SS Disc Question

[email hidden said:

"]A racer friend just picked up a replacement Bianchi SS frame. It's
basically the same as his old one except for disc mounts. There are no
mounts for rim brakes.
He set himself up with some Avid mechs and a Surly hub in the back.
He discovered, though, that to remove the rear wheel in case of a flat
he'd have to undo the bolts connecting the brake caliper from the frame
in order to clear the rotor and pass through the horizontal dropouts.
That's quite a pain in the ass, and, competitively, race-ending.
Is there any aftermarket way around this? It makes a strong case for
buying a frame with a cam bb.
We discussed stacking shims, but that would leave very little surface
area for the pads to engage. It would also leave you with a very long
bolt to shear. Maybe if he used a larger rotor with some cnc'd gizmo
spacer?
ALSO: anybody use a QR on their SS?

Just wondering,

Scott

I have a Bianchi S.A.S.S. and the mounts on the frame are slotted... All I need to do is loosen the caliper and slide it out of the way... When the wheel is replaced simply slide the caliper back into position and tighten...
What Bianchi frame is this?
Eccentric BBs are cool but there is the dreaded weight penalty

Jimbo(san)

Jimbo (san) said:

Quoted message said:

A racer friend just picked up a replacement Bianchi SS frame. It's
basically the same as his old one except for disc mounts. There are no
mounts for rim brakes.
He set himself up with some Avid mechs and a Surly hub in the back.
He discovered, though, that to remove the rear wheel in case of a flat
he'd have to undo the bolts connecting the brake caliper from the
frame
in order to clear the rotor and pass through the horizontal dropouts.
That's quite a pain in the ass, and, competitively, race-ending.
Is there any aftermarket way around this? It makes a strong case for
buying a frame with a cam bb.
We discussed stacking shims, but that would leave very little surface
area for the pads to engage. It would also leave you with a very long
bolt to shear. Maybe if he used a larger rotor with some cnc'd gizmo
spacer?
ALSO: anybody use a QR on their SS?

Just wondering,

Scott

I have a Bianchi S.A.S.S. and the mounts on the frame are slotted...
All I need to do is loosen the caliper and slide it out of the way...
When the wheel is replaced simply slide the caliper back into position
and tighten...
What Bianchi frame is this?
Eccentric BBs are cool but there is the dreaded weight penalty

Jimbo(san)

--
Jimbo(san)

The frame is a GUSS-type (http://www.bianchiusa.com/593.html), aluminum
with horizontal ends. It's matte black, FWIW, maybe last year's?
I'm not suggesting that loosening a couple bolts and then tightening
them down to change the rear tube requires an engineering degree. It
just seems a little inconvenient (esp for a racer) and, in my mind,
avoidable with higher disc-side forkend disc mounts?

/s

Quoted message said:

Jimbo (san) said:

Quoted message said:

A racer friend just picked up a replacement Bianchi SS frame. It's
basically the same as his old one except for disc mounts. There are no
mounts for rim brakes.
He set himself up with some Avid mechs and a Surly hub in the back.
He discovered, though, that to remove the rear wheel in case of a flat
he'd have to undo the bolts connecting the brake caliper from the
frame
in order to clear the rotor and pass through the horizontal dropouts.
That's quite a pain in the ass, and, competitively, race-ending.
Is there any aftermarket way around this? It makes a strong case for
buying a frame with a cam bb.
We discussed stacking shims, but that would leave very little surface
area for the pads to engage. It would also leave you with a very long
bolt to shear. Maybe if he used a larger rotor with some cnc'd gizmo
spacer?
ALSO: anybody use a QR on their SS?

Just wondering,

Scott

I have a Bianchi S.A.S.S. and the mounts on the frame are slotted...
All I need to do is loosen the caliper and slide it out of the way...
When the wheel is replaced simply slide the caliper back into position
and tighten...
What Bianchi frame is this?
Eccentric BBs are cool but there is the dreaded weight penalty

Jimbo(san)

--
Jimbo(san)

The frame is a GUSS-type (http://www.bianchiusa.com/593.html), aluminum
with horizontal ends. It's matte black, FWIW, maybe last year's?
I'm not suggesting that loosening a couple bolts and then tightening
them down to change the rear tube requires an engineering degree. It
just seems a little inconvenient (esp for a racer) and, in my mind,
avoidable with higher disc-side forkend disc mounts?

/s

I saw a few different solutions in the MTBR forums on the SS forum
sometime last week. The site seems to be down at the moment, but when
it's back up have a look there. There were several solutions and much
discussion surrounding each of their merits and pitfalls. Photos too.

Matt (I do miss my discs when on the SS)

Quoted message said:

A racer friend just picked up a replacement Bianchi SS frame. It's
basically the same as his old one except for disc mounts. There are no
mounts for rim brakes.
He set himself up with some Avid mechs and a Surly hub in the back.
He discovered, though, that to remove the rear wheel in case of a flat
he'd have to undo the bolts connecting the brake caliper from the
frame in order to clear the rotor and pass through the horizontal
dropouts. That's quite a pain in the ass, and, competitively,
race-ending.
Is there any aftermarket way around this? It makes a strong case for
buying a frame with a cam bb.
We discussed stacking shims, but that would leave very little surface
area for the pads to engage. It would also leave you with a very long
bolt to shear. Maybe if he used a larger rotor with some cnc'd gizmo
spacer?
ALSO: anybody use a QR on their SS?

Just wondering,

Scott

Yes. There's a very easy solution to that. [1] When mounting the tube,
don't install just one, install two! Yes, that requires drilling another
hole in the rim. But, when you get one flat, you then ignore the flat tube
and simply inflate the second one. Hopefully the puncturing agent is no
longer in the tire, and the puncturing agent won't be long enough to poke
the other tube.

Overall cost: $0 if you have an extra tube and a drill with the appropriate
size bit.

You could technically go overboard and get some latex tubes, drill holes
between every spoke hole, and put in 24, 28, 32, or 36 tubes and never have
to change a flat again!

[1] Yes, increased rolling resistance and unneeded rotating weight. Works
for v-brakes or hub brakes too, though. And far faster to deal with if you
have coaster brakes.
--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

[email hidden] wrote:
<snip>

Quoted message said:

ALSO: anybody use a QR on their SS?

Yes, I have a QR on 2 of my single speeds. It works well in my
experience, but you need to do two things: (1) Use a good steel QR,
like Shimano or Campy. Do NOT use a crappy Mavic or Salsa or other
cam-type QR, or anything titanium. (2) Loosen the hub bearings so that
there's a little play in them when the wheel is off the bike. The QR
needs to be quite tight to hold the wheel in place. When the QR is
this tight, it will compress the axle and make the bearings tighter.

-Vee

Vee said:

[email hidden] wrote:
<snip>

Quoted message said:

ALSO: anybody use a QR on their SS?

Yes, I have a QR on 2 of my single speeds. It works well in my
experience, but you need to do two things: (1) Use a good steel QR,
like Shimano or Campy. Do NOT use a crappy Mavic or Salsa or other
cam-type QR, or anything titanium. (2) Loosen the hub bearings so that
there's a little play in them when the wheel is off the bike. The QR
needs to be quite tight to hold the wheel in place. When the QR is
this tight, it will compress the axle and make the bearings tighter.

-Vee

Horizontal drops and no slippage? I remember reading somewhere that you
can get more pressure on the ends with a QR than track nuts. It worked
on mtb's and road bikes before vertical drops became standard....

/s

Phil said:

Quoted message said:

A racer friend just picked up a replacement Bianchi SS frame. It's
basically the same as his old one except for disc mounts. There are no
mounts for rim brakes.
He set himself up with some Avid mechs and a Surly hub in the back.
He discovered, though, that to remove the rear wheel in case of a flat
he'd have to undo the bolts connecting the brake caliper from the
frame in order to clear the rotor and pass through the horizontal
dropouts. That's quite a pain in the ass, and, competitively,
race-ending.
Is there any aftermarket way around this? It makes a strong case for
buying a frame with a cam bb.
We discussed stacking shims, but that would leave very little surface
area for the pads to engage. It would also leave you with a very long
bolt to shear. Maybe if he used a larger rotor with some cnc'd gizmo
spacer?
ALSO: anybody use a QR on their SS?

Just wondering,

Scott

Yes. There's a very easy solution to that. [1] When mounting the tube,
don't install just one, install two! Yes, that requires drilling another
hole in the rim. But, when you get one flat, you then ignore the flat tube
and simply inflate the second one. Hopefully the puncturing agent is no
longer in the tire, and the puncturing agent won't be long enough to poke
the other tube.

Overall cost: $0 if you have an extra tube and a drill with the appropriate
size bit.

You could technically go overboard and get some latex tubes, drill holes
between every spoke hole, and put in 24, 28, 32, or 36 tubes and never have
to change a flat again!

[1] Yes, increased rolling resistance and unneeded rotating weight. Works
for v-brakes or hub brakes too, though. And far faster to deal with if you
have coaster brakes.
--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

Shall I respond with the oft-asked, "Why not just use a solid tire?"

/s

Vee said:

[email hidden] wrote:
<snip>

Quoted message said:

ALSO: anybody use a QR on their SS?

Do NOT use a crappy Mavic or Salsa or other
cam-type QR, or anything titanium.

I agree that titanium QRs are not a wise choice and that Mavic's QRs
are crappy, but don't agree that Salsa QRs are crappy. I have Salsas
on a few of my bicycles and have never had a problem with them. As far
as using a QR on a SS rear wheel, I think it's most definitely a highly
unwise choice because no QR is truly strong enough for that task with
most riders, esecially if they are not a flyweight.

JD

JD said:

Vee said:

[email hidden] wrote:
<snip>

Quoted message said:

ALSO: anybody use a QR on their SS?

Do NOT use a crappy Mavic or Salsa or other
cam-type QR, or anything titanium.

I agree that titanium QRs are not a wise choice and that Mavic's QRs
are crappy, but don't agree that Salsa QRs are crappy. I have Salsas
on a few of my bicycles and have never had a problem with them.

Okay, Salsa QRs are not crappy. They're still the cam-type, though,
and in my experience it's harder to get cam-type QRs really tight. I
used to have a road bike with King hubs. It was tough to get the Salsa
QR to tighten enough to take out the play in the rear hub, but when I
used my BOB trailer QR (very similar to Shimano/Campy), it was easy to
get rid of the play (of course, I could have just adjusted the hub, but
my point is about getting the QR really tight).

Quoted message said:

As far
as using a QR on a SS rear wheel, I think it's most definitely a highly
unwise choice because no QR is truly strong enough for that task with
most riders, esecially if they are not a flyweight.

???
It's worked really well for me on 2 mountain bikes. One is an old Gary
Fisher that has mangled vertical dropouts. It's currently a slick-tire
fixie, but it sometimes gets a freewheel and knobbies and goes off
road. There is no axle at all in the dropouts, only the QR skewer.
Works just fine, even with my 190ish lbs. on it.
The other bike is a Surly 1x1. I got sick of carrying a 15mm, so I
converted it to QR. I've only done a few rides on it so far, no major
problems. I have noticed that the QR has to be tighter than on my
Fisher (probably because the Surly has lower gearing).

-Vee

, but don't agree that Salsa QRs are crappy. I have Salsas

Quoted message said:

on a few of my bicycles and have never had a problem with them. As far
as using a QR on a SS rear wheel, I think it's most definitely a highly
unwise choice because no QR is truly strong enough for that task with
most riders, esecially if they are not a flyweight.

Salsa QRs are a little longer than standard mtb QRs. They were the only
ones I could find locally that would fit my Planet-X because of the extra
thick dropouts. The quality appears to be the same as my Salsa seatpost QR
which is second to none. Pricey but worth it.

Vee said:

JD said:

Vee said:

[email hidden] wrote:
<snip>
> ALSO: anybody use a QR on their SS?

Do NOT use a crappy Mavic or Salsa or other
cam-type QR, or anything titanium.

I agree that titanium QRs are not a wise choice and that Mavic's QRs
are crappy, but don't agree that Salsa QRs are crappy. I have Salsas
on a few of my bicycles and have never had a problem with them.

Okay, Salsa QRs are not crappy. They're still the cam-type, though,
and in my experience it's harder to get cam-type QRs really tight. I
used to have a road bike with King hubs. It was tough to get the Salsa
QR to tighten enough to take out the play in the rear hub, but when I
used my BOB trailer QR (very similar to Shimano/Campy), it was easy to
get rid of the play (of course, I could have just adjusted the hub, but
my point is about getting the QR really tight).

Quoted message said:

As far
as using a QR on a SS rear wheel, I think it's most definitely a highly
unwise choice because no QR is truly strong enough for that task with
most riders, esecially if they are not a flyweight.

???
It's worked really well for me on 2 mountain bikes. One is an old Gary
Fisher that has mangled vertical dropouts. It's currently a slick-tire
fixie, but it sometimes gets a freewheel and knobbies and goes off
road. There is no axle at all in the dropouts, only the QR skewer.
Works just fine, even with my 190ish lbs. on it.
The other bike is a Surly 1x1. I got sick of carrying a 15mm, so I
converted it to QR. I've only done a few rides on it so far, no major
problems. I have noticed that the QR has to be tighter than on my
Fisher (probably because the Surly has lower gearing).

-Vee

I've snapped a couple of steel QRs (both [censored]) on a hardtail and
would never evewn attempt to run a QR on a SS rear wheel. You may wish
to carry a spare in your pack on epic type rides.

BTW, the WORD hub on the rear wheel of my SS has 6mm hex wrench bolts
holding the rear wheel on, so I don't carry a 15mm wrench either.

JD

< JD wrote

BTW, the WORD hub on the rear wheel of my SS has 6mm hex wrench bolts
holding the rear wheel on, so I don't carry a 15mm wrench either.

JD>

Same on the Bianchi.. 6mm on the Spot hub...

Jimbo

jack said:

Salsa QRs are a little longer than standard mtb QRs.

This is the one thing I don't like about them, myself. It means that
they thread poorly onto the wheel mounts on my Yakima rack.

CC

"Corvus Corvax" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

jack said:

Salsa QRs are a little longer than standard mtb QRs.

This is the one thing I don't like about them, myself. It means that
they thread poorly onto the wheel mounts on my Yakima rack.

CC

I use a Sportworks rack so I don't take my wheels off.

The front only would work with a QR.

Quoted message said:

The front only would work with a QR.

yer fulluvit.

-Vee

Vee said:

Quoted message said:

The front only would work with a QR.

yer fulluvit.

Nuh uh, he's crazy.

JD

Vee said:

JD said:

Vee said:

[email hidden] wrote:
<snip>
> ALSO: anybody use a QR on their SS?

Do NOT use a crappy Mavic or Salsa or other
cam-type QR, or anything titanium.

I agree that titanium QRs are not a wise choice and that Mavic's QRs
are crappy, but don't agree that Salsa QRs are crappy. I have Salsas
on a few of my bicycles and have never had a problem with them.

Okay, Salsa QRs are not crappy. They're still the cam-type, though,
and in my experience it's harder to get cam-type QRs really tight. I
used to have a road bike with King hubs. It was tough to get the
Salsa QR to tighten enough to take out the play in the rear hub, but
when I used my BOB trailer QR (very similar to Shimano/Campy), it was
easy to get rid of the play (of course, I could have just adjusted
the hub, but my point is about getting the QR really tight).

Quoted message said:

As far
as using a QR on a SS rear wheel, I think it's most definitely a
highly unwise choice because no QR is truly strong enough for that
task with most riders, esecially if they are not a flyweight.

???
It's worked really well for me on 2 mountain bikes. One is an old
Gary Fisher that has mangled vertical dropouts. It's currently a
slick-tire fixie, but it sometimes gets a freewheel and knobbies and
goes off road. There is no axle at all in the dropouts, only the QR
skewer. Works just fine, even with my 190ish lbs. on it.
The other bike is a Surly 1x1. I got sick of carrying a 15mm, so I
converted it to QR. I've only done a few rides on it so far, no major
problems. I have noticed that the QR has to be tighter than on my
Fisher (probably because the Surly has lower gearing).

No. Lower gearing *decreases* slip.
--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

Phil said:

No. Lower gearing *decreases* slip.
--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

Huh? "Everyone" knows smaller chainrings = greater chain tug = more
slipping. This is a rec.bike.tech dead horse (recent one, even:
http://tinyurl.com/avcod).

-Vee