars.

I can't believe all those idiots in professional races use tubulars.
What could they be thinking ?

They don't do any of their own mechanic work. What if you had your own
little poo-flinging monkey to fix tubie flats whenever you got one?

My post was actually tongue in cheek :-)

I save tubie repairs for cold, snowy Winter nights when there's little
else to do.

Quoted message said:

The only problem with applying
Vittoria Mastik like this is that the tire can be hard to get off on
the road.

That's exactly what you want. No surprises, and the tire staying on
whether blown, sliced, slammed through a potholed corner, or pounded on
in a flaming multi-bicycle pileup. Yes, occasionally you might damage a
flat's base tape, or find that the easiest way to get a tire off is to
temporarily leave the base tape on the rim <g>. The moment those wheels
hit the pavement, they're in harm's way anyhow, so glue them on to
stay.

Quoted message said:

It helps to have some kind of tool that you can wedge under
the tire to pry it up to get a start on pulling the tire off.

The flate blade screwdriver on a multi-tool works great.

SSTW, you might perform a service here by detailing your application
method whereby you can get that kind of adhesion with one tube of
cement sufficing for four wheels. --D-y