Pull-Ups vs. Bench Press formula

Quoted message said:

Im 180lbs and can bench quite a bit (I use a bowflex so I dont know
exactly how much it is in free weights), but oddly enough, I cant even
do a single pull-up.

Isnt Bench Pressing and Pull-ups primarily using the same muscle
(tricept)? Why are pull-ups so much harder? Anyone else experience
this?

Your knowledge of anatomy is, to say the least, lacking. Please go to
www.exrx.net and review the exercises and the muscle groups that they
use. That site will provide you with an eye-opening education.

Study it for a few days, come back, and say thank you.

David

"David Cohen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Im 180lbs and can bench quite a bit (I use a bowflex so I dont know
exactly how much it is in free weights), but oddly enough, I cant even
do a single pull-up.

Isnt Bench Pressing and Pull-ups primarily using the same muscle
(tricept)? Why are pull-ups so much harder? Anyone else experience
this?

Your knowledge of anatomy is, to say the least, lacking. Please go to
www.exrx.net and review the exercises and the muscle groups that they
use. That site will provide you with an eye-opening education.

Study it for a few days, come back, and say thank you.

David

Thank you??? Since when?? I read the rules that [censored] keeps trotting
out - Rule#4 subsection 3C "at mfw good manners is a liability:"
Has that changed now?

David said:

"David Cohen" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Im 180lbs and can bench quite a bit (I use a bowflex so I dont know
exactly how much it is in free weights), but oddly enough, I cant even
do a single pull-up.

Isnt Bench Pressing and Pull-ups primarily using the same muscle
(tricept)? Why are pull-ups so much harder? Anyone else experience
this?

Your knowledge of anatomy is, to say the least, lacking. Please go to
www.exrx.net and review the exercises and the muscle groups that they
use. That site will provide you with an eye-opening education.

Study it for a few days, come back, and say thank you.

Thank you??? Since when?? I read the rules that [censored] keeps trotting
out - Rule#4 subsection 3C "at mfw good manners is a liability:"
Has that changed now?

Yes, it has, thank you very much. So, if you wouldn't mind, please be
polite and kind at all times, if it wouldn't be too much trouble, thank
you.

Have a nice day.

David
the polite one, not you

"David Cohen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

David said:

"David Cohen" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] wrote:
> Im 180lbs and can bench quite a bit (I use a bowflex so I dont know
> exactly how much it is in free weights), but oddly enough, I cant

even

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> do a single pull-up.
>
> Isnt Bench Pressing and Pull-ups primarily using the same muscle
> (tricept)? Why are pull-ups so much harder? Anyone else experience
> this?

Your knowledge of anatomy is, to say the least, lacking. Please go to
www.exrx.net and review the exercises and the muscle groups that they
use. That site will provide you with an eye-opening education.

Study it for a few days, come back, and say thank you.

Thank you??? Since when?? I read the rules that [censored] keeps trotting
out - Rule#4 subsection 3C "at mfw good manners is a liability:"
Has that changed now?

Yes, it has, thank you very much. So, if you wouldn't mind, please be
polite and kind at all times, if it wouldn't be too much trouble, thank
you.

Have a nice day.

David
the polite one, not you

Yes I most certainly will. (Soon as I stop laughing).

David
(me, not the one who pulls legs)

Quoted message said:

Isnt Bench Pressing and Pull-ups primarily using the same muscle

No.

(tricept)? No

I am surprised by how many people do not know that muscles only contract or
relax. Bench pressing is a pushing motion; Pull-ups are a pulling motion.
Therefore they cannot both use the same muscles. When you curl/bend your
arm, you use the bicep, when you straighten your arm you use your tricep.
(not spelled "tricept" although many mispronounce it that way)

In addition, although you do use your tricep in the bench press, it is not
the primary muscle, unless you use a very close grip. The primary muscles
are your pectorals (chest muscles). In pull-ups or chin-ups you curl/bend
your arm, so that means you use your bicep. But you also bring your elbow
from away from your body to a point that is closer to your body, and that is
the function of the latissimus dorsi, or simply "lats". In a pull-up, the
only thing your tricep should be doing is relaxing so that your biceps and
lats can do their job without hindrance.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Im 180lbs and can bench quite a bit (I use a bowflex so I dont know
exactly how much it is in free weights), but oddly enough, I cant even
do a single pull-up.

Isnt Bench Pressing and Pull-ups primarily using the same muscle
(tricept)? Why are pull-ups so much harder? Anyone else experience
this?

jeff said:

Quoted message said:

Isnt Bench Pressing and Pull-ups primarily using the same muscle

No.

(tricept)? No

I am surprised by how many people do not know that muscles only contract or
relax. Bench pressing is a pushing motion; Pull-ups are a pulling motion.
Therefore they cannot both use the same muscles. When you curl/bend your
arm, you use the bicep, when you straighten your arm you use your tricep.
(not spelled "tricept" although many mispronounce it that way)

In addition, although you do use your tricep in the bench press, it is not
the primary muscle, unless you use a very close grip. The primary muscles
are your pectorals (chest muscles). In pull-ups or chin-ups you curl/bend
your arm, so that means you use your bicep. But you also bring your elbow
from away from your body to a point that is closer to your body, and that is
the function of the latissimus dorsi, or simply "lats". In a pull-up, the
only thing your tricep should be doing is relaxing so that your biceps and
lats can do their job without hindrance.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Im 180lbs and can bench quite a bit (I use a bowflex so I dont know
exactly how much it is in free weights), but oddly enough, I cant even
do a single pull-up.

Isnt Bench Pressing and Pull-ups primarily using the same muscle
(tricept)? Why are pull-ups so much harder? Anyone else experience
this?

Speaking of pull-ups, I am very chuffed with myself of late. A few
months back I struggled to do one but after spending a bit more time on
rows, pull downs and back stuff and really concentrating on the squeeze,
2 weeks ago I managed 3 then last week 2 sets of 5 and today two sets of
6 and a set of 4 at the end of an upper body session. I had been making
gains in most other areas but not pull-ups and then all of a sudden,
whammy. I just cant weight to progress and then add weight!

Cheers

--
Bob Volkmer
rev@IRC

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Im 180lbs and can bench quite a bit (I use a bowflex so I dont know
exactly how much it is in free weights), but oddly enough, I cant even
do a single pull-up.

Isnt Bench Pressing and Pull-ups primarily using the same muscle
(tricept)? Why are pull-ups so much harder? Anyone else experience
this?

Stop kiding yourself with the Blowflex, get some free weights.

"ATP*" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Im 180lbs and can bench quite a bit (I use a bowflex so I dont know
exactly how much it is in free weights), but oddly enough, I cant even
do a single pull-up.

Isnt Bench Pressing and Pull-ups primarily using the same muscle
(tricept)? Why are pull-ups so much harder? Anyone else experience
this?

Stop kiding yourself with the Blowflex, get some free weights.

that would be kidding

jeff said:

Quoted message said:

Isnt Bench Pressing and Pull-ups primarily using the same muscle

No.

(tricept)? No

I am surprised by how many people do not know that muscles only contract or
relax. Bench pressing is a pushing motion; Pull-ups are a pulling motion.
Therefore they cannot both use the same muscles. When you curl/bend your
arm, you use the bicep, when you straighten your arm you use your tricep.
(not spelled "tricept" although many mispronounce it that way)

Actually muscles generally contract and relax simultaneously. If they
didn't you'd have one hell of a time getting to the fridge to get a
beer.

Quoted message said:

In addition, although you do use your tricep in the bench press, it is not
the primary muscle, unless you use a very close grip. The primary muscles
are your pectorals (chest muscles). In pull-ups or chin-ups you curl/bend
your arm, so that means you use your bicep. But you also bring your elbow
from away from your body to a point that is closer to your body, and that is
the function of the latissimus dorsi, or simply "lats". In a pull-up, the
only thing your tricep should be doing is relaxing so that your biceps and
lats can do their job without hindrance.

If you feel your triceps during pulldowns you'll find that it is
actually gently contracting.

--
Is this thing on?

"Joe Humble" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

jeff said:

Quoted message said:

Isnt Bench Pressing and Pull-ups primarily using the same muscle

No.

(tricept)? No

I am surprised by how many people do not know that muscles only contract

or

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

relax. Bench pressing is a pushing motion; Pull-ups are a pulling

motion.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Therefore they cannot both use the same muscles. When you curl/bend your
arm, you use the bicep, when you straighten your arm you use your tricep.
(not spelled "tricept" although many mispronounce it that way)

Actually muscles generally contract and relax simultaneously. If they
didn't you'd have one hell of a time getting to the fridge to get a
beer.

Quoted message said:

In addition, although you do use your tricep in the bench press, it is

not

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the primary muscle, unless you use a very close grip. The primary

muscles

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

are your pectorals (chest muscles). In pull-ups or chin-ups you

curl/bend

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

your arm, so that means you use your bicep. But you also bring your

elbow

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

from away from your body to a point that is closer to your body, and that

is

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the function of the latissimus dorsi, or simply "lats". In a pull-up,

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

only thing your tricep should be doing is relaxing so that your biceps

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

lats can do their job without hindrance.

