Double to Triple

MSA said:

Looking to convert my Veloce 10 speed double to a triple chainring.

What's the most economical way to go about this?

I realise I need a new rear derailleur and a new bottom bracket, but
what about front derailleur and Ergos?

All Ergos are triple compatible.

Campag triple cranksets up to Centaur are designed to work with the 111mm
bottom bracket you have already as standard for 28.6mm seat tubes, and in
reality also sometimes work with 32mm seat tubes (does for me). 111
gives a better chainline than the 115.5mm version so I would definitely
try the existing BB first (then sort out any front derailleur problems).

Front derailleurs are especially contoured for triple rings.

Quoted message said:

My largest sprocket on the back at the moment is a 26, what's the
largest I can go to if I decide not to go down the triple conversion
route?

Officially 26, but maybe 29 with a chain on the short side.

Quoted message said:

For 99% of my riding a 39/26 is MORE than adequate, but I'm planning
to do some touring with panniers later this year and I know some of
the routes are pretty steep.

Any suggestions?

[Bearing in mind "economical"]

1) TRIPLE: Veloce triple 10-speed crankset, Xenon Medium rear
derailleur, Xenon to Centaur front triple derailleur. Or Xenon or Mirage
crankset if you don't mind steel rings (hopefully would be ok with 10sp
chain). Veloce (AC-S) or Centaur (AC-H) bottom bracket *if* a new one is
required.

2) COMPACT DOUBLE with a non-Campag crankset to save money, eg.
Stronglight or FSA, with suitable bottom bracket.

~PB

MSA said:

Looking to convert my Veloce 10 speed double to a triple chainring.

What's the most economical way to go about this?

Your new triple does not have to be Campagnolo. You can usually find
very cheap road triples and bottom bracket via mail order. Cheaper
than Veloce triple.

Quoted message said:

I realise I need a new rear derailleur and a new bottom bracket, but
what about front derailleur and Ergos?

Technically you do not need a new rear derailleur since a short cage
rear derailleur will shift a 29 tooth cog in back. But for wrapping up
chain, it is needed. Get a LONG cage rear derailleur. LONG cage, not
medium cage. Campagnolo makes three cage lengths. The medium cage
will not wrap up enough chain to prevent lots of chain droop if you
switch the inner chainring on the triple to a 26 or 24 tooth. Get the
LONG cage rear derailleur. Front triple derailleur is needed for good
shifting. No point doing the job half [censored]. As already mentioned by
another responder, your current 111mm bottom bracket spindle will most
likely work for the triple Veloce crankset. I use a 111mm bottom
bracket on my triple Centaur with a bike with 32mm seat tube.

Quoted message said:

My largest sprocket on the back at the moment is a 26, what's the
largest I can go to if I decide not to go down the triple conversion
route?

Campagnolo makes a 13-29 10 speed cassette. 29 is the biggest cog.
Your current 13-26 cassette may be low enough if you switch the inner
chainring on the triple to a 24 tooth. Get the LONG cage rear
derailleur to prevent lots of chain droop in anything but the biggest
couple cogs if you switch the inner ring to a 24.

Quoted message said:

For 99% of my riding a 39/26 is MORE than adequate, but I'm planning to
do some touring with panniers later this year and I know some of the
routes are pretty steep.

Any suggestions?

For touring with panniers, put on a 24 tooth inner chainring on the
triple. Test. Then get a 13-29 cassette if you need a lower low gear
than 24x26.

Quoted message said:

Thanks,

--
Mark
______________________________________
Nerves of Steel, Heart of Gold, Knob of Butter

Quoted message said:

MSA said:

Looking to convert my Veloce 10 speed double to a triple chainring.

What's the most economical way to go about this?

Your new triple does not have to be Campagnolo. You can usually find
very cheap road triples and bottom bracket via mail order. Cheaper
than Veloce triple.

That is true, but Campag's high crank quality and low Q factor is worth
the investment, I think. On the other hand, it would possible with
another make with a smaller BCD to have a smaller middle ring.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I realise I need a new rear derailleur and a new bottom bracket, but
what about front derailleur and Ergos?

Technically you do not need a new rear derailleur since a short cage
rear derailleur will shift a 29 tooth cog in back. But for wrapping
up chain, it is needed. Get a LONG cage rear derailleur. LONG cage,
not medium cage. Campagnolo makes three cage lengths. The medium
cage
will not wrap up enough chain to prevent lots of chain droop if you
switch the inner chainring on the triple to a 26 or 24 tooth. Get the
LONG cage rear derailleur.

I found a Medium was fine with 26/39/52 + 13-27 on one bike, and 26/39/50
+ 14-30 on another, if the small-small combos were avoided and the chain
was just long enough for the big-bigs. I only finally needed Long cages
when I customised my cassette to 13-28 on bike #1 and swapped the granny
for a 24t on bike #2.....

To be honest, the change down from my 39t middle to 24t is annoyingly
great. 26t is a more practical limit, IMO. But I don't think MSA will
want such low gears anyway judging by his comments on what is currently
"more than adequate".

~PB

Pete Biggs said:

Quoted message said:

MSA said:

Looking to convert my Veloce 10 speed double to a triple chainring.

What's the most economical way to go about this?

Your new triple does not have to be Campagnolo. You can usually find
very cheap road triples and bottom bracket via mail order. Cheaper
than Veloce triple.

That is true, but Campag's high crank quality and low Q factor is worth
the investment, I think. On the other hand, it would possible with
another make with a smaller BCD to have a smaller middle ring.

I'm all for buying superior quality Campagnolo cranksets. But the
original post did mention touring with panniers and I got the
impression the triple would be put on for limited trips. And the
Veloce double would be the main crankset. In that case, an easy to
find cheap triple and bottom bracket may be more than adequate.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I realise I need a new rear derailleur and a new bottom bracket, but
what about front derailleur and Ergos?

Technically you do not need a new rear derailleur since a short cage
rear derailleur will shift a 29 tooth cog in back. But for wrapping
up chain, it is needed. Get a LONG cage rear derailleur. LONG cage,
not medium cage. Campagnolo makes three cage lengths. The medium
cage
will not wrap up enough chain to prevent lots of chain droop if you
switch the inner chainring on the triple to a 26 or 24 tooth. Get the
LONG cage rear derailleur.

I found a Medium was fine with 26/39/52 + 13-27 on one bike, and 26/39/50
+ 14-30 on another, if the small-small combos were avoided and the chain
was just long enough for the big-bigs. I only finally needed Long cages
when I customised my cassette to 13-28 on bike #1 and swapped the granny
for a 24t on bike #2.....

To be honest, the change down from my 39t middle to 24t is annoyingly
great. 26t is a more practical limit, IMO. But I don't think MSA will
want such low gears anyway judging by his comments on what is currently
"more than adequate".

I run 52-42-30 chainrings on the triple and 13-28 cassette. Medium
cage Centaur rear derailleur. I tried switching to a 24 inner ring for
a mountain ride. But there was considerable chain droop in anythign
but the top three gears or so. 28-23-21. I did not like that. I did
not have a 26 at the time to try. It might have worked acceptably with
the medium cage. 28 tooth inner ring would have no problems with the
medium cage. Since he does not have the rear derailleur yet, I would
strongly suggest the LONG cage since it will do everything just as well
as the medium will and do more too.

If the original poster actually tours with panniers, then I think the
24 tooth inner ring will be welcome change. Particularly if he keeps
his current 26 tooth big cog as is. 24x26 low gear is 24.5 gear
inches. With panniers going up mountains, its none too low. A 24
tooth inner ring is very cheap compared to a new 13-29 10 speed
cassette. And with quality Ergo he can ease the chain down to the
inner ring so chain drop is less likely.

Quoted message said:

Pete Biggs said:

[email hidden] wrote:

Thanks Pete, thanks Russ! Great stuff. I'll come back and let y'all
know when I'm 'sorted'!

--
Mark
______________________________________
Nerves of Steel, Heart of Gold, Knob of Butter

Quoted message said:

MSA said:

Looking to convert my Veloce 10 speed double to a triple chainring.

What's the most economical way to go about this?

Your new triple does not have to be Campagnolo. You can usually find
very cheap road triples and bottom bracket via mail order. Cheaper
than Veloce triple.

Out of interest Russ, can you provide a link to what you are referring
to...bearing in mind it's 10 speed.

Thanks,

--
Mark
______________________________________
Nerves of Steel, Heart of Gold, Knob of Butter

MSA said:

Quoted message said:

MSA said:

Looking to convert my Veloce 10 speed double to a triple chainring.

What's the most economical way to go about this?

Your new triple does not have to be Campagnolo. You can usually find
very cheap road triples and bottom bracket via mail order. Cheaper
than Veloce triple.

Out of interest Russ, can you provide a link to what you are referring
to...bearing in mind it's 10 speed.

Thanks,

--
Mark
______________________________________
Nerves of Steel, Heart of Gold, Knob of Butter

Crankset does not care if 10-9-8-7 speed. Thus you go over to Nashbar
and find a cheap triple crankset. $54.95

http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=81&subcategory=1034&brand=&sku=15121&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=

That takes very cheap square taper bottom brackets. And then you buy a
cheap one. $9.99

http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=73&subcategory=1096&brand=&sku=2288&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=

And this is without the almost ubiquitous 10% off Nashbar coupon codes.
Under $60, plus shipping for a triple crankset and bottom bracket. A
cheap 24 tooth inner ring for the triple is $9.95. Although this seems
kind of high. You can find better bargains than $9.95.

http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=81&subcategory=1032&brand=&sku=9279&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=

You might be better off just buying a cheap mountain bike crankset that
uses a square bottom bracket. Comes with 44-32-22 teeth. Ergo will
shift it just fine. $49.95

http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=81&subcategory=1031&brand=&sku=15366&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=

I cannot find anyone selling the Veloce triple crankset. I think its
around $120.

Quoted message said:

I cannot find anyone selling the Veloce triple crankset. I think its
around $120.

Less in the UK, and Xenon and Mirage's are remarkably cheap if steel /
steel&alloy rings are acceptable.

See http://www.dotbike.com

and http://www.parker-international.co.uk

~PB

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I cannot find anyone selling the Veloce triple crankset. I think its
around $120.

Less in the UK, and Xenon and Mirage's are remarkably cheap if steel /
steel&alloy rings are acceptable.

See http://www.dotbike.com

and http://www.parker-international.co.uk

~PB

But Xenon & Mirage are 9 speed. Russell, you say it makes no
difference...can't be right?

Why the different products then, am I missing something? I'm guessing
it must be the width of the chain that makes the difference, hence a
different rear der, and different cassettes, but the same fr. der.

Yours confused.

--
Mark
______________________________________
Nerves of Steel, Heart of Gold, Knob of Butter

MSA said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I cannot find anyone selling the Veloce triple crankset. I think its
around $120.

Less in the UK, and Xenon and Mirage's are remarkably cheap if steel /
steel&alloy rings are acceptable.

See http://www.dotbike.com

and http://www.parker-international.co.uk

~PB

But Xenon & Mirage are 9 speed. Russell, you say it makes no
difference...can't be right?

It is right. Makes no difference. Cranksets don't care. When
Campagnolo went to 10 speed, they milled a new outer ring (labeled 10
speed) so the teeth would be closer to the frame. This reduces the gap
between the teeth on the outer ring and inner ring on 10 speed
cranksets. Fractions of a mm different. In use it makes no
difference. Put a 9 speed crankset on and a 10 speed chain and all
will be well.

Quoted message said:

Why the different products then, am I missing something?

Campagnolo sells 9 and 10 speed systems. They want to differentiate
them to the consumer.

I'm guessing

Quoted message said:

it must be the width of the chain that makes the difference,

Chain is different between 9 and 10 speed.

hence a

Quoted message said:

different rear der,

No. Same rear derailleurs. Not sure of the product line now, but for
many years you could get Record, Chorus, Centaur/Daytona in either 9 or
10 speed. Same rear derailleur. Just different label. One saying 9
speed and the other saying 10 speed.

and different cassettes,

Yes.

but the same fr. der.

Yes.

Quoted message said:

Yours confused.

--
Mark
______________________________________
Nerves of Steel, Heart of Gold, Knob of Butter

There is one minor actual difference between Campag 9 and 10sp rear
derailleurs now: 9sp jockey wheel WASHERS are thicker but this shouldn't
matter this way round: 9sp derailleur with 10sp chain. (The other way did
matter in my experience).

~PB

Quoted message said:

There is one minor actual difference between Campag 9 and 10sp rear
derailleurs now: 9sp jockey wheel WASHERS are thicker but this shouldn't
matter this way round: 9sp derailleur with 10sp chain. (The other way did
matter in my experience).

~PB

Great answers guys, thank you.

So cost wise (UK), my best option is a Xenon/Mirage/Veloce 9 speed
triple crankset, and a 9 speed Xenon/Mirage/Veloce medium rear
derailleur, and any front derailleur for a triple crankset.

Not sure what size BB I have, but I will try it on what I have and see
how it runs/changes...guess that's the best way?

--
Mark
______________________________________
Nerves of Steel, Heart of Gold, Knob of Butter

MSA said:

Quoted message said:

There is one minor actual difference between Campag 9 and 10sp rear
derailleurs now: 9sp jockey wheel WASHERS are thicker but this shouldn't
matter this way round: 9sp derailleur with 10sp chain. (The other way did
matter in my experience).

~PB

Great answers guys, thank you.

So cost wise (UK), my best option is a Xenon/Mirage/Veloce 9 speed
triple crankset, and a 9 speed Xenon/Mirage/Veloce medium rear
derailleur, and any front derailleur for a triple crankset.

LONG cage rear derailleur. LONG.

Quoted message said:

Not sure what size BB I have, but I will try it on what I have and see
how it runs/changes...guess that's the best way?

You have the 111 mm bottom bracket if you have a double Veloce crankset
now.

Quoted message said:

--
Mark
______________________________________
Nerves of Steel, Heart of Gold, Knob of Butter

Quoted message said:

MSA said:

So cost wise (UK), my best option is a Xenon/Mirage/Veloce 9 speed
triple crankset, and a 9 speed Xenon/Mirage/Veloce medium rear
derailleur, and any front derailleur for a triple crankset.

LONG cage rear derailleur. LONG.

Or medium if sure you'll never want a bottom gear lower than 26x26 and
don't want to use the smallest 4 rear sprockets + inner chainring.

It's only recently that the Campag "long" cage has become extra long. The
Medium is equivalent to the older "Triple" mechs that Campag users used
without problems for ages (some with smaller than standard chainrings).

~PB