LA slamming

Quoted message said:

Stop slamming LA for only preparing for the Tour and be thankful that he

has

Quoted message said:

made alot more people a little more aware that cycling isn't for lycra

clad

Quoted message said:

[censored]'s!

Whether he wins six or not next year. I'd love to see him trying to compete in a few classics (other
than Amstel Gold) or another Grand Tour. I doubt that he ever would, but it would be a great way of
thanking the sport.

I'm sure Indurain always promised to ride a final Vuelta before he retired, but I don't think he
ever did....

"Stephen Ferguson" <[email hidden]> wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

I'm sure Indurain always promised to ride a final Vuelta before he retired, but I don't think he
ever did....

They _all_ promise to do it, but few do. Indurain, like many others, said he would ride some
classics, and he didn't. It is understandable. What people forget is that cycling is such a
morale-centric sport that when the morale goes -- usually through a major lache in a Grand Tour, a
la Indurain at La Plagne in 1996 -- the will to race goes with it.

"Stephen Ferguson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Stop slamming LA for only preparing for the Tour and be thankful that he

has

Quoted message said:

made alot more people a little more aware that cycling isn't for lycra

clad

Quoted message said:

[censored]'s!

Whether he wins six or not next year. I'd love to see him trying to

compete

Quoted message said:

in a few classics (other than Amstel Gold) or another Grand Tour. I doubt

that

Quoted message said:

he ever would, but it would be a great way of thanking the sport.

I'm sure Indurain always promised to ride a final Vuelta before he

retired,

Quoted message said:

but I don't think he ever did....

After failing to win his 6th TdF, Indurain did the Vuelta under pressure from his sponsors.

He did not win and retired that December.

Not true.

1. He did not complain, Banesto forced him to ride that Vuelta (for commercial reasons) although
they knew he was not in shape.
2. Then some teams contacted him and started negotiations in order to sign him for 1997, the
strongest offer coming from ONCE.

The riot of rumors created on the Spanish media and some unfortunate declarations from Banesto's
staff led to the crisis that caused him to take the decision to quit cycling. IMHO during that
period he was surely not quiet, but certainly 100% dignified.

Quoted message said:

As I recall, he complained bitterly about having to ride it and abandoned

on

Quoted message said:

something like the 10th stage. he then immediately started negotiating

with

Quoted message said:

other teams in order to get back at Banesto for requiring him to ride. It

was

Quoted message said:

a pretty graceless period for a man who was deservedly recognized

throughout

Quoted message said:

his career for being quiet and dignified.

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

"Stephen Ferguson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Stop slamming LA for only preparing for the Tour and be thankfulhe

has

Quoted message said:

made alot more people a little more aware that cycling isn't for lycra

clad

Quoted message said:

[censored]'s!

Whether he wins six or not next year. I'd love to see him trying to

compete

Quoted message said:

in a few classics (other than Amstel Gold) or another Grand Tour. I doubt

that

Quoted message said:

he ever would, but it would be a great way of thanking the sport.

I'm sure Indurain always promised to ride a final Vuelta before he

retired,

Quoted message said:

but I don't think he ever did....

After failing to win his 6th TdF, Indurain did the Vuelta under pressure from his sponsors.

He did not win and retired that December.

I beleive Indurain didn't even finish that Vuelta.

Back to the subject of Lance and classics. Why is it that the TDF gets so much world wide attention
and the classics don't? I know, I know... TIOOYK. But, wouldn't it be logical that by Lance riding
in them, they would gain a bit more press and prestige? More prize money and UCI points up for grabs
wouldn't hurt either.

Just my $0.02.

- Boyd S.

In article said:

"Stephen Ferguson" <[email hidden]> wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

I'm sure Indurain always promised to ride a final Vuelta before he retired, but I don't think he
ever did....

They _all_ promise to do it, but few do. Indurain, like many others, said he would ride some
classics, and he didn't. It is understandable. What people forget is that cycling is such a
morale-centric sport that when the morale goes -- usually through a major lache in a Grand Tour, a
la Indurain at La Plagne in 1996 -- the will to race goes with it.

