this was an interesting article...

According to this, it works because of two sides of the same coin, I
guess:
1- You are full
2- You don't have carbs stimulating hunger, so you are satiated.

If people were really interested, there would be a hell of a debate as
to why it works. Is it the fillingness of fat, is there a ketogenic
advantage, is there something special about carbs, is it just calorie
in, calorie out? Personally, with my expertise being business strategy
and organizational design/management, I think it's all of the above, in
measures.

Personally, I know it works, short term, and don't see why long term
would be very different. I also enjoy preparing and eating steaks ;-)

Hollywood

Quoted message said:

http://www.temple.edu/news_media/AtkinsDiabetes.html

Max Hollywood Harris <[email hidden]> wrote:
:> According to this, it works because of two sides of the same coin, I
:> guess:
:> 1- You are full
:> 2- You don't have carbs stimulating hunger, so you are satiated.
:>
:> If people were really interested, there would be a hell of a debate
:> as to why it works. Is it the fillingness of fat, is there a
:> ketogenic advantage, is there something special about carbs, is it
:> just calorie in, calorie out?

IMO, it's more due to the lack of carbs stimulating hunger, than anything
else. Fat and protein, for me, are about the same, though eating a pile of
chicken breast tends to end appetite way quicker than eating a mound of
nuts.

It's certainly not mere calories in that's filling, else people won't over
eat.

Personally, with my expertise being
:> business strategy and organizational design/management, I think it's
:> all of the above, in measures.

Well, using a business model for how the body works seems like a bad idea...

:>
:> Personally, I know it works, short term, and don't see why long term
:> would be very different. I also enjoy preparing and eating steaks ;-)
:>

Same here, except in the long term you're more likely to rationalize....carb
creep can become an issue.

Quoted message said:

http://www.temple.edu/news_media/AtkinsDiabetes.html

The fact that the sponsors of this study included the American Diabetes
Association and the National Institutes of Health makes it seem even
more inportant.

------------------ Main Conclusions - Eating less carbs gives rise to
eating less......

Quoted message said:

(Philadelphia) - A new study by Temple University School of Medicine researchers has shown why the pounds melt so quickly on low-carbohydrate diets, and it's not related to water, metabolism or boredom. The research was conducted in a group of obese patients with type 2 diabetes who followed the Atkins diet.

According to lead researcher, Guenther Boden, M.D., "When carbohydrates were restricted, study subjects spontaneously reduced their caloric intake to a level appropriate for their height, did not compensate by eating more protein or fat, and lost weight. We concluded that excessive overeating had been fueled by carbohydrates."

--
1) Eat Till SATISFIED, Not STUFFED... Atkins repeated 9 times in the book
2) Exercise: It's Non-Negotiable..... Chapter 22 title, Atkins book
3) Don't Diet Without Supplimental Nutrients... Chapter 23 title, Atkins
book
4) A sensible eating plan, and follow it. (Atkins, Self Made or Other)

Wonder when the ADA will put these results on the main page of their
website where their carb producing food industry corporate sponsors can
see it.

TC

jbuch said:

Quoted message said:

http://www.temple.edu/news_media/AtkinsDiabetes.html

The fact that the sponsors of this study included the American Diabetes
Association and the National Institutes of Health makes it seem even
more inportant.

------------------ Main Conclusions - Eating less carbs gives rise to
eating less......

Quoted message said:

(Philadelphia) - A new study by Temple University School of Medicine researchers has shown why the pounds melt so quickly on low-carbohydrate diets, and it's not related to water, metabolism or boredom. The research was conducted in a group of obese patients with type 2 diabetes who followed the Atkins diet.

According to lead researcher, Guenther Boden, M.D., "When carbohydrates were restricted, study subjects spontaneously reduced their caloric intake to a level appropriate for their height, did not compensate by eating more protein or fat, and lost weight. We concluded that excessive overeating had been fueled by carbohydrates."

--
1) Eat Till SATISFIED, Not STUFFED... Atkins repeated 9 times in the book
2) Exercise: It's Non-Negotiable..... Chapter 22 title, Atkins book
3) Don't Diet Without Supplimental Nutrients... Chapter 23 title, Atkins
book
4) A sensible eating plan, and follow it. (Atkins, Self Made or Other)

Roger Zoul said:

Max Hollywood Harris <[email hidden]> wrote:
:> According to this, it works because of two sides of the same coin, I
:> guess:
:> 1- You are full
:> 2- You don't have carbs stimulating hunger, so you are satiated.
:>
:> If people were really interested, there would be a hell of a debate
:> as to why it works. Is it the fillingness of fat, is there a
:> ketogenic advantage, is there something special about carbs, is it
:> just calorie in, calorie out?

IMO, it's more due to the lack of carbs stimulating hunger, than anything
else. Fat and protein, for me, are about the same, though eating a pile of
chicken breast tends to end appetite way quicker than eating a mound of
nuts.

It's certainly not mere calories in that's filling, else people won't over
eat.

Absolutely. Anyone who experienced a binge, overeating, munchies, or
that nagging I don't know what I want to eat but have to eat
somethign, knows it isn't just about filling a stomach or ingesting
energy. Otherwise we'd simply eat more when we exercise more and eat
less when we couh-potato and maintain a stable weight.

Quoted message said:

:> Personally, I know it works, short term, and don't see why long term
:> would be very different. I also enjoy preparing and eating steaks ;-)

Long term is long term and it is very different. You can keep up any
behavior short term. Long term is much harder because life will
intrude back in and focus can be lost. I started about 20 months ago
and I don't have the focus I did in winter 2004. I've gained about 20
pounds back from my low of 270 in summer 2004. More than I wanted to
bounce back, but many of my good habits eroded. But i have kept 60 of
the 80 lbs I lost off. And it did take almost a year for those 20 lbs
to come back.

Quoted message said:

Same here, except in the long term you're more likely to rationalize....carb
creep can become an issue.

DiGiTAL_ViNYL (no email)
350/289/225 month-start: 288 monthly-goal: 0 since: 12/01/2004
Atkins since Jan 12, 2004
In Maintenance, not counting (CCLL=50-60)

DigitalVinyl said:

Quoted message said:

Max Hollywood Harris <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

:> Personally, I know it works, short term, and don't see why long term
:> would be very different. I also enjoy preparing and eating steaks ;-)

Long term is long term and it is very different. You can keep up any
behavior short term. Long term is much harder because life will
intrude back in and focus can be lost. I started about 20 months ago
and I don't have the focus I did in winter 2004. I've gained about 20
pounds back from my low of 270 in summer 2004. More than I wanted to
bounce back, but many of my good habits eroded. But i have kept 60 of
the 80 lbs I lost off. And it did take almost a year for those 20 lbs
to come back.

That's not what we were talking about. Doing it long term is different
from the health benefits/health problems that might emerge from doing
it long term. The difficulty in doing it assiduously for another day is
apparent. The question is more like, "Are there issues from doing it
constantly, long term?" I don't think there are. IIRC, Zoul said he
didn't see a reason why it would differ. We are waiting, of course, for
the research to catch up, but the problem with long term studies is
that they take a long time. I suspect we will be vindicated, but that
will make it no easier to keep up in the LT.

On the issue of slacking: People slack alone. If you want to reach your
goal, or even get rid of those twenty that have crept, you will find
the way to do it (assuming you are serious about it). Otherwise, it
will likely all come back, with interest. Good luck on your journey and
I hope you meet your expectations.

-Hollywood

Max Hollywood Harris said:

DigitalVinyl said:

Quoted message said:

Max Hollywood Harris <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

:> Personally, I know it works, short term, and don't see why long term
:> would be very different. I also enjoy preparing and eating steaks ;-)

Long term is long term and it is very different. You can keep up any
behavior short term. Long term is much harder because life will
intrude back in and focus can be lost. I started about 20 months ago
and I don't have the focus I did in winter 2004. I've gained about 20
pounds back from my low of 270 in summer 2004. More than I wanted to
bounce back, but many of my good habits eroded. But i have kept 60 of
the 80 lbs I lost off. And it did take almost a year for those 20 lbs
to come back.

That's not what we were talking about. Doing it long term is different
from the health benefits/health problems that might emerge from doing
it long term. The difficulty in doing it assiduously for another day is
apparent. The question is more like, "Are there issues from doing it
constantly, long term?" I don't think there are. IIRC, Zoul said he
didn't see a reason why it would differ. We are waiting, of course, for
the research to catch up, but the problem with long term studies is
that they take a long time. I suspect we will be vindicated, but that
will make it no easier to keep up in the LT.

Well focusing on the physiological side I seem to recall previous
posters agreeing that the craving-reduction was not as significant
long term. Basically you couldn't count on that long term. Eventually
some cravings return even with managed carbs. But I think it would be
very difficult (long term) to separate the cravings caused by the body
from those caused by the mind.

The longest study I recall released was around 1 year long, however
not with subjects sequestered away like this study, which would be
impossible. I don't recall any ill effects. That study did confirm
lower cholesterol and higher retention rates(staying on diet) than
traditional low fat method.

There is a theory that says detecting statistical effects on a large
population typically takes a minimum of 20 years before it reaches
enough of the population to show up as significant. If there are any
long term health consequences, we probably won't see decent work on it
for another 10-20 years.

Quoted message said:

On the issue of slacking: People slack alone. If you want to reach your
goal, or even get rid of those twenty that have crept, you will find
the way to do it (assuming you are serious about it). Otherwise, it
will likely all come back, with interest. Good luck on your journey and
I hope you meet your expectations.

-Hollywood

DiGiTAL_ViNYL (no email)
350/289/225 month-start: 288 monthly-goal: 0 since: 12/01/2004
Atkins since Jan 12, 2004
In Maintenance, not counting (CCLL=50-60)