Two front or back?

"Loft" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm just learning about recumbent trikes. I know I shall have eventually
to try to arrange to try a few out but want to learn all the theory I
possibly can first. What then are the nitty gritty differences between
the delta and tadpole arrangements?

Hmmm. How to summarize?

Tadpole trikes are quite sporty, lending themselves well to deft handling,
which can be quite exciting - even scary - at high speeds. The rider sits
low to the ground, so they are less visible in traffic. Disc brake
equipped tadpoles can actually do a "stoppie" (front wheelie) if you
carelessly grab a handful of brake lever in a quick stop. Most tadpoles
exhibit noticeable pedal steer and brake steer, due to the front-end design,
rider weight distribution and short wheelbase. Mounting/dismounting a
tadpole can be tricky for less-flexible and older riders. A tadpole trike
most resembles a 3-wheeled pedal-driven go kart.

Deltas tend to be designed for touring, commuting, shopping, hauling,
cruising. They tend to be longer, taller and heavier than tadpoles. They
are easier to handle at low speeds; but can tip more easily than tadpoles in
sharp turns. Since delta trikes only have one wheel up front, they don't
brake as powerfully as tadpoles (which may be a good thing). Many delta
designs resemble 3-wheeled CLWB bikes. They are ideal for older riders and
riders with balance issues (inner ear complications, etc).

Neither design takes advantage of the sinuous lean-steering that all
bicycles posess; thus they are somewhat less elegant in the cornering
department. With few exceptions, trikes are heavier and harder to carry
than recumbent bicycles. They are also very expensive, often twice the
price of a comparable recumbent bicycle.

"What Me Worry?" <__@____.___> wrote in message
news:fL1De.186526$xm3.158453@attbi_s21...

Quoted message said:

"Loft" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm just learning about recumbent trikes. I know I shall have eventually
to try to arrange to try a few out but want to learn all the theory I
possibly can first. What then are the nitty gritty differences between
the delta and tadpole arrangements?

Hmmm. How to summarize?

Tadpole trikes are quite sporty, lending themselves well to deft handling,
which can be quite exciting - even scary - at high speeds. The rider sits
low to the ground, so they are less visible in traffic. Disc brake
equipped tadpoles can actually do a "stoppie" (front wheelie) if you
carelessly grab a handful of brake lever in a quick stop. Most tadpoles
exhibit noticeable pedal steer and brake steer, due to the front-end
design, rider weight distribution and short wheelbase.
Mounting/dismounting a tadpole can be tricky for less-flexible and older
riders. A tadpole trike most resembles a 3-wheeled pedal-driven go kart.

Deltas tend to be designed for touring, commuting, shopping, hauling,
cruising. They tend to be longer, taller and heavier than tadpoles. They
are easier to handle at low speeds; but can tip more easily than tadpoles
in sharp turns. Since delta trikes only have one wheel up front, they
don't brake as powerfully as tadpoles (which may be a good thing). Many
delta designs resemble 3-wheeled CLWB bikes. They are ideal for older
riders and riders with balance issues (inner ear complications, etc).

Neither design takes advantage of the sinuous lean-steering that all
bicycles posess; thus they are somewhat less elegant in the cornering
department. With few exceptions, trikes are heavier and harder to carry
than recumbent bicycles. They are also very expensive, often twice the
price of a comparable recumbent bicycle.

Bravo! The best thing I have read about tadpoles and deltas on this
newsgroup in a long time.

The only thing I would add is that deltas have not undergone the high end
experimentation that tadpoles have. There is much potential for a better
delta (sportier and faster) than has ever been realized. Tadpoles are
somewhat over rated and deltas are somewhat under rated. Whether this will
ever change is doubtful. Tadpoles just plain look sexier, and the kind of
guys who will spend $3000. to buy a trike want that sexy look.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

On 07/18/2005 20:22:48 Loft said:

I'm just learning about recumbent trikes. I know I shall have eventually
to try to arrange to try a few out but want to learn all the theory I
possibly can first. What then are the nitty gritty differences between
the delta and tadpole arrangements?

I think you have your answer, tadpoles handle better, deltas can be more
comfortable for general riding, but there is a trade off whichever you
choose, there are very comfortable tadpoles and there are great handling
deltas.