Morale, maximal aerobic output, it's so hard to tell the one from the other.

I daresay that cycling has much more to do with aerobic power output and recovery ability on the
bike than it does morale, and that indeed it is the failure of the former that inevitably betrays GC
riders like Indurain.

--
Ryan Cousineau, [email hidden] sfu.ca~rcousineOpen ↗ President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club

Ryan Cousineau <[email hidden]> wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

I daresay that cycling has much more to do with aerobic power output and recovery ability on the
bike than it does morale, and that indeed it is the failure of the former that inevitably betrays
GC riders like Indurain.

Fair enough -- I think that's true. But I also think that having really suffered through a Tour that
he lost, Indurain, for example, lost morale, despite demonstrating at the 1996 Olympics that his max
aerobic power hadn't waned as much as you might have thought.

SM said:

Do you think he would have raised the profile of the sport worldwide like he has done

He did? I think it only in the US. We (in Aust.) have had the same nightly 1/2 hour prime time
coverage of the Tour since 1990, long before Lance was winning them. Only starting to get more
popular as a few Aussies started winning.

GK

Ryan Cousineau <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

In article said:

"Stephen Ferguson" <[email hidden]> wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

I'm sure Indurain always promised to ride a final Vuelta before he retired, but I don't think
he ever did....

They _all_ promise to do it, but few do. Indurain, like many others, said he would ride some
classics, and he didn't. It is understandable. What people forget is that cycling is such a
morale-centric sport that when the morale goes -- usually through a major lache in a Grand Tour,
a la Indurain at La Plagne in 1996 -- the will to race goes with it.

Morale, maximal aerobic output, it's so hard to tell the one from the other.

I daresay that cycling has much more to do with aerobic power output and recovery ability on the
bike than it does morale, and that indeed it is the failure of the former that inevitably betrays
GC riders like Indurain.

Sports are 90% mental. Why do you think Lance keeps beating Ullrich? Ullrich has the talent to beat
Lance if he were to grind through his offseasons the way Lance does.

Quoted message said:

But, wouldn't it be logical that by Lance riding in them, they would gain

a

Quoted message said:

bit more press and prestige? More prize money and UCI points up for grabs wouldn't hurt either.

Lance always rides Amstel Gold to win but I bet that has very little visiblilty in the US apart from
to hard-core cycling fans.

F.

In article said:

Ryan Cousineau <[email hidden]> wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

I daresay that cycling has much more to do with aerobic power output and recovery ability on the
bike than it does morale, and that indeed it is the failure of the former that inevitably
betrays GC riders like Indurain.

Fair enough -- I think that's true. But I also think that having really suffered through a Tour
that he lost, Indurain, for example, lost morale, despite demonstrating at the 1996 Olympics that
his max aerobic power hadn't waned as much as you might have thought.

Yes, but a one-day Olympics is not the same as a 21-day tour, which is why I noted the importance of
recovery, too. I think what gets the great GC riders is that they haven't lost much of a step in
their maximum power when they retire, but they just can't do it every day for 21 days anymore. The
toll of riding all those stages leaves them unable to respond to younger, stronger riders.

It's remarkable that the GC careers of most of the recent greats ended at almost the same age,
31-32. I suspect that Lance's cancerously enforced time off (to put it in a rather banal fashion)
may have extended his career a little bit. He's just not worn out quite yet.

--
Ryan Cousineau, [email hidden] sfu.ca~rcousineOpen ↗ President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Mr.

Toast) said:

Ryan Cousineau <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, TimBenz <[email hidden]>
wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Morale, maximal aerobic output, it's so hard to tell the one from the other.

I daresay that cycling has much more to do with aerobic power output and recovery ability on the
bike than it does morale, and that indeed it is the failure of the former that inevitably
betrays GC riders like Indurain.

Sports are 90% mental. Why do you think Lance keeps beating Ullrich? Ullrich has the talent to
beat Lance if he were to grind through his offseasons the way Lance does.

I think Lance keeps beating Ullrich because he's better prepared. You can call that mental if you
want, but I call it training, and think it has very little to do with the mentality of the rider,
except for the initial mental commitment to do the training.

For something that makes up (in your estimation) at most 10% of the performance of the
not-very-skill-oriented sport of cycling, natural genetic ability and training seem to account for
an awful lot of the difference between riders.

I mean, given the choice in a bike race of betting on Professor X, mentalist extraordinaire and
leader of the X-Men, or Lance Armstrong shortly after being told his favourite dog has died and his
wife has left him again, I'm betting on the guy that has done the training miles and has the massive
VOx capacity.

--
Ryan Cousineau, [email hidden] sfu.ca~rcousineOpen ↗ President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club

Ryan Cousineau <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Morale, maximal aerobic output, it's so hard to tell the one from the other.

You need the morale to be motivated to prepare for races like the Tour and to live and train as a
professional bike racer.

Quoted message said:

I daresay that cycling has much more to do with aerobic power output and recovery ability on the
bike than it does morale, and that indeed it is the failure of the former that inevitably betrays
GC riders like Indurain.

Indurain is an exception since he was still a top bike racer when he retired, as was Hinault, but
because of the money involved now days athletes in many sports compete well past their prime
(Jalabert, Bugno, Fondriest, Lemond). If someone is willing to pay your salary you are justified in
not retiring, but it might hurt your reputation.

-Amit

The tour is hard that's true. But the season is still going on till the end of october. Isn't it
possible for him now to get some rest and to be at a good level for the WC and Lombardy. That's two
months from now. It's sad that he doesn't participate in Hamilton.

Quoted message said:

Whether he wins six or not next year. I'd love to see him trying to compete in a few classics
(other than Amstel Gold) or another Grand Tour. I doubt that he ever would, but it would be a
great way of thanking the sport.

[email hidden] (Mr. Toast) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Ryan Cousineau <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, TimBenz <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Stephen Ferguson" <[email hidden]> wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

> I'm sure Indurain always promised to ride a final Vuelta before he retired, but I don't
> think he ever did....

They _all_ promise to do it, but few do. Indurain, like many others, said he would ride some
classics, and he didn't. It is understandable. What people forget is that cycling is such a
morale-centric sport that when the morale goes -- usually through a major lache in a Grand
Tour, a la Indurain at La Plagne in 1996 -- the will to race goes with it.

Morale, maximal aerobic output, it's so hard to tell the one from the other.

I daresay that cycling has much more to do with aerobic power output and recovery ability on the
bike than it does morale, and that indeed it is the failure of the former that inevitably
betrays GC riders like Indurain.

Sports are 90% mental. Why do you think Lance keeps beating Ullrich? Ullrich has the talent to
beat Lance if he were to grind through his offseasons the way Lance does.

One doesn't get the sense that Ullrich truly "suffered" at any point in the TDF. He seemed to feel
fine after taking 96 seconds from LA in the 1st ITTon stage 12. Mybe if he had pushed himself
harder, he could have gotten another minute, and took the Yellow Jersey. Sure, he would have felt
completely drained, but....

And on the next stage, JU could hardly be bothered to gain time against Armstrong; he just lay low
and nibbled a few seconds at the end. Stage 13 was the time for the big attack. Instead, he waits
until Monday's Luz Ardiden stage, until LA has mostly recovered, and THEN chooses to launch a
premature attack. Had he made that move in the 1st stage of the Pyrenees, I don't think Armstrong
could have kept up. He probably would have gotten major time from LA.

Now, combine Ullrich's talent with Vinokourov's well deserved Coeur de Leon riding aggression,
and you have somebody who will beat Lance.

Since it is more likely that Vinokourov will improve his physical conditioning for next years
TDF, than it is for Ullrich to become more courageous, I think that Vino must be considered to
be the main threat to Lance's winning of a record 6th title.