Death by V-Brake?

Really hard to imagine riding fast enough on a sidewalk for one to
"eject" from the bicycle. Sad when anyone gets killed but I think there
is more to the story than what is written above.

gds said:

Really hard to imagine riding fast enough on a sidewalk for one to
"eject" from the bicycle. Sad when anyone gets killed but I think there
is more to the story than what is written above.

Yeah I would have to agree with you on that one, sounds to me like
there was some other factor involved. First to riding that fast on a
sidewalk, second not slowing down before getting to the intersection,
third not knowing how fast to apply the brakes to avoid being 'ejected'
from the bike. Sounds fishy to me.

Ken

26 Sep 2005 14:07:00 -0700,
<[email hidden]>,

Ken M said:

gds said:

Really hard to imagine riding fast enough on a sidewalk for one to
"eject" from the bicycle. Sad when anyone gets killed but I think there
is more to the story than what is written above.

Yeah I would have to agree with you on that one, sounds to me like
there was some other factor involved. First to riding that fast on a
sidewalk, second not slowing down before getting to the intersection,
third not knowing how fast to apply the brakes to avoid being 'ejected'
from the bike. Sounds fishy to me.

A broken brake cable can permit the x-over wire used on cantilever
brakes to abruptly stop a knobby tire.

Sometimes there's a little hook thing sticking out of the fork crown
to prevent that. Fenders or a light bracket would also do.

But yep, it does sound fishy.

--
zk

Any quality brake, correctly adjusted, can, if too forcefully applied,
send the hapless rider seast over handlebars. Give him a Darwin.

- -

"May you have the winds at your back,
And a really low gear for the hills!"

Chris Zacho ~ "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

Chris'Z Corner
http://www.geocities.com/czcorner

Chris Zacho observed:

Quoted message said:

Any quality brake, correctly adjusted, can, if too forcefully applied,
send the hapless rider seast over handlebars. Give him a Darwin.

In this case, I would be inclined to think he would have ended up in
traffic anyway. Any brake applied so as to not throw him over the
handlebars into traffic would not have stopped him before entering
traffic.

Austin

"AustinMN" wrote: (clip) Any brake applied so as to not throw him over the
handlebars into traffic would not have stopped him before entering traffic.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
He was riding on the sidewalk, fast enough to go over the handlebars when he
stopped for a red light. The only scenario I can come up with is he was
planning on running the light, and was cut off by a car. A red light is
always preceded by an amber light, so I can't think of any way that the
light could have surprised him, and MADE him slam on the brakes.

He was riding on the sidewalk, fast enough to go over the handlebars when
he

Quoted message said:

stopped for a red light. The only scenario I can come up with is he was
planning on running the light, and was cut off by a car. A red light is
always preceded by an amber light, so I can't think of any way that the
light could have surprised him, and MADE him slam on the brakes.

There's nothing in the quoted story that says he even used his brakes. Just
that he "stopped short" of the intersection. He might have encountered
something that stopped his front wheel. Or perhaps he rode off the curb and
twisted up his front wheel. Not enough information in the story to draw a
conclusion (or even an educated guess).

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

"Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote: There's nothing in the quoted story that says he
even used his brakes. Just that he "stopped short" (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The original story says, "McNally was riding his bicycle on the sidewalk and
apparently stopped
short at a red light at the intersection..."

Literally, I guess you are correct. He could have stopped short from some
other cause, throwing him over the handlebars into the path of a car that
was crossing the intersection with a GREEN light. Had that other cause not
existed, he would have ridden into the path of that same car. and surely met
the same fate. What plausible sequence can you suggest? He was planning on
riding into the path of that car, but tacoed his wheel and FLEW into the
path of the car instead?

Quoted message said:

"Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote: There's nothing in the quoted story that says he
even used his brakes. Just that he "stopped short" (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The original story says, "McNally was riding his bicycle on the sidewalk
and apparently stopped
short at a red light at the intersection..."

Literally, I guess you are correct. He could have stopped short from some
other cause, throwing him over the handlebars into the path of a car that
was crossing the intersection with a GREEN light. Had that other cause
not existed, he would have ridden into the path of that same car. and
surely met the same fate. What plausible sequence can you suggest? He
was planning on riding into the path of that car, but tacoed his wheel and
FLEW into the path of the car instead?