--

Buck

I would rather be out on my Catrike

http://www.catrike.co.uk

What Me Worry? said:

Tadpole trikes are quite sporty

Well, the sporty ones are... ;-) Seriously, if an Anthrotech is
"sporting" then we clearly have different definitions!

Quoted message said:

Neither design takes advantage of the sinuous lean-steering that all
bicycles posess

Not intrinsically, but there are some lean-steer designs out there, and
more appear as time goes by.

Quoted message said:

thus they are somewhat less elegant in the cornering
department.

The rider is generally free to shift their weight to keep the wheels on
the deck, even though the trike itself won't lean. Whether motorcycle
sidecar racers have "less elegant" cornering than their more
conventional cousins is a matter of taste rather than fact, and
similarly for cycles.

Quoted message said:

With few exceptions, trikes are heavier and harder to carry
than recumbent bicycles. They are also very expensive, often twice the
price of a comparable recumbent bicycle.

True as a rule of thumb, though one must be careful about "comparable".
One thing that would put you on a trikes rather than a bike is that
there are some places where having an extra wheel means you can't really
compare one with the other.

As with other aspects of 'bents, I think the degree to which the
designer knows what he's at will probably have more bearing on the end
result than simply does it have one wheel at the back, or at the front.
I think you have to look at specific models designed for the
particular job you want to do.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

"Peter Clinch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What Me Worry? said:

Tadpole trikes are quite sporty

Well, the sporty ones are... ;-) Seriously, if an Anthrotech is
"sporting" then we clearly have different definitions!

Most tadpoles are sportier than most deltas. It was a general statement.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Neither design takes advantage of the sinuous lean-steering that all
bicycles posess

Not intrinsically, but there are some lean-steer designs out there, and
more appear as time goes by.

That will be a welcome change.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

thus they are somewhat less elegant in the cornering department.

The rider is generally free to shift their weight to keep the wheels on
the deck, even though the trike itself won't lean. Whether motorcycle
sidecar racers have "less elegant" cornering than their more conventional
cousins is a matter of taste rather than fact, and similarly for cycles.

If you are very daring, try racing a delta trike on a tight, winding course
against an upright or SWB recumbent bike. The bicycle's propensity for
sinuous curve-carving will eat the delta for lunch in every single corner.
I'd be amazed if the delta could even begin to compete without flipping
over. Tadpoles could be competitive on certain courses against
two-wheelers; but carving through turns is tricky business. The body lean
motion is more intentional than natural, since it is in opposition to the
steering tiller, and requires moving the torso significantly out-of-plane
while still retaining full control of the tiller to keep from veering or
flipping over. Bicycles, conversely, require very little body motion to
produce perfect, sinuous, coordinated turns at high speeds.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

With few exceptions, trikes are heavier and harder to carry than
recumbent bicycles. They are also very expensive, often twice the price
of a comparable recumbent bicycle.

True as a rule of thumb, though one must be careful about "comparable".

All other materials, components and build details being roughly equal,
trikes are always more expensive than bikes. Period. In most cases, they
are at least twice the price.

Quoted message said:

One thing that would put you on a trikes rather than a bike is that there
are some places where having an extra wheel means you can't really compare
one with the other.

Yes, you can. They're both pedal-powered vehicles.

Quoted message said:

As with other aspects of 'bents, I think the degree to which the designer
knows what he's at will probably have more bearing on the end result than
simply does it have one wheel at the back, or at the front. I think you
have to look at specific models designed for the particular job you want
to do.

But there are general characteristics that distinguish each major design,
and which serve to explain the popularity of particular types of delta and
tadpole trikes. For instance: Make a list of race-winning delta trikes.
Then make a list of race-winning tadpoles. Compare the length of each list.
Now, make a list of tall, cargo-oriented tadpoles. Then make a list of
tall, cargo-oriented deltas. See a pattern forming?

[email hidden] wrote...

Gentlemen - thank you so much for taking the trouble to make such
comprehensive replies. I now feel much more knowledgeable than I did. I
was already inclining towards the delta configuration, and am perhaps a
little reinforced in that attitude now. I'm 70+ and ease of getting on
and off is and will become more so a real consideration. The Kettweisel
looks a nice thing - the Lepus probably a little too hefty for my needs
although I'm 6'4" and weigh 220 lbs which is maybe another thing to be
borne carefully in mind. What a lovely thing the new titanium Kettweisel
must be!!! Impossibly expensive of course.

Don't neglect to check out the Tricruiser www.americruiser.com

It is a tadpole configuration but it is very high up and is quite easy to
get into and out of. The build, Sid Gowdy, is a pleasure to deal with. It is
far from high end but it is a pleasure to ride.

It is the trike I use for my daily rider to and from the train station. It
is also the trike that I replace my Sun EZ-3 AL with because I personally
didn't like that way that particular delta handled.

Jeff
"Loft" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] wrote...

Gentlemen - thank you so much for taking the trouble to make such
comprehensive replies. I now feel much more knowledgeable than I did. I
was already inclining towards the delta configuration, and am perhaps a
little reinforced in that attitude now. I'm 70+ and ease of getting on
and off is and will become more so a real consideration. The Kettweisel
looks a nice thing - the Lepus probably a little too hefty for my needs
although I'm 6'4" and weigh 220 lbs which is maybe another thing to be
borne carefully in mind. What a lovely thing the new titanium Kettweisel
must be!!! Impossibly expensive of course.

"What Me Worry?" <__@____.___> wrote in message
news:Ao9De.164846$x96.7479@attbi_s72...

Quoted message said:

"Peter Clinch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What Me Worry? said:

Tadpole trikes are quite sporty

Well, the sporty ones are... ;-) Seriously, if an Anthrotech is
"sporting" then we clearly have different definitions!

Most tadpoles are sportier than most deltas. It was a general statement.

Lots of luck trying to explain to this group what a general statement is all
about. I have been at it for over 3 years now and they still don't get it.
Most on this group only understand very particular and specialized kind of
statements. The UK nuts, of which Peter Clinch of Dundee, Scotland is a
sterling example, are especially prone to this defective mental condition.
[,,,]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

With few exceptions, trikes are heavier and harder to carry than
recumbent bicycles. They are also very expensive, often twice the price
of a comparable recumbent bicycle.

True as a rule of thumb, though one must be careful about "comparable".

All other materials, components and build details being roughly equal,
trikes are always more expensive than bikes. Period. In most cases, they
are at least twice the price.

Whoops! Another general statement which goes right by the likes of Peter
Clinch of Dundee, Scotland. You have to realize his powers for thinking
abstractly about anything and coming to some general conclusions are
severely limited. He is like a child that way.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

One thing that would put you on a trikes rather than a bike is that
there are some places where having an extra wheel means you can't really
compare one with the other.

Yes, you can. They're both pedal-powered vehicles.

Peter Clinch of Dundee, Scotland is incapable of ever comparing one thing
with another. All he ever knows how to do is nit pick. He is a man only for
details, never even having a glimmer of what the big picture might be.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

As with other aspects of 'bents, I think the degree to which the designer
knows what he's at will probably have more bearing on the end result than
simply does it have one wheel at the back, or at the front. I think you
have to look at specific models designed for the particular job you want
to do.

But there are general characteristics that distinguish each major design,
and which serve to explain the popularity of particular types of delta and
tadpole trikes. For instance: Make a list of race-winning delta trikes.
Then make a list of race-winning tadpoles. Compare the length of each
list. Now, make a list of tall, cargo-oriented tadpoles. Then make a list
of tall, cargo-oriented deltas. See a pattern forming?

You are asking Peter Clinch of Dundee, Scotland to think bigger than he is
capable of thinking. He is a Lilliputian and not worth trying to educate.
After all, he is a Medical Physics Officer (whatever the hell that is) and
no doubt thinks he knows everything. He has himself confused with me. Only I
know everything. That is why I am Great.

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota

On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 20:21:14 -0500, "Edward Dolan" <[email hidden]>
wrote:
<snip>

Quoted message said:

Lots of luck trying to explain to this group (stinkbait snipped)

(rough translation)

Here fishy, fishy, fishy...

Don't you hear your name?

I say this thread must trooly be near my domain!

Nice trike thread.

good to see some inelligent conversation in *cough* some of the posts.

One of my co-workers has a friend who just got a Sun EZ3. I suspect
this is her first bike of any kind in at least 30 years.

Score another one for recumbents!

Indiana Mike

"Mike Rice" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 20:21:14 -0500, "Edward Dolan" <[email hidden]>
wrote:
<snip>

Quoted message said:

Lots of luck trying to explain to this group (stinkbait snipped)

[...]

Quoted message said:

good to see some inelligent conversation in *cough* some of the posts.

Yes, it is too bad that an idiot like Peter Clinch of Dundee, Scotland had
to go and ruin a perfectly good thread with his nonsense just because he
cannot distinguish a general statement from a hole in the ground.

Thank God for the Great Ones (like Ed Dolan) who know the difference between
a general statement and a particular statement and is not hesitant to point
out that difference to ARBR numskulls like Peter Clinch of Dundee, Scotland.

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota

In article <[email hidden]>, Buck

Quoted message said:

On 07/18/2005 20:22:48 Loft said:

I'm just learning about recumbent trikes. I know I shall have eventually
to try to arrange to try a few out but want to learn all the theory I
possibly can first. What then are the nitty gritty differences between
the delta and tadpole arrangements?

I think you have your answer, tadpoles handle better, deltas can be more
comfortable for general riding, but there is a trade off whichever you
choose, there are very comfortable tadpoles and there are great handling
deltas.

Deltas are higher off the ground and more visible compared to tadpoles
too.

"Mike Rice" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Here fishy, fishy, fishy...

Aw c'mon Mikey. I just finally got the last hook out of my mouth. Now if I
can figure out a way to get the smell out of my clothing....

I own a Penninger Voyager and so does my wife...

I broke my leg last Aug 6th when I was riding my Rans Stratus and hit
a curb. I was NOT wearing any device to attach my feet to the pedals
and when my heal hit the curb, it came off the pedal, got sucked under
and my was broken..

While recuperating I researched going to a trike. I suffer from the
effects of having Transverse Myelitis and my lower legs and feet are
partially paralyzed. I rode the EZ 3 and a Penninger Traveler and
ordered a Penninger Voyager and,,,,,, I LOVE IT!!!! I chose the
Penninger because it is built MUCH better than the EZ 3.. The
Penninger is built like a watch and built like a tank... I can't walk
very well or for very long and my Penninger lets me go almost
everywhere...

I brought it home and my wife rode it for about 200 feet, turned
around and said "I want one,,, now". 4 days later she took delivery
of her trike and loves it... We try to do at least one 15 - 20 mile
ride a week. When she works on the weekend she rides her trike to work
and takes it inside the building and parks it in back of her in her
cubicle.

The trikes have opened a whole new world of enjoyment for both of
us... For instance, near our house is a road about 5 miles long that
has a river and old trees on one side and old homes and farms on the
other and,,, because of it's location, there is almost no traffic on
it. Last Sunday we went for a ride there, riding at about 5 MPH, side
by side, looking at the leaves turning. We talked to some walkers,
picked up some leaves, looked at some swans, not geese, swans, found a
old deserted factory, watched some people fly fishing, looked at some
beautiful homes and finally talked with and petted two horses... We
rode for about 2 1/2 hours and covered about 10 miles... It was
delightful!!!! We never got off the trikes...

On one of our rides we met a man who was a machinist at a college. I
asked just what a machinist at a college does and he said he worked in
the research department making mechanical devices, usually one of, and
other dies and fixtures. He looked at my trike and then lifted the
front end and looked at the underside. After several minutes he said,
"This was made by a real craftsman,,, Looks like a lot of this was
made on CNC machines. This should last you for ever"...

One last thought,,, order it with Power Grips.. I would't ride
without them...

Any Questions - Just Ask..

Jim Andrews Columbus/Phoenix

Loft said:

[email hidden] wrote...

Gentlemen - thank you so much for taking the trouble to make such
comprehensive replies. I now feel much more knowledgeable than I did. I
was already inclining towards the delta configuration, and am perhaps a
little reinforced in that attitude now. I'm 70+ and ease of getting on
and off is and will become more so a real consideration. The Kettweisel
looks a nice thing - the Lepus probably a little too hefty for my needs
although I'm 6'4" and weigh 220 lbs which is maybe another thing to be
borne carefully in mind. What a lovely thing the new titanium Kettweisel
must be!!! Impossibly expensive of course.

"Jeff Grippe" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

"Mike Rice" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Here fishy, fishy, fishy...

Aw c'mon Mikey. I just finally got the last hook
out of my mouth. Now if I can figure out a way
to get the smell out of my clothing....

Didn't seem to be hooked, just runnin' with the bait,
playin' out his line...

Problem is with continual chumming, the fishin' hole can
become a lot less inviting. Many anglers and fish may
chose to go elsewhere.

Jon Meinecke

"Jon Meinecke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:1121883081.957ecec5477852c55088b1131e0e8ee2@teranews...

Quoted message said:

"Jeff Grippe" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

"Mike Rice" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Here fishy, fishy, fishy...

Aw c'mon Mikey. I just finally got the last hook
out of my mouth. Now if I can figure out a way
to get the smell out of my clothing....

Didn't seem to be hooked, just runnin' with the bait,
playin' out his line...

Problem is with continual chumming, the fishin' hole can
become a lot less inviting. Many anglers and fish may
chose to go elsewhere.

Jon Meinecke

Ed Dolan the Great will always be here to make sure that no one too stupid
goes unchallenged. I have never understood why newsgoups should be given
over to types like Jon Meinecke, Mike Rice and Jeff Grippe when one good
troll like myself can so easily prevent it.

As near as I can figure out all of the three aforementioned characters wear
beards down to their bellies and consequently have wives that regard them as
repulsive - as well they should. If they want their wives to love them and
if they wish to be highly regarded by other members of this group, they will
need to rid themselves of those ugly beards. Or else they will end up like
Larry Varney, a sad old pathetic replica of a Santa Claus.

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota

"Edward Dolan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

As near as I can figure out all of the three aforementioned characters
wear beards down to their bellies and consequently have wives that regard
them as repulsive - as well they should.

It has nothing to do with the beard. I shaved it, remember. Its that damn
Yak Fat (tm) that you recommended. I tried to tell my wife it was your idea
but all she could say was "Ed who?". She doesn't read usenet. I tried to
tell her that you were a virtual god but ever since I put on the Yak Fat
(tm), she has made me sleep outside under the porch. Its a good thing its
summer. Did you know that my sanitation department will only pick up Yak Fat
(tm) twice a year. They consider it a caustic chemical.

If I'm going to start following your advice, Ed, I need you to do better
research and not just say "I heard that...."

Remember the authority that something has when it appears in one of your
posts. You can't be casual about this. You have a reputation to maintain. As
for me, I've got to figure out how to get rid of this Yak Fat (tm) that you
recommended.

Jeff

"Jeff Grippe" <jeff@door7> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Edward Dolan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

As near as I can figure out all of the three aforementioned characters
wear beards down to their bellies and consequently have wives that regard
them as repulsive - as well they should.

It has nothing to do with the beard. I shaved it, remember.

[...]

And about time too. Now get your bearded buddies Jon Meinecke and Mike Rice
to shave their beards too. After you have succeeded with them, you can go to
work on Larry Varney, but I fear he may be a lost cause as he likes to play
a vile evil Santa Claus at Christmas time. There is nothing more repulsive
in this world than a bearded recumbent cyclist.

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota

"Edward Dolan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

There is nothing more repulsive in this world than a bearded recumbent
cyclist.

Well there is you for starters.

"Jeff Grippe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Edward Dolan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

There is nothing more repulsive in this world than a bearded recumbent
cyclist.

Well there is you for starters.

If you wanted to be substantial instead of stupid and add something to the
group you could have gone on about how bearded recumbent cyclists are the
salt of the earth - since you were one until recently. But you are a
juvenile and are lazy besides. You want to take shortcuts. Hurling insults
will get you nothing but the contempt of the group. Before you know it, they
will begin kill filing you.

I have said something of significance to the group. I have told them that
recumbent cyclists who wear beards are jerks. All you have done is tell the
group that you think I am a jerk. What makes you think anyone cares about
that. Not even I care about that.

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota