wilderness 101

TM said:

"JD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

As does thrashing public lands in the name of "ego".

My ego likes it better when I don't race.

Like I told "czb", drop your name and let's see some race results.

JD

czb said:

oh yeah...the w101 is about 11,200 ft of climbing. S100 is 12-14,000
depending on how the maps are read and by whom.

If that were at altitude (>6000'😉 I consider it extensive. Try doing the
Leadville 100 then write back.

I use to race, not to thump my chest but to meet people. The guys I ride
with now I met at races. None of us race anymore mainly due to the things
JD describes about race venues. Ride one of your race courses the day after
a race and observe the damage first hand, not to mention all of the trash.
Personally I think the promoter should be held accountable for restoring the
trail to its pre-race condition.

Gary

the leadville is by lottery - i just sent SASE requesting
"application". apparently leadville sends out the notices in january
each year for their august race. i have hear durango 100 is excellent.

i appreciate the worry about damage from racing. and i did think to
myself during the w101 about that, espcially as it rained hard for
several hours. i noticed a few things in that regard. first the w101
only had about 200 riders, give or take. that number doesn't seem to
me to be too large. by contrast, the leadville 100 takes 750 and that
might be a sufficiently large # to cause damage; i just don;t know.

during the w101 i didn;t notice any widening of trails, though i am
sure it had to happen given the rain.

the promoters of the w101 and the s100 do something quite responsible i
think. they prohibit riders from taking gels and the like, and they
instead provide flasks that you trade in for refills at the aid
stations. likewise, they give you replacement tires for flats, but you
have to bring the flatted one for trade. so both those steps help
minimize trash. the only trash per se i saw on the trail was some
water bottles on some descents that had obviously blown loose from the
bumpy ride down.

near as i can tell from this effort anyways, a serious attempt was made
to be a good steward.

on your last point, i think from the tenor of the social setting before
and after the race, the majority of people i met were there to test
themselves against a tough course and to meet people. almost all but
the people capable of winning who i met resigned themselves to setting
the goal of finishing in a respectable time in what is a ride of
attrition in many respects, and in the process sharing that challenge
with others from around the country they might not ever otherwise get
to meet.

my original post was to take pride in completing what for me was a goal
i set earlier in the year and to offer reflections to others interested
in the same or similar events. if you would cnosider the s100 not
extensive because it is not at altitude, more power to you. most of
the riders there will be tired afterwards, and glad for the
accomplishment.

"JD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Like I told "czb", drop your name and let's see some race results.

JD

We both know my race results won't impress you no matter what they are
because racing doesn't matter to you.

TM said:

"JD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Like I told "czb", drop your name and let's see some race results.

JD

We both know my race results won't impress you no matter what they are
because racing doesn't matter to you.

Of course they will not impress me, however your creedence may gain
some weight not for your prowess, but for your intestinal fortitude.

JD

czb said:

there
are those who either hate or cannot climb and who shuttlecock up in
cars or jeeps and bomb down.

They use badminton equipment?

--
-BB-
To e-mail me, unmunge my address

BB said:

czb said:

there
are those who either hate or cannot climb and who shuttlecock up in
cars or jeeps and bomb down.

They use badminton equipment?

Either that, or only part of them makes it up the hill unless their
name is Phal.

JD

I don't race but we have one small race here every year. I go to meet other
MTB'ers, we are few and far between in these parts. I like seeing what bikes
are being ridden...drink a few beers and laugh at the guys going OTB on the
rooty sections. They race on my local trails and I have noticed only minimal
damage. In fact they do a little maintenance before hand and fix any downed
trees and such.

I'm not going to fault anyone who enjoys racing...to each his own.

BB said:

czb said:

there
are those who either hate or cannot climb and who shuttlecock up in
cars or jeeps and bomb down.

They use badminton equipment?

Little birdie told me it's a racket...

Bill "here come the men with Annette" S.

G.T. said:

How can a 24 mile climb in a state where the highest mountain is under 6000'
be grueling? What grade is that? .3%?

Greg

The Slickrock Trail probably has 5000' of climbing on it, with the
maximum altitude differential being maybe 500'. (Just WAGs.)

--
--
Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall

Conservative dictionary:
Judicial Activist: n. A judge who tends to rule against your wishes.

"Raptor" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

G.T. said:

How can a 24 mile climb in a state where the highest mountain is under

6000'

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

be grueling? What grade is that? .3%?

Greg

The Slickrock Trail probably has 5000' of climbing on it, with the
maximum altitude differential being maybe 500'. (Just WAGs.)

So that would be a bunch of steep little [censored] not a grueling 12 mile
climb.

Greg

Raptor said:

G.T. said:

How can a 24 mile climb in a state where the highest mountain is under
6000'
be grueling? What grade is that? .3%?

Greg

The Slickrock Trail probably has 5000' of climbing on it, with the
maximum altitude differential being maybe 500'. (Just WAGs.)

As in the Slickrock trail in Moab?

If that's what you're claiming, you must have been
incredibly drunk when you posted that.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

How can a 24 mile climb in a state where the highest mountain is under 6000'
be grueling? What grade is that? .3%?

Greg

The Slickrock Trail probably has 5000' of climbing on it, with the
maximum altitude differential being maybe 500'. (Just WAGs.)

Pfft.

http://www.bikemagic.com/gallery/image.asp?sp=&v=7&uabn=33&Position==1&uin==1150

p e t e f a g e r l i n said:

Raptor said:

G.T. said:

How can a 24 mile climb in a state where the highest mountain is
under 6000'
be grueling? What grade is that? .3%?

Greg

The Slickrock Trail probably has 5000' of climbing on it, with the
maximum altitude differential being maybe 500'. (Just WAGs.)

As in the Slickrock trail in Moab?

If that's what you're claiming, you must have been incredibly drunk when
you posted that.

Okay, I missed the part about the climb being 24 miles long. Any trail
climb that long on this planet is going to be pretty flat.

But what's wrong with my Slickrock WAGs? I've never looked at a topo map
of the place.

--
--
Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall

Conservative dictionary:
Judicial Activist: n. A judge who tends to rule against your wishes.

Quoted message said:

czb said:

but to disparage race promoters - who are usually local
bike shops in partnership with manufacturers and who in the process are
often able to open more trails - makes no sense to me. the
overwhelming proportion of people at bike races, whether in west
virginia or utah, are like any other social gathering. what's not to
like? and if it's not your thing, what's the gripe?

Well, in some cases, especially in the SW desert, some racers come
along and turn good singletrack into a six-foot wide path of
destruction, suitable only for 4-wheelers. I've seen pictures.

I have seen decent trails elsewhere turned into mud pits that then go
downhill and have to be permanently closed, because they are no longer
rideable or hikeable. A social gathering is fine - get together ten
folks, go ride around in the woods, have a few beers - good fun. Why
does it have to be a competition? Heck, I like being the last guy up
the trail sometimes.

Even in the places that there is no trail damage, I have seen tons of
trash along the trails afterwards - powerbar wrappers and the like.
So, racing's not my thing, but I've got plenty of gripes about it.
There just aren't many trails that are suitable for racing. And of
those that are, the promoters and sponsors don't seem to be able to
clean up afterwards. (Maybe some do, but I've seen several that were
completely trash-filled.)

I can absolutely see why folks think racing is bad for MTBing. And I'd
mostly agree with them. I wish they'd do it on private land, dedicated
to that kind of thing.

E.P.

I agree with both sides of the debate. It certainly works well with the
few big organised rides that we have around here. The rides are
generally on metalled roads and bulldozer tracks rather than virgin
landscape. They are well organised. There are competition classes and
recreational rider classes. Strict guidelines about rubbish disposal are
given and surprisingly adhered to (perhaps it's the typical Kiwi's
sensitivity to our "clean, green country" image?). The support
vehicles/riders follow along afterwards collecting any rubbish and
flaked out riders on the way.

Most of the organised rides have a social evening/prizegiving with brews
and BBQ's afterwards. I think that they're a great idea. If it's not
your scene, then don't enter. I usually ride alone and I enjoy them for
a change. It's good fun relaxing and meeting other riders in a social
setting after a long ride. Sure, if ALL organised rides trashed the
landscape, [censored] about it. But not all are like that. I don't know
what the fuss is about.
--
Westie

/Users/charlesbuki/Desktop/SM100_Elevation.JPG.jpg

you tell me how the segment between 60-80 more or less looks

czb said:

/Users/charlesbuki/Desktop/SM100_Elevation.JPG.jpg

you tell me how the segment between 60-80 more or less looks

Oh yeh. Posting a link to a directory on your hard drive will show get
to everyone.

--
o-o-o-o Ride-A-Lot o-o-o-o
www.schnauzers.ws

sorry try this.....
http://www.mtntouring.com/mountain/htm/home/page_home.htm

tracksterman said:

http://www.bikemagic.com/gallery/image.asp?sp=&v=7&uabn=33&Position==1&uin==1150

Ah, Pete, you magnificent [censored].

CC

Westie said:

Most of the organised rides have a social evening/prizegiving with brews
and BBQ's afterwards. I think that they're a great idea. If it's not
your scene, then don't enter. I usually ride alone and I enjoy them for
a change. It's good fun relaxing and meeting other riders in a social
setting after a long ride. Sure, if ALL organised rides trashed the
landscape, [censored] about it. But not all are like that. I don't know
what the fuss is about.

It's not about the social part. You don't need to have a race to have
a good group ride. I was told of an Idaho ride in which all the
participants had a great time, rode some fun trail, got together
afterwards for food and brew, and then watched some MTB video.

AIUI, nobody raced anyone else during this social event. No trails
were damaged, and no litter was left behind. The fuss is about damaged
trails and trash left behind, both by the riders and the promoters
(course markers, etc.) You Kiwis may do a better job of it, and that's
to your credit. If all the races around these parts were like that,
I'd have no problem. After all, it's in human nature to compete - we
have lawnmower races over here, fer gawd sake.

Social long ride - good.

Tearing up the landscape and leaving a mess - bad.

E.P.