wilderness 101

How much did you pay to ride 101 miles? What's stopping you from just
going out and riding 101 miles on your own, without the thundering
herd? I would venture to guess that most mountain bikers think of a
"wilderness" type ride being "out there" without a large crowd for a
true "wilderness" experience.

JD

i suppose even a [censored] question like that deserves something of a
reply....the 3,000 miles i put in over this past winter, spring, and
summer - in arizona, caifornia, alaska, pennsylvania, virginia,
maryland, and north carolina all were free. and along the way there
were porcupines ,bears, cows, steers, a moose, rattlesnakes, countless
hawk, the occasional teenage biker idiot, the inevitable redneck in the
woods, and so on.

so technically there never was anything stopping me from riding 100
here or 50 there and doing so without a thundering herd. it was great
fun.

some riders i suppose, want to actually accomplish a few things. there
are those who either hate or cannot climb and who shuttlecock up in
cars or jeeps and bomb down. there are others who ride more passively,
never attemping gonzo downhill. there are those who like to race. and
probably dozens of other varieties of riders out there who do their own
version of whatever works. for me, i like to compete. wanna race JD?
i've got a few 50-125 mile circuits within in a half day's ride of my
house in virginia or out in arizona. happy to take you on.

Per czb:

Quoted message said:

in arizona, caifornia, alaska, pennsylvania, virginia,
maryland, and north carolina all were free. and along the way there
were porcupines ,bears, cows, steers, a moose, rattlesnakes, countless
hawk, the occasional teenage biker idiot, the inevitable redneck in the
woods, and so on.

so technically there never was anything stopping me from riding 100
here or 50 there and doing so without a thundering herd.

When I'm down windsurfing in Hatteras, every so often I go ocean sailing at one
of those beach spots where there's just *nobody*.

Sounds really nice when I think of it.... but when I'm out there all alone -
just me and the same ocean that's probably swallowed at least a million other
people without even burping - I definately get a little weirded out....
--
PeteCresswell

czb wrote:
<snip ranting>

You never answered how much it cost you to ride in the thundering herd.
Funny how you had to resort to calling my question "[censored]" and then
not have the intestinal fortitude to answer it, even from behind your
keyboard.

Quoted message said:

wanna race JD?

You must have me confused with a racist. Amateur racing is a waste of
time and racing on public lands where some weenie promoter makes money
should be banned because of the impact from the thundering herd of
amateurs.

Your chest thumping (especially the mileage counting) and place
name-dropping are pathetic at best. You'll never really know just how
fast or slow I am, will you?

JD

you are right. i will never know how slow you are.

most 100s are about $100-125 reg fee

czb said:

you are right. i will never know how slow you are.

More chest thumping, how predictable. Why not make it a complete
chest-thump and post your name and results from your conquering of
barneys?

Quoted message said:

most 100s are about $100-125 reg fee

I can think of about two dozen places I could use $125 gas money to go
ride my bike instead of pissing it into some promoter's pocket.

JD

"czb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

you are right. i will never know how slow you are.

I don't know how fast you are but I'd still put my money on JD. And even if
you are faster I guarantee you wouldn't ride half the [censored] that he does.
Being able to ride things others won't is far more interesting than being
able to ride fast for 100 miles.

Quoted message said:

most 100s are about $100-125 reg fee

The only 100 I would waste my money on is a local underground race that had
a $5 entry fee that went to pay for post-ride beer and a custom VVA coin for
1st place.

Greg

I don't know how fast you are but I'd still put my money on JD. And
even if
you are faster I guarantee you wouldn't ride half the [censored] that he
does.
Being able to ride things others won't is far more interesting than
being
able to ride fast for 100 miles.
--------

put your money on jd.

--------
And even if you are faster I guarantee you wouldn't ride half the [censored]
that he does.
Being able to ride things others won't is far more interesting than
being
able to ride fast for 100 miles.

that's my point.....sort of. there are some people who are really
terrible climbers or in any case hate it. so they schlep a ride to the
top and bomb down. no one is harmed by this, they have a great time.
others fear such decents, so they xc. and so on. for me, i like the
long rides that combine lots of different terrain over a whole day. i
like the challenge against the course/terrain, the clock, and to some
degree everyone else. others might hate this, and prefer something
else instead. but to disparage race promoters - who are usually local
bike shops in partnership with manufacturers and who in the process are
often able to open more trails - makes no sense to me. the
overwhelming proportion of people at bike races, whether in west
virginia or utah, are like any other social gathering. what's not to
like? and if it's not your thing, what's the gripe?

czb said:

but to disparage race promoters - who are usually local
bike shops in partnership with manufacturers and who in the process are
often able to open more trails - makes no sense to me. the
overwhelming proportion of people at bike races, whether in west
virginia or utah, are like any other social gathering. what's not to
like? and if it's not your thing, what's the gripe?

Well, in some cases, especially in the SW desert, some racers come
along and turn good singletrack into a six-foot wide path of
destruction, suitable only for 4-wheelers. I've seen pictures.

I have seen decent trails elsewhere turned into mud pits that then go
downhill and have to be permanently closed, because they are no longer
rideable or hikeable. A social gathering is fine - get together ten
folks, go ride around in the woods, have a few beers - good fun. Why
does it have to be a competition? Heck, I like being the last guy up
the trail sometimes.

Even in the places that there is no trail damage, I have seen tons of
trash along the trails afterwards - powerbar wrappers and the like.
So, racing's not my thing, but I've got plenty of gripes about it.
There just aren't many trails that are suitable for racing. And of
those that are, the promoters and sponsors don't seem to be able to
clean up afterwards. (Maybe some do, but I've seen several that were
completely trash-filled.)

I can absolutely see why folks think racing is bad for MTBing. And I'd
mostly agree with them. I wish they'd do it on private land, dedicated
to that kind of thing.

E.P.

Quoted message said:

Well, in some cases, especially in the SW desert, some racers come
along and turn good singletrack into a six-foot wide path of
destruction, suitable only for 4-wheelers. I've seen pictures.

I've seen the end result too many times, especially post-24 hours of
mohab and it's bad for the sport as a whole when a bunch of desperate
herd people on bikes ruin a trail.

Quoted message said:

A social gathering is fine - get together ten
folks, go ride around in the woods, have a few beers - good fun.

Yeah, it would almost be a shame if those kinds of rides turned out to
ride a trail faster than most of the desperate herdites.

Quoted message said:

Why does it have to be a competition?

To feed fragile egos. There's not a thing wrong with friendly
competition amongst friends, but "serious" strangers in a desperate
thundering herd are almost comical.

JD

"czb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

i suppose even a [censored] question like that deserves something of a
reply....the 3,000 miles i put in over this past winter, spring, and
summer - in arizona, caifornia, alaska, pennsylvania, virginia,
maryland, and north carolina all were free. and along the way there
were porcupines ,bears, cows, steers, a moose, rattlesnakes, countless
hawk, the occasional teenage biker idiot, the inevitable redneck in the
woods, and so on.

so technically there never was anything stopping me from riding 100
here or 50 there and doing so without a thundering herd. it was great
fun.

some riders i suppose, want to actually accomplish a few things. there
are those who either hate or cannot climb and who shuttlecock up in
cars or jeeps and bomb down. there are others who ride more passively,
never attemping gonzo downhill. there are those who like to race. and
probably dozens of other varieties of riders out there who do their own
version of whatever works. for me, i like to compete. wanna race JD?
i've got a few 50-125 mile circuits within in a half day's ride of my
house in virginia or out in arizona. happy to take you on.

Save it. Nobody on this board races for whatever reason and you're not
going to change their minds.

Challenging people to a 'duel' just makes those of us who do race look bad.

I'll be in VA labor day weekend. What can you tell me about the course?
How does it differ from the 101?

Good luck!

Look forward to meeting at the S100 over Labor Day.

I can't tell you anything right now except to pass along second hand
information, which I am happy to do if you want. Talked to many who
rode the W101 who have done the S100 and I can let you know what they
told me.

Monday August 8 I am going to pre-ride the Southern Traverse, which is
about a 30-34 mile section (IMBA lists it as one of their epics); the
Southern Traverse is a part of the S100 course. Tuesday I will
pre-ride the major climb out of mile 60 which is a grueling 24 mile
beast. That way I figure I will have by next week some sense of about
3/5 of the course. If you are not from the Virginia area I can tell
you having done some rides at Skyline and Elizabeth Furnace, that in
some cases (like Skyline) it's not the grade that cooks you it's the
endlessness of the climb, and in others (Elizabeth Furnace at Signal
Knob) the terrain can wreck you and your bike.

I'll be more than happy to send you notes if you want.

oh yeah...the w101 is about 11,200 ft of climbing. S100 is 12-14,000
depending on how the maps are read and by whom.

"czb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Look forward to meeting at the S100 over Labor Day.

I can't tell you anything right now except to pass along second hand
information, which I am happy to do if you want. Talked to many who
rode the W101 who have done the S100 and I can let you know what they
told me.

Monday August 8 I am going to pre-ride the Southern Traverse, which is
about a 30-34 mile section (IMBA lists it as one of their epics); the
Southern Traverse is a part of the S100 course. Tuesday I will
pre-ride the major climb out of mile 60 which is a grueling 24 mile
beast. That way I figure I will have by next week some sense of about
3/5 of the course. If you are not from the Virginia area I can tell
you having done some rides at Skyline and Elizabeth Furnace, that in
some cases (like Skyline) it's not the grade that cooks you it's the
endlessness of the climb, and in others (Elizabeth Furnace at Signal
Knob) the terrain can wreck you and your bike.

I'll be more than happy to send you notes if you want.

I know nothing about the area or the trails so any information would help
(like the 24 mile climb at mile 60).

"czb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Look forward to meeting at the S100 over Labor Day.

I can't tell you anything right now except to pass along second hand
information, which I am happy to do if you want. Talked to many who
rode the W101 who have done the S100 and I can let you know what they
told me.

Monday August 8 I am going to pre-ride the Southern Traverse, which is
about a 30-34 mile section (IMBA lists it as one of their epics); the
Southern Traverse is a part of the S100 course. Tuesday I will
pre-ride the major climb out of mile 60 which is a grueling 24 mile
beast.

How can a 24 mile climb in a state where the highest mountain is under 6000'
be grueling? What grade is that? .3%?

Greg

TM said:

Challenging people to a 'duel' just makes those of us who do race look bad.

As does thrashing public lands in the name of "ego". You all may as
well just join the off-trail freeride set.

JD

G.T. said:

"czb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Monday August 8 I am going to pre-ride the Southern Traverse, which is
about a 30-34 mile section (IMBA lists it as one of their epics); the
Southern Traverse is a part of the S100 course. Tuesday I will
pre-ride the major climb out of mile 60 which is a grueling 24 mile
beast.

How can a 24 mile climb in a state where the highest mountain is under 6000'
be grueling? What grade is that? .3%?

Maybe Oliver Twist threw up on that "horrendous" climb.

JD

How can a 24 mile climb in a state where the highest mountain is under
6000'
be grueling? What grade is that? .3%?
Greg

----
its a long slow incline, kinda the hallmark of the shendoah in general.
the way they cut skyline drive, for instance, means you just kind of
go up at a modest incline for a long time. a lot of the line b/w va
and wva is cut like that

to my knowlege none of the 100 tops above 4100; i think that particular
segment is from about mile 56/57 at 2000 ft to mile marker 82 or so at
4200ft.

in the george washington forest, when you ride on fire or logging or
gravel roads, it's a lot of that kind of grade, and it comes before and
after the various single track sections that are shorter and steeper.

"JD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

As does thrashing public lands in the name of "ego".

My ego likes it better when I don't race.