If you feel your triceps during pulldowns you'll find that it is
actually gently contracting.

I'm getting confused here. What exactly is a 'pulldown'?

Quoted message said:

--
Is this thing on?

benn686 said:

Im 180lbs and can bench quite a bit (I use a bowflex so I dont know
exactly how much it is in free weights), but oddly enough, I cant even
do a single pull-up.

Isnt Bench Pressing and Pull-ups primarily using the same muscle
(tricept)?

No! Gee, you can't feel the main muscles these exercises work. Maybe
it's bad form or something..

Quoted message said:

Why are pull-ups so much harder?

Your upper back and maybe biceps are weak. Or the bowflex lies.

You need to do some reading.
http://www.exrx.net/Lists/Directory.html
http://www.weighttrainersunited.com/directory.html
http://www.theministryoffitness.com/exercises.htm
http://webster.commnet.edu/grammar/marks/apostrophe.htm

jeff said:

Quoted message said:

Isnt Bench Pressing and Pull-ups primarily using the same muscle
(tricept)? No

I am surprised by how many people do not know that muscles only contract or
relax. Bench pressing is a pushing motion; Pull-ups are a pulling motion.
Therefore they cannot both use the same muscles. When you curl/bend your
arm, you use the bicep, when you straighten your arm you use your tricep.
(not spelled "tricept" although many mispronounce it that way)

That's largely true. But the long head of the tricep crosses the shoulder.
It does have some involvement in pulldown/pullover movements.

Jeff Finlayson said:

jeff said:

Quoted message said:

Isnt Bench Pressing and Pull-ups primarily using the same muscle
(tricept)? No

I am surprised by how many people do not know that muscles only
contract or
relax. Bench pressing is a pushing motion; Pull-ups are a pulling
motion.
Therefore they cannot both use the same muscles. When you curl/bend your
arm, you use the bicep, when you straighten your arm you use your tricep.
(not spelled "tricept" although many mispronounce it that way)

That's largely true. But the long head of the tricep crosses the shoulder.
It does have some involvement in pulldown/pullover movements.

relatively minor, though.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Jeff Finlayson said:

jeff said:

Quoted message said:

Isnt Bench Pressing and Pull-ups primarily using the same muscle
(tricept)? No

I am surprised by how many people do not know that muscles only contract or
relax. Bench pressing is a pushing motion; Pull-ups are a pulling motion.
Therefore they cannot both use the same muscles. When you curl/bend your
arm, you use the bicep, when you straighten your arm you use your tricep.
(not spelled "tricept" although many mispronounce it that way)

That's largely true. But the long head of the tricep crosses the shoulder.
It does have some involvement in pulldown/pullover movements.

Right. Also they work together to create movement at the joint. So a
highly skilled bench presser inhibits activation of the antogonists, for
example. So there is an element of 'involvement' in terms of inhibition.

Movement is complex. Tougher than math. :^)

--
Keith

In article <[email hidden]>,

Joe Humble said:

jeff said:

Quoted message said:

Isnt Bench Pressing and Pull-ups primarily using the same muscle

No.

(tricept)? No

I am surprised by how many people do not know that muscles only contract or
relax. Bench pressing is a pushing motion; Pull-ups are a pulling motion.
Therefore they cannot both use the same muscles. When you curl/bend your
arm, you use the bicep, when you straighten your arm you use your tricep.
(not spelled "tricept" although many mispronounce it that way)

Actually muscles generally contract and relax simultaneously. If they
didn't you'd have one hell of a time getting to the fridge to get a
beer.

Quoted message said:

In addition, although you do use your tricep in the bench press, it is not
the primary muscle, unless you use a very close grip. The primary muscles
are your pectorals (chest muscles). In pull-ups or chin-ups you curl/bend
your arm, so that means you use your bicep. But you also bring your elbow
from away from your body to a point that is closer to your body, and that is
the function of the latissimus dorsi, or simply "lats". In a pull-up, the
only thing your tricep should be doing is relaxing so that your biceps and
lats can do their job without hindrance.

If you feel your triceps during pulldowns you'll find that it is
actually gently contracting.

But someone like a gymnast, due to skill, would have a very, very gentle
contraction of the antogonist. As opposed to the average dude.

--
Keith

In article <[email hidden]>,

David Cohen said:

David said:

"David Cohen" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] wrote:
> Im 180lbs and can bench quite a bit (I use a bowflex so I dont know
> exactly how much it is in free weights), but oddly enough, I cant even
> do a single pull-up.
>
> Isnt Bench Pressing and Pull-ups primarily using the same muscle
> (tricept)? Why are pull-ups so much harder? Anyone else experience
> this?

Your knowledge of anatomy is, to say the least, lacking. Please go to
www.exrx.net and review the exercises and the muscle groups that they
use. That site will provide you with an eye-opening education.

Study it for a few days, come back, and say thank you.

Thank you??? Since when?? I read the rules that [censored] keeps trotting
out - Rule#4 subsection 3C "at mfw good manners is a liability:"
Has that changed now?

Yes, it has, thank you very much. So, if you wouldn't mind, please be
polite and kind at all times, if it wouldn't be too much trouble, thank
you.

Have a nice day.

Are you thinking of moving to Canada?

--
Keith

Hobbes said:

Jeff Finlayson said:

jeff said:

>Isnt Bench Pressing and Pull-ups primarily using the same muscle
> (tricept)? No

I am surprised by how many people do not know that muscles only contract or
relax. Bench pressing is a pushing motion; Pull-ups are a pulling motion.
Therefore they cannot both use the same muscles. When you curl/bend your
arm, you use the bicep, when you straighten your arm you use your tricep.
(not spelled "tricept" although many mispronounce it that way)

That's largely true. But the long head of the tricep crosses the shoulder.
It does have some involvement in pulldown/pullover movements.

Right. Also they work together to create movement at the joint. So a
highly skilled bench presser inhibits activation of the antogonists, for
example. So there is an element of 'involvement' in terms of inhibition.

However, in terms of ballistic lifting, which you now lean toward,
concurrent training of antagonists has been found beneficial to
development of power.

"Hobbes" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

David Cohen said:

David said:

"David Cohen" <[email hidden]> wrote
> [email hidden] wrote:
> > Im 180lbs and can bench quite a bit (I use a bowflex so I dont know
> > exactly how much it is in free weights), but oddly enough, I cant
> > even
> > do a single pull-up.
> >
> > Isnt Bench Pressing and Pull-ups primarily using the same muscle
> > (tricept)? Why are pull-ups so much harder? Anyone else
> > experience
> > this?
>
> Your knowledge of anatomy is, to say the least, lacking. Please go to
> www.exrx.net and review the exercises and the muscle groups that they
> use. That site will provide you with an eye-opening education.
>
> Study it for a few days, come back, and say thank you.

Thank you??? Since when?? I read the rules that [censored] keeps trotting
out - Rule#4 subsection 3C "at mfw good manners is a liability:"
Has that changed now?

Yes, it has, thank you very much. So, if you wouldn't mind, please be
polite and kind at all times, if it wouldn't be too much trouble, thank
you.

Have a nice day.

Are you thinking of moving to Canada?

Thank you for that kind thought, but I believe, if you don't mind me saying
so, that I have moved beyond Canadian nice. Into sort of a Twilight Zone Of
Nice. A Land of Shadow And Substance. Of Things And Ideas. At The Signpost
Up Ahead, Your Next Stop, The Nice Twilight Zone.

David

In article <[email hidden]>,

JMW said:

Hobbes said:

Jeff Finlayson said:

jeff wrote:

>>Isnt Bench Pressing and Pull-ups primarily using the same muscle
>> (tricept)? No
>
> I am surprised by how many people do not know that muscles only contract
> or
> relax. Bench pressing is a pushing motion; Pull-ups are a pulling
> motion.
> Therefore they cannot both use the same muscles. When you curl/bend
> your
> arm, you use the bicep, when you straighten your arm you use your
> tricep.
> (not spelled "tricept" although many mispronounce it that way)

That's largely true. But the long head of the tricep crosses the
shoulder.
It does have some involvement in pulldown/pullover movements.

Right. Also they work together to create movement at the joint. So a
highly skilled bench presser inhibits activation of the antogonists, for
example. So there is an element of 'involvement' in terms of inhibition.

However, in terms of ballistic lifting, which you now lean toward,
concurrent training of antagonists has been found beneficial to
development of power.

I'm not sure what you mean, John. Are you referring to 'balance' - ie.
training the row to assist the bench? If so, is the antogonistic
movement also done ballistically? I hate asking, but are you referencing
a particular study? I haven't come across this, to be honest.

I've seen studies where they find as motor skills increase in a simple,
single joint movement antagonist activation decreases. I've also heard
from speculation by some pretty qualified people that this skill also
occurs in complex movements. And there is one study on the power clean
that appears to support this position.

I have to admit - I can see someone supporting this with the bench
press, but I might question cause and effect. The reality is the back
muscles are quite strongly involved in both stablization and driving off
the chest. So I'm not sure it is the antogonist 'balance' which helps
power in the bench as much as having strong and large lats to drive off
the chest.

Your thoughts?

--
Keith