Let's look at *everything* we presently know about the incident-

"McNally was riding his bicycle on the sidewalk and apparently stopped
short at a red light at the intersection of Tyson and Rowland Avenues.
He ejected from the bike into the intersection and was run over by an
oncoming car, Sgt. Albert Gramlich said. The accident is under
investigation."

#1: He was riding on the sidewalk
#2: He "apparently" did something. They're reconstructing this from where he
ended up, nothing more.
#3: The bike remained on the sidewalk, while the rider ended up in the
street.

Something stopped the bike dead in its tracks. Rarely is that from
application of too much braking power. Rarely, but sometimes it does happen,
but when it does, it's usually not just the braking power but a loss of
control as the cyclist panics or runs out of maneuvering room to avoid
something. The cyclist was on the *sidewalk*, at an intersection, where any
one of a number of things might exist to restrict options and cause panic.
Stop signs, street signs, mail boxes, even an uncut curb where someone
expected a ramp.

But that's all conjecture. The only fact in evidence is that we don't have
enough facts to have a clue as to what really happened, other than to know
that the bike was being operated in an unsafe manner (ridden on the
sidewalk, apparently with enough speed that the rider continued into the
street when the bike stopped).

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Chris Zacho 'The Wheelman said:

Any quality brake, correctly adjusted, can, if too forcefully applied,
send the hapless rider seast over handlebars. Give him a Darwin.

This is true, but it only takes a couple of stop to get used to the
brakes. But I guess he could have done a 'panic stop' which could have
led him to do an endo.

Quoted message said:

- -

"May you have the winds at your back,
And a really low gear for the hills!"

Chris Zacho ~ "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

Chris'Z Corner
http://www.geocities.com/czcorner

Ken M said:

gds said:

Really hard to imagine riding fast enough on a sidewalk for one to
"eject" from the bicycle. Sad when anyone gets killed but I think there
is more to the story than what is written above.

Yeah I would have to agree with you on that one, sounds to me like
there was some other factor involved. First to riding that fast on a
sidewalk, second not slowing down before getting to the intersection,
third not knowing how fast to apply the brakes to avoid being 'ejected'
from the bike. Sounds fishy to me.

Ken

Perhaps a new bike, and his first with front shocks? The first time
that I hit something on a bike with shocks I went over the front. I
wasn't ready for the front of the bike to go down. I suppose a sudden
stop, using just the front brake, would do the same thing.

Yikes!
Try this scenario: Rider is going fast on sidewalk on bike with
front suspension (unknown, unmentioned in article). Rider applies both
brakes HARD. Rider simultaneously jumps off saddle to apply feet to
sidewalk. Rider's momentum keeps him going forward -- while the bike,
without rider in saddle, has a lot less momentum to kill via the
brakes. Bike stops right there, front forks go down to absorb the
pressure the rider's arms are now placing on them (the only point of
rider/bike contact). Rider spills into street.
Plausible?

Robert Leone [email hidden]

Ken M said:

Chris Zacho 'The Wheelman said:

Any quality brake, correctly adjusted, can, if too forcefully applied,
send the hapless rider seast over handlebars. Give him a Darwin.

This is true, but it only takes a couple of stop to get used to the
brakes. But I guess he could have done a 'panic stop' which could have
led him to do an endo.

Quoted message said:

- -

"May you have the winds at your back,
And a really low gear for the hills!"

Chris Zacho ~ "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

Chris'Z Corner
http://www.geocities.com/czcorner

Quoted message said:

Yikes!
Try this scenario: Rider is going fast on sidewalk on bike with
front suspension (unknown, unmentioned in article). Rider applies both
brakes HARD. Rider simultaneously jumps off saddle to apply feet to
sidewalk. Rider's momentum keeps him going forward -- while the bike,
without rider in saddle, has a lot less momentum to kill via the
brakes. Bike stops right there, front forks go down to absorb the
pressure the rider's arms are now placing on them (the only point of
rider/bike contact). Rider spills into street.
Plausible?

Plausible, but from what I gather this guy was a regular cyclist, so I
would think (perhaps wrong) that he would have enough experience to
avoid that scenerio.

Quoted message said:

Robert Leone [email hidden]

Ken M said:

Chris Zacho 'The Wheelman said:

Any quality brake, correctly adjusted, can, if too forcefully applied,
send the hapless rider seast over handlebars. Give him a Darwin.

This is true, but it only takes a couple of stop to get used to the
brakes. But I guess he could have done a 'panic stop' which could have
led him to do an endo.

Quoted message said:

- -

"May you have the winds at your back,
And a really low gear for the hills!"

Chris Zacho ~ "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

Chris'Z Corner
http://www.geocities.com/czcorner

<[email hidden]> wrote: (clip) Rider simultaneously jumps off saddle to
apply feet to sidewalk. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Every part of the sequence you hypothesize seems plausible to me, EXCEPT the
one quoted above. I can't imagine applying full brakes, and simultaneously
jumping off the seat and planting one's feet. (Especially if he was clipped
in, which we don't know.)

The part about the front of the bike nose-diving, whether due to front
shocks, or a gutter, or a curb drop-off seems very plausible. (I went over
the handlebars on my maiden voyage on Rock Shox, when my front wheel hit a
root.)

Quoted message said:

Yikes!
Try this scenario: Rider is going fast on sidewalk on bike with
front suspension (unknown, unmentioned in article). Rider applies both
brakes HARD. Rider simultaneously jumps off saddle to apply feet to
sidewalk. Rider's momentum keeps him going forward -- while the bike,
without rider in saddle, has a lot less momentum to kill via the
brakes. Bike stops right there, front forks go down to absorb the
pressure the rider's arms are now placing on them (the only point of
rider/bike contact). Rider spills into street.
Plausible?

Robert Leone [email hidden]

Ken M said:

Chris Zacho 'The Wheelman said:

Any quality brake, correctly adjusted, can, if too forcefully applied,
send the hapless rider seast over handlebars. Give him a Darwin.

This is true, but it only takes a couple of stop to get used to the
brakes. But I guess he could have done a 'panic stop' which could have
led him to do an endo.

Quoted message said:

- -

"May you have the winds at your back,
And a really low gear for the hills!"

Chris Zacho ~ "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

Chris'Z Corner
http://www.geocities.com/czcorner

To the above top poster. Plausible but high unlikely. Besides it sounds
like The Darwin effect taking out a sidewalk speeder, which is fine with
me. Sidewalks, if used at all should be at most 3-4 MPH max.
Bill

I submit that on or about 26 Sep 2005 12:58:11 -0700, the person known
to the court as "rdclark" <[email hidden]> made a statement
(<[email hidden]> in Your
Honour's bundle) to the following effect:

Quoted message said:

McNally was riding his bicycle on the sidewalk and apparently stopped
short at a red light at the intersection of Tyson and Rowland Avenues.
He ejected from the bike into the intersection and was run over by an
oncoming car, Sgt. Albert Gramlich said. The accident is under
investigation.

Ending up in the traffic stream at an awkward moment is a known risk
with sidewalk riding, and is one of the reasons why it has been found
by several studies to be more dangerous than riding with the traffic.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

Just zis Guy said:

Ending up in the traffic stream at an awkward moment is a known risk
with sidewalk riding, and is one of the reasons why it has been found
by several studies to be more dangerous than riding with the traffic.

You need some 'study' to tell you that? I learned that from personal
experience.

Quoted message said:

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

Ken M said:

Just zis Guy said:

Ending up in the traffic stream at an awkward moment is a known risk
with sidewalk riding, and is one of the reasons why it has been found
by several studies to be more dangerous than riding with the traffic.

You need some 'study' to tell you that? I learned that from personal
experience.

Guy doesn't accept anecdotal evidence. Only large scale population
studies will do.

I submit that on or about 27 Sep 2005 14:57:38 -0700, the person known
to the court as "Ken M" <[email hidden]> made a statement
(<[email hidden]> in Your
Honour's bundle) to the following effect:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Ending up in the traffic stream at an awkward moment is a known risk
with sidewalk riding, and is one of the reasons why it has been found
by several studies to be more dangerous than riding with the traffic.

Quoted message said:

You need some 'study' to tell you that? I learned that from personal
experience.

No, but others do prefer to go by evidence rather than anecdote.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound