Bench pressing...

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

My bench press sucks.
It's my weakest lift!

If you mean of the big three, it *should* be your weakest lift.

If you mean you can curl more than you can bench, you really do suck. ;-)

Quoted message said:

I've started working with a retired power lifter at the gym and he
suggests that the reason for it is not the chest muscles so much as the
peripheral muscles involved with the lift also need to be worked with
other moves.

If my arms and front delts are weak, that is going to severely limit how
much I can move.

I've started doing military presses, and more isolation work on triceps
at his suggestion.

Any other ideas?

TIA!

Grease the groove. If you want to bench more, bench more.

T said:

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

My bench press sucks.
It's my weakest lift!

If you mean of the big three, it *should* be your weakest lift.

If you mean you can curl more than you can bench, you really do suck. ;-)

Quoted message said:

I've started working with a retired power lifter at the gym and he
suggests that the reason for it is not the chest muscles so much as the
peripheral muscles involved with the lift also need to be worked with
other moves.

If my arms and front delts are weak, that is going to severely limit how
much I can move.

I've started doing military presses, and more isolation work on triceps
at his suggestion.

Any other ideas?

TIA!

Grease the groove. If you want to bench more, bench more.

I'd agree here, but I also have to add that we've been doing some more
interesting variations of pushups in my martial arts school, and I've
noticed a lot of strength increase in those "peripheral" areas. Google
some of the pushup threads - the hindus and divebombers are always
entertaining. I like to bench with db's. You might try that for a
while if you can find them heavy enough.

- bc

In article <[email hidden]>,

T said:

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

My bench press sucks.
It's my weakest lift!

If you mean of the big three, it *should* be your weakest lift.

If you mean you can curl more than you can bench, you really do suck. ;-)

Quoted message said:

I've started working with a retired power lifter at the gym and he
suggests that the reason for it is not the chest muscles so much as the
peripheral muscles involved with the lift also need to be worked with
other moves.

If my arms and front delts are weak, that is going to severely limit how
much I can move.

I've started doing military presses, and more isolation work on triceps
at his suggestion.

Any other ideas?

TIA!

Grease the groove. If you want to bench more, bench more.

Funny thing is that most big benchers suck at the military press. And I
don't see isolation work helping.

The Russian national team coach in the sixties said: "If ze vant to
press more, than press more."

So I agree with T. Forget the isolation movements. If you want to target
the triceps more - narrow grip presses.

If you are weak off the chest - speed benches and isometrics at the
sticking point.

If you are weak at lockout - board presses and narrow grip work.

--
Keith

In article <[email hidden]>,

T said:

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

My bench press sucks.
It's my weakest lift!

If you mean of the big three, it *should* be your weakest lift.

I understand that, but I'm having trouble progressing.

Quoted message said:

If you mean you can curl more than you can bench, you really do suck. ;-)

I can curl almost as much as I bench...
so yeah, it sucks.

I can bench about 1/2 of what I can deadlift.
And it ain't because I'm a slacker. I really try.

Feet flat on the floor, shoulder blades together pushing the chest out,
and I SQUEEZE the chest muscles on the lift, trying to use them as much
as possible.

Maybe negatives? I need a decent spotter for that.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I've started working with a retired power lifter at the gym and he
suggests that the reason for it is not the chest muscles so much as the
peripheral muscles involved with the lift also need to be worked with
other moves.

If my arms and front delts are weak, that is going to severely limit how
much I can move.

I've started doing military presses, and more isolation work on triceps
at his suggestion.

Any other ideas?

TIA!

Grease the groove. If you want to bench more, bench more.

So I've been told, but for some reason that's not working. :-(
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

In article <[email hidden]>,

bc said:

T said:

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

My bench press sucks.
It's my weakest lift!

If you mean of the big three, it *should* be your weakest lift.

If you mean you can curl more than you can bench, you really do suck. ;-)

Quoted message said:

I've started working with a retired power lifter at the gym and he
suggests that the reason for it is not the chest muscles so much as the
peripheral muscles involved with the lift also need to be worked with
other moves.

If my arms and front delts are weak, that is going to severely limit how
much I can move.

I've started doing military presses, and more isolation work on triceps
at his suggestion.

Any other ideas?

TIA!

Grease the groove. If you want to bench more, bench more.

I'd agree here, but I also have to add that we've been doing some more
interesting variations of pushups in my martial arts school, and I've
noticed a lot of strength increase in those "peripheral" areas. Google
some of the pushup threads - the hindus and divebombers are always
entertaining. I like to bench with db's. You might try that for a
while if you can find them heavy enough.

- bc

Jack likes dumbells too for pressing.
This is a hard core gym so heavy dumbells are not an issue. ;-)

Okay, I may try that for a month, and check out pushups.

Thanks!
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

In article <[email hidden]>,

Hobbes said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

T said:

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

My bench press sucks.
It's my weakest lift!

If you mean of the big three, it *should* be your weakest lift.

If you mean you can curl more than you can bench, you really do suck. ;-)

Quoted message said:

I've started working with a retired power lifter at the gym and he
suggests that the reason for it is not the chest muscles so much as the
peripheral muscles involved with the lift also need to be worked with
other moves.

If my arms and front delts are weak, that is going to severely limit how
much I can move.

I've started doing military presses, and more isolation work on triceps
at his suggestion.

Any other ideas?

TIA!

Grease the groove. If you want to bench more, bench more.

Funny thing is that most big benchers suck at the military press. And I
don't see isolation work helping.

Well, yeah, I can only military press approx. 1/2 what I can bench, but
I've not done them for years. Just started doing them this week at
Jack's suggestion.

I'm told that working my triceps a bit harder can help also?
Is that incorrect?

Quoted message said:

The Russian national team coach in the sixties said: "If ze vant to
press more, than press more."

So I agree with T. Forget the isolation movements. If you want to target
the triceps more - narrow grip presses.

Oh! I'd forgotten about those, thanks for the reminder!

Quoted message said:

If you are weak off the chest - speed benches and isometrics at the
sticking point.

So lower weight?

Quoted message said:

If you are weak at lockout - board presses and narrow grip work.

Okay, I set my grip at shoulder width at present.

I'll see how that works, thanks!
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

My bench press sucks.
It's my weakest lift!

I've started working with a retired power lifter at the gym and he
suggests that the reason for it is not the chest muscles so much as the
peripheral muscles involved with the lift also need to be worked with
other moves.

If my arms and front delts are weak, that is going to severely limit how
much I can move.

I've started doing military presses, and more isolation work on triceps
at his suggestion.

Any other ideas?

TIA!

Pilates. :-)

Seriously, core work. Tighter abs translates into a better bench for me.

Dally

In article <[email hidden]>,

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Hobbes said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

T said:

OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:

> My bench press sucks.
> It's my weakest lift!

If you mean of the big three, it *should* be your weakest lift.

If you mean you can curl more than you can bench, you really do suck.
;-)
>
> I've started working with a retired power lifter at the gym and he
> suggests that the reason for it is not the chest muscles so much as the
> peripheral muscles involved with the lift also need to be worked with
> other moves.
>
> If my arms and front delts are weak, that is going to severely limit
> how
> much I can move.
>
> I've started doing military presses, and more isolation work on triceps
> at his suggestion.
>
> Any other ideas?
>
> TIA!

Grease the groove. If you want to bench more, bench more.

Funny thing is that most big benchers suck at the military press. And I
don't see isolation work helping.

Well, yeah, I can only military press approx. 1/2 what I can bench, but
I've not done them for years. Just started doing them this week at
Jack's suggestion.

I'm told that working my triceps a bit harder can help also?
Is that incorrect?

Quoted message said:

The Russian national team coach in the sixties said: "If ze vant to
press more, than press more."

So I agree with T. Forget the isolation movements. If you want to target
the triceps more - narrow grip presses.

Oh! I'd forgotten about those, thanks for the reminder!

Quoted message said:

If you are weak off the chest - speed benches and isometrics at the
sticking point.

So lower weight?

For the speed bench, lower the weight. For the isometric there are a
variety of ways. I just set the safeties in the squat rack at the place
I want and press against them.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If you are weak at lockout - board presses and narrow grip work.

Okay, I set my grip at shoulder width at present.

I'll see how that works, thanks!

--
Keith

In article <[email hidden]>,

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

T said:

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

My bench press sucks.
It's my weakest lift!

If you mean of the big three, it *should* be your weakest lift.

I understand that, but I'm having trouble progressing.

Quoted message said:

If you mean you can curl more than you can bench, you really do suck. ;-)

I can curl almost as much as I bench...
so yeah, it sucks.

I can bench about 1/2 of what I can deadlift.
And it ain't because I'm a slacker. I really try.

Feet flat on the floor, shoulder blades together pushing the chest out,
and I SQUEEZE the chest muscles on the lift, trying to use them as much
as possible.

Maybe negatives? I need a decent spotter for that.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I've started working with a retired power lifter at the gym and he
suggests that the reason for it is not the chest muscles so much as the
peripheral muscles involved with the lift also need to be worked with
other moves.

If my arms and front delts are weak, that is going to severely limit how
much I can move.

I've started doing military presses, and more isolation work on triceps
at his suggestion.

Any other ideas?

TIA!

Grease the groove. If you want to bench more, bench more.

So I've been told, but for some reason that's not working. :-(

You don't do it. Greasing the groove would be multiple bench workouts
every day, moderate weights. low reps.

Monday 3 workouts of 5 sets of 2 reps at 85% of 1rm.
Tuesday - 1 workout of 5 sets of 3 reps at 70%
Wednesday - 3 workouts of 5 sets of 3 at 80%
Thursday - 1 workout of 5 sets of 3 reps at 70%
Friday - 2 workouts of 5 sets of 2 reps at 85%

etc.

My understanding is you just do bench once per week.

Furthermore, during the bench you try and squeeze the back together and
spread the bar. Don't tense the chest - try and pull the bar apart as
you lower it. Like there was a sleeve in the middle. ANother way of
thinking of it is trying to bend the bar into an inverted 'U' shape.
This will tense the chest - and the shoulders and the arms and the back.

--
Keith

In article <[email hidden]>, Dally <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

My bench press sucks.
It's my weakest lift!

I've started working with a retired power lifter at the gym and he
suggests that the reason for it is not the chest muscles so much as the
peripheral muscles involved with the lift also need to be worked with
other moves.

If my arms and front delts are weak, that is going to severely limit how
much I can move.

I've started doing military presses, and more isolation work on triceps
at his suggestion.

Any other ideas?

TIA!

Pilates. :-)

Seriously, core work. Tighter abs translates into a better bench for me.

Dally

I do abs daily... ;-)

I've looked at Pilates, I just don't have time.
I really don't.

Cheers!
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

In article <[email hidden]>,

Hobbes said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Hobbes said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
T <[email hidden]> wrote:

> OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
>
> > My bench press sucks.
> > It's my weakest lift!
>
> If you mean of the big three, it *should* be your weakest lift.
>
> If you mean you can curl more than you can bench, you really do suck.
> ;-)
> >
> > I've started working with a retired power lifter at the gym and he
> > suggests that the reason for it is not the chest muscles so much as
> > the
> > peripheral muscles involved with the lift also need to be worked with
> > other moves.
> >
> > If my arms and front delts are weak, that is going to severely limit
> > how
> > much I can move.
> >
> > I've started doing military presses, and more isolation work on
> > triceps
> > at his suggestion.
> >
> > Any other ideas?
> >
> > TIA!
>
> Grease the groove. If you want to bench more, bench more.

Funny thing is that most big benchers suck at the military press. And I
don't see isolation work helping.

Well, yeah, I can only military press approx. 1/2 what I can bench, but
I've not done them for years. Just started doing them this week at
Jack's suggestion.

I'm told that working my triceps a bit harder can help also?
Is that incorrect?

Quoted message said:

The Russian national team coach in the sixties said: "If ze vant to
press more, than press more."

So I agree with T. Forget the isolation movements. If you want to target
the triceps more - narrow grip presses.

Oh! I'd forgotten about those, thanks for the reminder!

Quoted message said:

If you are weak off the chest - speed benches and isometrics at the
sticking point.

So lower weight?

For the speed bench, lower the weight. For the isometric there are a
variety of ways. I just set the safeties in the squat rack at the place
I want and press against them.

I see.

Cheers!
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

In article <[email hidden]>,

Hobbes said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

T said:

OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:

> My bench press sucks.
> It's my weakest lift!

If you mean of the big three, it *should* be your weakest lift.

I understand that, but I'm having trouble progressing.

Quoted message said:

If you mean you can curl more than you can bench, you really do suck.
;-)

I can curl almost as much as I bench...
so yeah, it sucks.

I can bench about 1/2 of what I can deadlift.
And it ain't because I'm a slacker. I really try.

Feet flat on the floor, shoulder blades together pushing the chest out,
and I SQUEEZE the chest muscles on the lift, trying to use them as much
as possible.

Maybe negatives? I need a decent spotter for that.

Quoted message said:

>
> I've started working with a retired power lifter at the gym and he
> suggests that the reason for it is not the chest muscles so much as the
> peripheral muscles involved with the lift also need to be worked with
> other moves.
>
> If my arms and front delts are weak, that is going to severely limit
> how
> much I can move.
>
> I've started doing military presses, and more isolation work on triceps
> at his suggestion.
>
> Any other ideas?
>
> TIA!

Grease the groove. If you want to bench more, bench more.

So I've been told, but for some reason that's not working. :-(

You don't do it. Greasing the groove would be multiple bench workouts
every day, moderate weights. low reps.

Ok, I'd not heard that term before. Sorry!

Quoted message said:

Monday 3 workouts of 5 sets of 2 reps at 85% of 1rm.
Tuesday - 1 workout of 5 sets of 3 reps at 70%
Wednesday - 3 workouts of 5 sets of 3 at 80%
Thursday - 1 workout of 5 sets of 3 reps at 70%
Friday - 2 workouts of 5 sets of 2 reps at 85%

etc.

My understanding is you just do bench once per week.

Yes, I do bench just once per week.
Bench _daily_???

Ok, WTH, it's worth a shot. :-)
And I like doing them anyway.

Quoted message said:

Furthermore, during the bench you try and squeeze the back together and
spread the bar. Don't tense the chest - try and pull the bar apart as
you lower it. Like there was a sleeve in the middle. ANother way of
thinking of it is trying to bend the bar into an inverted 'U' shape.
This will tense the chest - and the shoulders and the arms and the back.

Got it.
I do squeeze my shoulderblades together to try to use more chest when
doing them, but I like your description. Thank you!
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

In article <[email hidden]>, Dally <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

My bench press sucks.
It's my weakest lift!

I've started working with a retired power lifter at the gym and he
suggests that the reason for it is not the chest muscles so much as the
peripheral muscles involved with the lift also need to be worked with
other moves.

If my arms and front delts are weak, that is going to severely limit how
much I can move.

I've started doing military presses, and more isolation work on triceps
at his suggestion.

Any other ideas?

TIA!

Pilates. :-)

Seriously, core work. Tighter abs translates into a better bench for me.

Dally

If he is squatting and deadlifting heavy he is getting a ton of core
work.

--
Keith

In article <[email hidden]>,

Hobbes said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Dally <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

My bench press sucks.
It's my weakest lift!

I've started working with a retired power lifter at the gym and he
suggests that the reason for it is not the chest muscles so much as the
peripheral muscles involved with the lift also need to be worked with
other moves.

If my arms and front delts are weak, that is going to severely limit how
much I can move.

I've started doing military presses, and more isolation work on triceps
at his suggestion.

Any other ideas?

TIA!

Pilates. :-)

Seriously, core work. Tighter abs translates into a better bench for me.

Dally

If he is squatting and deadlifting heavy he is getting a ton of core
work.

Yes, I do deadlift heavy.
It's my best (and favorite) lift.
Every Teusday.

Squats will be done eventually once I can get a handle on the knee
issues. ;-) Right now it's heavy leg presses, hack squats, leg
extensions and ham curls.
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

In article <[email hidden]>,

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Dally <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

My bench press sucks.
It's my weakest lift!

I've started working with a retired power lifter at the gym and he
suggests that the reason for it is not the chest muscles so much as the
peripheral muscles involved with the lift also need to be worked with
other moves.

If my arms and front delts are weak, that is going to severely limit how
much I can move.

I've started doing military presses, and more isolation work on triceps
at his suggestion.

Any other ideas?

TIA!

Pilates. :-)

Seriously, core work. Tighter abs translates into a better bench for me.

Dally

I do abs daily... ;-)

I've looked at Pilates, I just don't have time.

Core is not just abs.

I'd ditch the abs and do overhead squats as a warm-up to my squat
workout. Your core will get plenty of work.

I took a class at intercession - Fitness Foundations for Life - by Bart
Arnold, who has a physiotherapy background and is big on core work. We
had about 25 students and at the end we all had to lead the class
through an abbreviated workout - 15 minutes or so. So we had done weight
training, aerobics, dance, pilates, yoga, boxercise, tai bo, etc through
the course. And most of the young people (I was the only old fogey) led
various classes. Including three Pilates instructors.

It was telling that I could get through any of the workouts (although my
grace in the ballet/modern jazz workout was questionable), but not one
person could get through the 'old school' workout I presented.

My workout was the 5 tibetan rites, followed by hindu squats to a Tabata
interval (which nobody could get through), one-armed power [censored] to
overhead squat to press and then some self controlled PNF stretches for
strengthening.

My preface to the workout was that the old school people don't worry
about isolation, core workouts, etc. They move - with power and
endurance. They work the body as a whole unit. They work from the ground
up, but they don't bother with a fancy term like closed kinetic chain.
And they work efficiently - they don't waste time with piddly-ass
[censored]. They don't worry about the 'box', power centers, TVA
recruitment, etc. They learn to move and get the body doing naturally
what it should.

If you can do an overhead squat with decent weight ATTG without your
back rounding you'll have a strong core. Period.

--
Keith

In article <[email hidden]>,

Hobbes said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Dally <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
> My bench press sucks.
> It's my weakest lift!
>
> I've started working with a retired power lifter at the gym and he
> suggests that the reason for it is not the chest muscles so much as the
> peripheral muscles involved with the lift also need to be worked with
> other moves.
>
> If my arms and front delts are weak, that is going to severely limit
> how
> much I can move.
>
> I've started doing military presses, and more isolation work on triceps
> at his suggestion.
>
> Any other ideas?
>
> TIA!

Pilates. :-)

Seriously, core work. Tighter abs translates into a better bench for me.

Dally

I do abs daily... ;-)

I've looked at Pilates, I just don't have time.

Core is not just abs.

I'd ditch the abs and do overhead squats as a warm-up to my squat
workout. Your core will get plenty of work.

I took a class at intercession - Fitness Foundations for Life - by Bart
Arnold, who has a physiotherapy background and is big on core work. We
had about 25 students and at the end we all had to lead the class
through an abbreviated workout - 15 minutes or so. So we had done weight
training, aerobics, dance, pilates, yoga, boxercise, tai bo, etc through
the course. And most of the young people (I was the only old fogey) led
various classes. Including three Pilates instructors.

It was telling that I could get through any of the workouts (although my
grace in the ballet/modern jazz workout was questionable), but not one
person could get through the 'old school' workout I presented.

My workout was the 5 tibetan rites, followed by hindu squats to a Tabata
interval (which nobody could get through), one-armed power [censored] to
overhead squat to press and then some self controlled PNF stretches for
strengthening.

My preface to the workout was that the old school people don't worry
about isolation, core workouts, etc. They move - with power and
endurance. They work the body as a whole unit. They work from the ground
up, but they don't bother with a fancy term like closed kinetic chain.
And they work efficiently - they don't waste time with piddly-ass
[censored]. They don't worry about the 'box', power centers, TVA
recruitment, etc. They learn to move and get the body doing naturally
what it should.

If you can do an overhead squat with decent weight ATTG without your
back rounding you'll have a strong core. Period.

Right now I'm just doing the body weight squats that you suggested last
week, as many as my knees can stand. I do those at home, not at the gym.
I also do them at work when I get bored and sleepy. I work night shifts.

I see your point and it's excellent.

Heaven knows deadlifts work the whole body!
Once I improve a bit on military press, I want to start doing clean and
press since it also works the whole body.
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

Hobbes said:

If you can do an overhead squat with decent weight ATTG without your
back rounding you'll have a strong core. Period.

Define "decent", please...

Neil

In article <[email hidden]>,

Neil Gendzwill said:

Hobbes said:

If you can do an overhead squat with decent weight ATTG without your
back rounding you'll have a strong core. Period.

Define "decent", please...

It depends ($ to Lyle) on the person, obviously.

For example, for someone of your age and build I would say 20-30 lbs is
decent. 50 is excellent. But there is a women at work here who is older
than you and very small. For her 5 lbs would be decent and all she
really needs. 15-20 would be excellent. She works out at the same gym
you do, but in the early am.

So age, shape, fitness goals, size, etc. all combine to define 'decent'
in this case.

--
Keith

Hobbes said:

For example, for someone of your age and build I would say 20-30 lbs is
decent. 50 is excellent.

50 total weight? Or two 50 lb dumbbells? I guess I'll just have to try
and see just for grins. I don't have too much trouble front squatting a
pair of 75s. But rumour has it the overhead variety is hard 🙂

Neil